[barondla]

The Hds are usb. Like usb because they can be moved computer to computer with no problems. Guess firewire would work the same as long as all computers had firewire port.

At the pace I am shooting will fill approx 750g- 1tb a year. See no point in storing this on internal HD. It will be full & useless in 1-2 years.

No where good enough to build my own computer. About as likely to work as building a pentax K-8! Have very limited computer skills - no formal training. Even if I knew how it would take time to research, buy, assemble it all. Great winter project, if there wasn't a pressing need for storage now!

Tire of the constant change in OS. Have developed B&W film for 20 + years. Tri-X has stayed the same as has HC-110 developer. Once you learn it, you have it. In computers, there are people who only make money by changing every thing constantly. One poster already said W7 is no real improvement over Vista ( most of my computer friends like W7 much better than Vista). So why learn it all over again? Because they make their money changing it - we have no choice.

How is it possible to run XP on new computer? Is it already built in or do you have to find XP some where and install it? Why is XP over in 2014? How can they stop me from using it? Wouldn't all the programs I have still work as they always have? In four years it would be time for another computer any way.
thanks
barondla

[Cloggie_UK]

The Hds are usb. Like usb because they can be moved computer to computer with no problems. Guess firewire would work the same as long as all computers had firewire port.

At the pace I am shooting will fill approx 750g- 1tb a year. See no point in storing this on internal HD. It will be full & useless in 1-2 years.

No where good enough to build my own computer. About as likely to work as building a pentax K-8! Have very limited computer skills - no formal training. Even if I knew how it would take time to research, buy, assemble it all. Great winter project, if there wasn't a pressing need for storage now!

Tire of the constant change in OS. Have developed B&W film for 20 + years. Tri-X has stayed the same as has HC-110 developer. Once you learn it, you have it. In computers, there are people who only make money by changing every thing constantly. One poster already said W7 is no real improvement over Vista ( most of my computer friends like W7 much better than Vista). So why learn it all over again? Because they make their money changing it - we have no choice.

How is it possible to run XP on new computer? Is it already built in or do you have to find XP some where and install it? Why is XP over in 2014? How can they stop me from using it? Wouldn't all the programs I have still work as they always have? In four years it would be time for another computer any way.
thanks
barondla

Building your own computer is not rocket science. It really isn't that difficult and buying your parts like the processor, memory and mobo as a bundle takes a lot of the guess work out as far as compatibility is concerned.

Windows 7 is not much different than Vista so it is not hard to change from Vista to Windows 7. It is definitely not a learning curve. Windows 7 however is what Vista should have been. It is nowhere near the memory hog Vista used to be.

You can run XP on any new computer, no problem but it is beyond me why you'd want to. XP is not over in 2014; they just stop supporting it. You can run it until you are old and grey if you want. Heck, I could still run Windows 3.11 for Workgroups if I wanted to but I don't so I won't

And yes, all your programs would still run as they do today.

[barondla]

Cloggie_UK, beautiful signature image of castle. Computer building isn't for me. Put a Juli@ sound card in the Vista computer. Like to never got it in and working. Changing tubes in the power amp no problem!

Went to look at computers. Saw HP with AMD Athlon II quad core, 6g ram, 1tb HD, 6 usb, 64x, and unfortunately that Nvidea card. Looked pretty nice.

Will talk to computer friend monday or Tuesday. See what he says about old broken XP computer. Looked at internal HDs for it and they are around $80-100 each. Get some extra ram to increase speed ( guessing another $50-100). Pay something for his work. Not sure the old computer is worth it.

Saw a cool external HD that has card slot. Just stick SD card into slot and it automatically copies it. I do love the simplicity of that. Of course I would have no control of where it placed the files. Strike that idea.

thanks
barondla

[Cloggie_UK]

Cloggie_UK, beautiful signature image of castle. Computer building isn't for me. Put a Juli@ sound card in the Vista computer. Like to never got it in and working. Changing tubes in the power amp no problem!

