[KettererE]

I’m thinking of finally switching from shooting in JPEG only to RAW only, using DNG as the format in-camera on my K-7 and then importing into Lightroom 2.6.

I like that DNGs are now compressed in the K-7 and that they have (almost?) all the same info as PEFs. Plus they contain the original/embedded color profile from Pentax and can store the Lightroom development settings in the file rather than in XMP sidecar files like PEFs. I don’t see any major benefits to PEF and these seem like major benefits for DNG.

But I do have several questions about DNGs and Lightroom though:

1. What, if anything, is missing in the DNG from a K-7 that would be in a PEF from a K-7? I’ve read something about DNGs lacking black sites or black pixel information that could be used for color or exposure calibration or something. Is that true with DNGs created by Pentax in camera or is this information only missing when Lightroom converts a PEF to DNG? Is anything else missing or different in out-of-camera DNGs compared to PEFs? Again, just talking K-7 here.

2. Does Lightroom convert or do anything to Pentax-created DNGs from a K-7 when importing or does it just take the files as-is? In other words, does it still use its own DNG converter to get the file into its own specific DNG format and/or does it strip any information from the original Pentax DNG?

3. What is happening with preview images with the DNGs? Is Lightroom using a preview already created by the K-7? Is it using default develop settings and creating its own preview, and if so does it store that in the DNG, replacing what was there? Or is it creating its own and storing in the catalog so therefore other software cannot use the preview? In general, what preview sizes/settings do you recommend?

4. Camera profiles – I like the idea of using the embedded camera profile from the K-7 that is in the DNG…should that really be true to the colors I’d get in an out-of-camera JPEG (with the exception of in-camera settings that are not used in the RAW file like saturation bumps, etc)? I actually like the colors I’m getting with the “Adobe Standard” better a lot of the time…not sure if that profile was custom-created by Adobe for Pentax or specifically for a K-7 or if it is generic for all cameras but it seems to look better sometimes. Any general thoughts there?

Thanks for reading this long post and for any insight you can provide! I’m sure I’ll have follow-up questions!!!

[deejjjaaaa]

1. What, if anything, is missing in the DNG from a K-7 that would be in a PEF from a K-7?

if you are planning to use only LR - nothing, in camera DNG will be as good as in camera PEF (and vice versa) when using Adobe own converters.

I’ve read something about DNGs lacking black sites or black pixel information that could be used for color or exposure calibration or something. Is that true with DNGs created by Pentax in camera or is this information only missing when Lightroom converts a PEF to DNG?

just do not (re)convert in camera DNG - for as long as Adobe does not touch the raw data with its dirty hands the data will be safe... so do not reconvert/convert using Adobe tools and you will be safe.

Is anything else missing or different in out-of-camera DNGs compared to PEFs? Again, just talking K-7 here.

for example DxO does not support any DNG (input), CaptureOne does not support DNG fully (input), Bibble says that they will support in camera DNG, but not anything that was converted by Adobe tools...

2. Does Lightroom convert or do anything to Pentax-created DNGs from a K-7 when importing or does it just take the files as-is? In other words, does it still use its own DNG converter to get the file into its own specific DNG format and/or does it strip any information from the original Pentax DNG?

if it does not today, it can do it silently tomorrow... for that reason you might want for example to keep DNG files in your filesystem and not in LRs database.

3. What is happening with preview images with the DNGs? Is Lightroom using a preview already created by the K-7? Is it using default develop settings and creating its own preview, and if so does it store that in the DNG, replacing what was there? Or is it creating its own and storing in the catalog so therefore other software cannot use the preview? In general, what preview sizes/settings do you recommend?

Adobe tools can replace jpg thumbnail in DNG file (speaking about "non destructive" editing of the raw files... the file itself is surely edited destructively in this case).

4. Camera profiles – I like the idea of using the embedded camera profile from the K-7 that is in the DNG…should that really be true to the colors I’d get in an out-of-camera JPEG (with the exception of in-camera settings that are not used in the RAW file like saturation bumps, etc)? I actually like the colors I’m getting with the “Adobe Standard” better a lot of the time…not sure if that profile was custom-created by Adobe for Pentax or specifically for a K-7 or if it is generic for all cameras but it seems to look better sometimes. Any general thoughts there?

Pentax writes its own profile in its in camera DNG files - you can extract that profile and use it w/ PEF files... profile is the same and not different between in camera DNG files - the same camera model and firmware assumed. "Adobe Standard" profiles are created by Adobe and are camera specific - they just use the same name for all cameras.

[KettererE]

Thanks for the info...

just do not (re)convert in camera DNG - for as long as Adobe does not touch the raw data with its dirty hands the data will be safe... so do not reconvert/convert using Adobe tools and you will be safe.

Where is the setting for this to make sure I am not re-converting? How can I be sure?

From your reply you seem fairly against DNG and Adobe. I sure don't like the high costs of Photoshop CS and yearly upgrades to LR. But I do have more confidence that Adobe and therefore their DNG standard might be around longer than Pentax and PEF. I've got third party codecs for DNG already...not sure I can save or convert to JPEG or TIFF with them but it gives me more comfort knowing I can use any WIC-enabled tools to at least view the files.

I'm most interested in protecting the DNG negatives and only having the XMP info saved to them..without having to do separate backups or copies of these rather large files. I backup everything but I do not want to maintain two separate sets...one touched by LR and one untouched.

[deejjjaaaa]

From your reply you seem fairly against DNG and Adobe.

no, DNG can be useful in some cases... but you should know for example the that the claim about preserving the raw data is a marketing lie... at least so far... it has nothing to do w/ the format itself, but the format means nothing w/o tools... so you can make a decision have that knowledge.

But I do have more confidence that Adobe and therefore their DNG standard might be around longer than Pentax and PEF.

the source code of dcraw is available = access to the formats supported by it will be available

I've got third party codecs for DNG already...not sure I can save or convert to JPEG or TIFF with them but it gives me more comfort knowing I can use any WIC-enabled tools to at least view the files.

the same codecs are available for PEF = Fast Picture Viewer | WIC RAW Codec Pack for Windows 7, Vista and XP

[deejjjaaaa]

How can I be sure?

that is the point - you can't... so close your eyes and just trust Adobe...