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02-09-2010, 02:13 PM   #1
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RAW duplicate images - saving as RAW files

The title might look somewhat confusing, but I had posted a question in another thread and I decided that it was best to repost the question here, with a new thread.

I'll explain what I am trying to get at:

I have one RAW image.
I want to have two duplicates of that same image, always in RAW.
Duplicate No.1 ... adjusted with a lighter exposure.
Duplicate No.2 ... adjusted with a darker exposure.

How would I save the original image and both duplicates, after adjustments, always as RAW files, so they all can be stored in a specific folder?
Edit: I forgot to say that I can use both Pentax Camera Util 4 and/or ACR.

Any help would be welcome!

JP

02-09-2010, 02:50 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
The title might look somewhat confusing, but I had posted a question in another thread and I decided that it was best to repost the question here, with a new thread.

I'll explain what I am trying to get at:

I have one RAW image.
I want to have two duplicates of that same image, always in RAW.
Duplicate No.1 ... adjusted with a lighter exposure.
Duplicate No.2 ... adjusted with a darker exposure.

How would I save the original image and both duplicates, after adjustments, always as RAW files, so they all can be stored in a specific folder?
Edit: I forgot to say that I can use both Pentax Camera Util 4 and/or ACR.

Any help would be welcome!

JP
In Lightroom you can simply make virtual copies and apply different settings to these.

But the simplest way, that works always is: duplicate your images beforehand in the Finder (Mac) or Explorere (Win) and then work with those duplicates.

Ben
02-09-2010, 07:30 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
In Lightroom you can simply make virtual copies and apply different settings to these.

But the simplest way, that works always is: duplicate your images beforehand in the Finder (Mac) or Explorere (Win) and then work with those duplicates.

Ben
Hi Ben.

I don't have Lightroom, just CS4.
Not quite what I have in mind though.
I just want to save each RAW file (image), after it has been PP'd with ACR/Pentax Utilities, as a RAW file again.

The way I see your suggestion, is to just copy/paste a RAW file right into the same folder and it will become "copy of_file ...xyz", then work on that duplicate/copy?

JP

EDIT: Sorry Ben; yu were right, I cannot save a processed image from either Pentax Utilities or ACR. I thought there was some way to do this though. I'll look again.

Last edited by jpzk; 02-09-2010 at 07:36 PM. Reason: Added a P.S. note
02-09-2010, 07:55 PM   #4
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OK .... I got some info but it is very complex in ACR ... have to save RAW settings in ACR, etc .... blah, blah ....
I'll find another way to do this.

JP

02-09-2010, 09:13 PM   #5
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JP why do you want to do it? What is the final objective?
02-09-2010, 10:15 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
I just want to save each RAW file (image), after it has been PP'd with ACR/Pentax Utilities, as a RAW file again.
No such thing. No program ever lets you save as RAW. RAW is RAW - what came from the camera, period. Many programs will automatically save the processng settings you used for each file, so the next time you visit that file it can re-apply those same settings and show you your image just as you left it - creating the *illusion* that it actually updated the RAW data. But it's just an illusion - the RAW data is *never* modified in any way.
02-10-2010, 02:19 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
No such thing. No program ever lets you save as RAW. RAW is RAW - what came from the camera, period. Many programs will automatically save the processng settings you used for each file, so the next time you visit that file it can re-apply those same settings and show you your image just as you left it - creating the *illusion* that it actually updated the RAW data. But it's just an illusion - the RAW data is *never* modified in any way.
In Lightroom you can have at least those "virtual copies", which are probably jsut different correction settings saved. But that is very convenient. That way I can have colour and bw versions of the same RAW side by side, still in RAW format and fully editable.

Ben
02-10-2010, 08:18 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
No such thing. No program ever lets you save as RAW. RAW is RAW - what came from the camera, period. Many programs will automatically save the processng settings you used for each file, so the next time you visit that file it can re-apply those same settings and show you your image just as you left it - creating the *illusion* that it actually updated the RAW data. But it's just an illusion - the RAW data is *never* modified in any way.
Thanks Mark.
Got that,

JP

02-10-2010, 08:23 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
JP why do you want to do it? What is the final objective?
That's to "blend" two copies of the same image, but as Mark mentions in a later post, "RAW is RAW", period, and I can fully understand that now. Once you tweak the image and save it, it doesn't save in RAW .... you have the choice: JPEG, TIFF, etc ...
I thought that this would have been possible but ... RAW is RAW!