Went to look at computers. Saw HP with AMD Athlon II quad core, 6g ram, 1tb HD, 6 usb, 64x, and unfortunately that Nvidea card. Looked pretty nice.

Will talk to computer friend monday or Tuesday. See what he says about old broken XP computer. Looked at internal HDs for it and they are around $80-100 each. Get some extra ram to increase speed ( guessing another $50-100). Pay something for his work. Not sure the old computer is worth it.

Saw a cool external HD that has card slot. Just stick SD card into slot and it automatically copies it. I do love the simplicity of that. Of course I would have no control of where it placed the files. Strike that idea.

thanks
barondla

Thanks, that is Bodiam Castle just up the road from where I live. It is a 2 image pano if I remember correctly.

Seriously, building a computer is not hard. If you can use a screwdriver, you are good to go so to speak. There are plenty of guides on building computers.

What do you mean by "unfortunately that Nvidia card"?? Of all the graphics cards, I prefer NVidia to ATI.

To be honest, I think you'd be wasting your time trying to patch that old computer. You might get it going again but it is never going to be quick. More RAM is NOT going to speed the computer up that much. Going from 512Mb to 1 or 2Gb is going to make the most difference. Beyond that, you will not really notice a difference.

I don't really understand your obsession with external HD's. They are either USB or Firewire. Regardless, they will be a bottleneck for speed. I'd stick to internal HD's. Should they fill up and you want to upgrade to a larger model, it is easy enough to swap them out. 4 screws, a SATA and SATA Power connector is all it takes to take them out. 5 minute job.

[WMBP]

Building your own computer is not rocket science. It really isn't that difficult and buying your parts like the processor, memory and mobo as a bundle takes a lot of the guess work out as far as compatibility is concerned.

I'm not knocking the idea of building your own system. Not at all. It sounds like a smart way to go.

HOWEVER, to say that it's "not rocket science" is, well, a bit disingenuous. It's kind of an irony, but for rocket scientists, rocket science isn't rocket science. For the rest of us, it is. It reminds me of a nice line in Dylan Thomas's Child's Christmas in Wales, where he's describing the challenge faced by dad who has to put together some toy on Christmas eve. The toy's packaging describes the assembly as "easy." Thomas remarks, "Oh, easy for Leonardo!"

I've done all sorts of upgrades on various laptops and desktop computers - RAM, keyboards, wifi cards, hard disks, etc. But I would not personally know where to begin if I wanted to build my own computer from scratch. I'm entirely sure I could do it. I could probably repair my own car, too, work on my own plumbing, fix my own electrical problems, and sew my own clothes. The question is, would I want to take the trouble that I know it would involve for me to learn enough to feel comfortable with the process. For me the answer is clearly no. I'd rather pay more and get something I can rely on. I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take.

Will

[barondla]

Yes, with enough books, time, and tinkering I could probably build a computer. Might even try it some day when not under the gun to get some thing working. Would rather spend my time riding bicycle, kayaking, listening to music, and shooting pictures. Not looking to make computers another hobby.

What do I hope to gain building a computer? The music server computer project saved me over $2000. I also had a very fine cd player to use in the mean time. Since I don't down load music (hate compressed MP3) the files were ripped from my cds. Nothing I could do wrong to screw them up - computer wise. Digital photo files are much more fragile. If I screw up bad enough could loose the files. The computer I am looking at is only $599. How much can possibly be saved by building one myself? Not that much.

That "darn nvidea card" because out of the box it doesn't do what I need it to do. Transfer files from memory card to hard drive. Know there is a down load fix for that. I live in the boonies. Deer in the front yard, Turkeys running thru the back, etc. The price I pay for this is dial up internet. Probably to slow for this fix. Means having to do it at work one day on high speed internet. However much theoretically better the nvidea is than the ATI doesn't matter, if it doesn't work.

USB HD. I have a 300g, 750g, 2 1Tb HDs. The 300 & 750 are full, the t drives a 3rd of the way. I have approx 25K raw images. To access these I am going to take the computer apart every time to change drives? Don't even see how this could work. Since getting the K20D/K-7 my storage is going up. Am I missing something here? Every pro I have talked to uses external HDs.

Think you are right the XP computer isn't worth saving.
Also want to thank WMBP for your candid advice.
thanks
barondla

[rparmar]

I just built a system and am documenting the process on my blog. That's because it was the first one I have ever put together from scratch, though I have certainly replaced graphics cards and hard drives before.

My needs are different from the OPs, in that I require quite a high-end performer that must also be as quiet as possible.

So far I've posted the introduction and components overview. Two more parts coming, including three dozen photos showing how to assemble the thing step by step.

The system consists of a Core i7 running at 3.2GHz with 6GB RAM, 1.5TB hard drive, a top-notch power supply, EX58-UD5 motherboard, Scythe CPU cooler, designer case from Sweden, the most powerful passive graphics card possible, Windows 7 Professional 64-bit, etc. ran me 1000 pounds sterling (including tax). I can overclock to 4GHz if I want more heat and noise.

An equivalent Mac would have been twice that.

Everything runs pretty well instantaneously and all 8 cores get used, since the OS itself load balances between processes.

One could get away a lot cheaper if silent running and extreme performance were not priorities.

I added a 300GB drive for the OS and will be putting in two 1TB drives I already own, for close to 4 TB total. One drive I will use as an internal backup, plus I have 2TB external.

[Cloggie_UK]

Barondla, I understand where you are coming from.

Building your own computer is not cheaper; far from it. You'd never be able to buy parts at prices large manufacturers can. But the problem with pre-built PC' is that somewhere they will try to cut costs. Also, some parts are propriety and won't be user changeable should things go wrong. Take f.i. Dell: they use their own motherboards. Should something go wrong with the motherboard, you cannot fix it yourself.

The advantage of building your own system is that you learn how things stick together and so be able to fix them. YOU choose your parts and so make no compromises on quality.

Now, as for that NVidia card: I think you are getting your wires crossed here. The NVidia problem they were talking about was about motherboards with an NVidia chipset controller, not NVidia graphics cards. NVidia graphics cards are fine and do not need anything else but the driver that comes with it. Besides, the hotfix to fix the chipset controller is likely a very small file anyway.

I understand now why you use external HD's. In that case, I'd make sure to go for Firewire 800. Much faster than USB. There is however also the option to have hot swap bays in your computer but again this is something you are unlikely to find in a pre-built PC.

[Cloggie_UK]

Robin,

Just read your blog. Very good and informative. I understand where you are coming from needing a quiet PC. I never had those requirements but still like a reasonably quiet system so I opted for very large slow rpm fans with fan controllers so I can turn them full whack should I need to.

I too went for an Intel/Gigabyte combination with Kingston HyperX RAM. For HD's I now only ever use WD and for my OS I use WD Velocityraptor 10k drives. Graphics is an NVidia GTX295 with an aftermarket cooler a) for better cooling and b) less noise. My case has been the same for many years: a Lian-Li aluminium case. Modular and toolless.

You are probably on the ball with £1000. Sounds like a lot but if you compare the specs to an off the shelf system of the same price, I'd say that I know what is in there and only quality components.

[rparmar]

Building your own computer is not cheaper; far from it.

I tried several times to price an equivalent system from a brand name and never came too close. Because of course they need to add a mark-up, and a rather large one too, to cover all their costs.

You are right though that you never know what components are in a branded computer, and these may not be standard. If your PSU blows up in your Dell, you may not be able to get a replacement at your local shop, since they might not be standard ATX form factor.

The advantage of building your own system is that you learn how things stick together and so be able to fix them. YOU choose your parts and so make no compromises on quality.

Right on.

I understand now why you use external HD's. In that case, I'd make sure to go for Firewire 800. Much faster than USB.

In practice though FireWire presents more problems with compatibility, unless you are sure the motherboard has a TI controller. And good luck trying to figure that out from a name brand vendor.