So, I will just use two copies of one single image and "blend" them. Not HDR, rather a sort of Shadow/Highlights adjustment on each copy, then "blend" them together. This can be done in CS4, I suppose, or easily with Photomatix.

Frankly, I was trying to do the impossible.

JP
02-10-2010, 11:46 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
That's to "blend" two copies of the same image, but as Mark mentions in a later post, "RAW is RAW", period, and I can fully understand that now. Once you tweak the image and save it, it doesn't save in RAW .... you have the choice: JPEG, TIFF, etc ...
I thought that this would have been possible but ... RAW is RAW!

So, I will just use two copies of one single image and "blend" them. Not HDR, rather a sort of Shadow/Highlights adjustment on each copy, then "blend" them together. This can be done in CS4, I suppose, or easily with Photomatix.

Frankly, I was trying to do the impossible.

JP
Double processing. Open the raw image as a smart object after you make the adjustments for the shadows. Copy the layer as a smart object. This breaks the link. You can then edit that layer in Raw. And it doesn't affect the first layer. Create layer mask. Paint on the mask to reveal the highlights. Very simple.

I think I've typed this before. I think I've posted a sample or two
02-10-2010, 01:09 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
In Lightroom you can have at least those "virtual copies", which are probably jsut different correction settings saved. But that is very convenient. That way I can have colour and bw versions of the same RAW side by side, still in RAW format and fully editable.
Yep, LR is a very clever illusionist! With some programs you'd need to make two copies of the RAW file - bit for bit identical, but the program would remember different processing settings for each and create the illusion that you had two different files. You could actually swap out the files behind the program's back and nothing would change - the processing wouldn't follow the files (for PEF, anyhow - it would for DNG since the settings are usually written to the XMp area of the file). LR saves you the trouble of making the copy, and simly presents two different views of the same "physical" file. I suppose you could trick other programs into not needing copies if you used Windows shortcuts or similar "soft" copies to make it think it was dealing with two different files. I just tried it with ACDSee and was unsuccessful, though - changes made to one were applied to another. So I guess it saw through the shortcut. Might be a more clever way around it, I don't know.
02-10-2010, 02:03 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
Double processing. Open the raw image as a smart object after you make the adjustments for the shadows. Copy the layer as a smart object. This breaks the link. You can then edit that layer in Raw. And it doesn't affect the first layer. Create layer mask. Paint on the mask to reveal the highlights. Very simple.

I think I've typed this before. I think I've posted a sample or two
Thanks, I thought I saw this from you, somewhere before.
I appreciate the instruction(s) on how you do this but when I get to try it, it simply doesn' t work.
Of course, keep in mind that I am not knowledgeable enough (no joke) to follow these seemingly very simple steps.
Sorry!

JP
02-10-2010, 02:44 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
In Lightroom you can have at least those "virtual copies", which are probably jsut different correction settings saved. But that is very convenient. That way I can have colour and bw versions of the same RAW side by side, still in RAW format and fully editable.

Ben
I have some images with several virtual copies for cropping, exposure adjustments, general enhancement, etc. I use a virtual copy with +1 stop and another with -1 stop to export for use with Photomatix Highlight/Shadow images, for example. I also have, for those images I have for sale, virtual copies cropped to the various print sizes. 5x7 is not the same as 11x14 which is different from 20x30.
02-10-2010, 04:23 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
I have some images with several virtual copies for cropping, exposure adjustments, general enhancement, etc. I use a virtual copy with +1 stop and another with -1 stop to export for use with Photomatix Highlight/Shadow images, for example. I also have, for those images I have for sale, virtual copies cropped to the various print sizes. 5x7 is not the same as 11x14 which is different from 20x30.
Yes, LR is really a great tool and much more then a simple RAW converter or a simple DAM. It is a good mix, and accordingly the learning curve can be steep, if you want to access all the useful features in the different departments.

Ben
02-11-2010, 11:44 AM   #15
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Well, LR could be a great piece of software, and I tried the trial version, unfortunately, it is not within my budget at this time.
I did solve some of the issues with this blending of two similar images, but only in TIFF. That seems to work well though so I wonder if I should pursue the search for a way to have "virtual copies" of processed RAW files.
Anyway thanks to all for the feedback, much appreciated.

JP
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