I too went for an Intel/Gigabyte combination with Kingston HyperX RAM. For HD's I now only ever use WD and for my OS I use WD Velocityraptor 10k drives.

Since I am building a system for music, most would recommend the fastest drives possible, something like those raptors. But in practice I have not found drive speed to be a bottleneck. A lot of the advice about fast drives seems to come from a time when drive throughput was a lot slower than today. So, though I purchased a drive that is only 5400 rpm, I am sure it will be fine. This way I save on heat and energy consumption.

You are probably on the ball with £1000. Sounds like a lot but if you compare the specs to an off the shelf system of the same price, I'd say that I know what is in there and only quality components.

And it is way cheaper.

[rparmar]

My third article, on component picks, is now up. As a supplement to this I compared the price of three popular vendor systems. These ranged from £1460 to £1555, 50% more than my build.

[wlachan]

I guess the pricing is pretty much regional and can vary a lot in different countries. Here in Canada, I have found lowend OEM PCs (where I stand ) have become so affordable, building my own are no more cheaper in general. However, the advantage of picking my own hardwares is that I can replace individual parts down the road as I tend to upgrade my PCs gradually over the years till it cannot be done anymore. But to those who just use and replace the whole PCs when the time come, OEM might make more sense.

[barondla]

Rparmar, great info on building a computer. Your writting skills made it clear even to me. Thanks for the tips. So how does the computer sound? With all this work hope you are recording in hirez pcm or dsd.

If I build a computer some day it will likely be a music player. Would love to build a cmp2 like on audioasylumdotcom. Under clocked, fanless, analog powered (no switching supplies), No unneeded functions/software, SSD (no HDs), ac power filtration seperate from analog hifi components, etc. The well tempered computer is also a great site for music computers.

Built my Mono block amps from scratch. Even drilled and tapped the 1" thick aluminum. Had the power transformers custom built - 33lbs each! Amps are 3 ft tall and weigh 220lbs each. I go nuts with construction projects. This is why I try to avoid them.

Cloggie_UK, guess I got confused about the Nvidea. New worry is if its on the board, won't know If I am buying the "problem" or not. Bummer.
thanks
barondla

[Cloggie_UK]

Barondla,

You shouldn't worry too much. Even if you need the patch to sort the problem, it is only 449kb in size so even on a modem it would only take a couple of minutes to download.

Besides, if you were to buy an off the shelf computer from HP or the like, it will probably be patched already. The problem is related to the NVIDIA USB Enhanced Host Controller Interface (EHCI) chipset. I doubt that any of the mainstream manufacturers is not aware of the problem.

[rparmar]

Rparmar, great info on building a computer. Your writting skills made it clear even to me. Thanks for the tips.

Thanks! After going through a long learning process I like nothing more than to save other people some grey hairs.

So how does the computer sound?

Quite quiet but I can get it quieter still by tuning the fans. Unfortunately I am having issues getting SpeedFan to talk to my board properly. But I have a manual fan control knob I can install, which is the next thing to do when I have the time.

With all this work hope you are recording in hirez pcm or dsd.

I generally record at 96KHz and 24 bits when I am using good mics and my FR2-LE on location, or my RME FireFace in the studio. I make do with 44.1KHz at 24 bits in situations when I am using a pocket recorder and/or small hidden mics. I know the frequencies captured won't extend beyond this anyway.

My last major composition was in 8.1 sound, played back from 9 channels of digital 96/24. I have never had to bother with DSD and other delivery formats.

Someday I should find the energy to approximate this mix in 5.1, just so I can press a DVD-Audio disc for people. Otherwise few are going to ever get to hear it. (It was played in concert in September in Ireland and in October in Sweden.)

Built my Mono block amps from scratch. Even drilled and tapped the 1" thick aluminum. Had the power transformers custom built - 33lbs each! Amps are 3 ft tall and weigh 220lbs each. I go nuts with construction projects. This is why I try to avoid them.

I can well imagine why! And I do hope you never have to move.