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02-27-2010, 10:58 PM   #1
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Camera profiles in Lightroom2 for custom images of Pentax K-7, Wanted !!!

I am using NikonF2, Canon IXY digital and Sigma DP1. This mid february, I obtained my first digital reflex camera Pentax K-7 lens kit !!!

I can treat custom images ( Bright, Natural, Portrait, Landscape, Vibrant, Muted, Monotone prepared by Pentax ) in Lightroom2 (LR) for jpeg files. But for Raw files, I can't. In camera calibration Panel of LR Develop Module, available camera profiles are Adobe Standard camera profile AS and Camera Matched camera profile CM for pef files, and they are AS, Embedded camera profile EMB and CM for dng files. CM seems to be Adobe made to simulate Pentax color image ( perhaps Bright as it is default setting of K-7 ) . EMB seems to be Natural as its setting is symmetric hexagon, i.e., neutral and with no enhancement in color space diagram of custom image setting window of the camera. I confess that these are only my guess!
I once took 7 shots, one for each custom image, with Raw+. I read them into my hard disk and then imported in LR keeping original files location. At first, Raw images seem to represent image setting, Muted is muted and Monotone is monotone. But their preview images change one by one to one identical image. Monotone becomes colored! Jpeg files keep their custom images, as they are processed in camera engine.
I found Mr. Switters' thread (Pentax K-x camera calibration profile (ACR & Lightroom), 02-20-2010 ), he created a custom camera calibration profile ( or DNG camera profile with .dcp extension) for his K-x using Adobe's DNG Profile Editor and a Gretag MacBeth Color Checker. He posted the profile for those who want to try it.

Is anyone who made K-7 camera profile and could kindly offer it ?

I might need Profile Recipe with .dcpr extension, rather than DNG camera profile with .dcp extension, and original 24-patch color checker dng file, and 7 jpeg shots with 7 custom images to make 7 camera profiles. Working with DNG Profile Editor, adjusting colors of dng photo to arrive at color of jpeg 24-patch color photo would not be straight forward. Further control of Contrast and Sharpness is also necessary to make a Preset of custom image.

I found many times those who had problems of this type on K-7 camera profile in LR even in japanese blogs and forum. Adobe prepares many custom image profiles for Nikon and Canon users, but only one camera profile for Pentax users. Some one uses EMB in dng file, or CM in pef file and starts adjusting to arrive his favorite touch. Some one simply uses Pentax digital camera utility. I am thinking about how to obtain the camera profiles for LR. The above procedure seems to me a way to go.
Dual illuminant automatic adjustment using color checker and White balance WB of raw photo may affect resulting profiles. These subjects are to deep for me.

Please give me some comment and suggestion. Thank you.

03-05-2010, 03:12 AM   #2
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I was looking for the same thing; I wanted to be able to see in LR the exact version of a custom image (in my case I wanted a BW image) as created by the camera's processing engine. Short story is that you can't have that in LR, but you can in the Pentax software.

I even downloaded the DNG profile editor and messed around with it. I wasn't able to obtain a BW profile; the image just never looked like a normal BW. I admit I don't understand how the profile editor works, but I just wasn't able to obtain what I wanted and I'm pretty sure it is not really possible, for the reason below:

- the camera's processing engine uses different parameters than LR. Not only are they called differently, but some of them are simply not available; for example, the camera doesn't have a "clarity" parameter. And I am sure that there are parameters used by the camera that LR doesn't use. Finding equivalents is not impossible, I believe, but they will never render the exact same image. That's why there are differences between raw processors.
- even for the parameters that do the same thing in both camera and LR, you have no way of translating them. For example, brightness: how you translate +2 brightness in-camera into LR's brightness scale that runs from -100 to +100 or something like that? I suppose that's not impossible, but you have to be able to write LR plugins.
- then if you overcome the previous two problems, LR will still not match your photo with a profile automatically. You can create a "vivid" profile, let's say, that looks exactly like the in-camera "vivid". However, LR does not recognize that your file is tagged "vivid" and will not apply that profile automatically to your photo. You still have to go through all your photos and apply the profile manually. I suppose this can be solved with an import plugin; LR is able to read all metadata written in a raw file and actions like applying one profile when a certain tag is present should be programmable in a plugin; but I'm not a programmer, I wouldn't know how to do that.

On the other hand, Pentax's software that comes with the camera does exactly that: recognizes the custom image tag, understands all the settings and applies them automatically to any image.
03-06-2010, 04:56 AM   #3
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Dear Mr. dnmtsn',

Thank you very much to your comments. Having posted my thread, I took several Raw+ shots with DNG file format, they covers all Pentax Custom images, i.e. Bright, Natural, Portrait, Landscape, Vivrant, Muted and Monotone. Ligtroom2 develop mode provides 3 camera profiles for camera calibration, i.e., Embedded, Adobe Standard and Camera standard profiles. I worked with LR2 to make jpeg images with some of the above 7x3 combinations from the Raw files. I looked into exif data using EXIF viewer to see how Contrast, Saturation and Sharpness were set in the jpeg files. However EXIF viewer does not give detailed setting, but only Hard, Standard and Soft classifications.

1. It seems that jpeg image color impression is camera profile-dependent. Adobe standard seems to have a slightly larger saturation, Camera standard is somewhere between Adobe standard and Embedded profile.

2. It also seems that jpeg images are independent of original custom image settings for DNG files ( i.e., Bright, Natural, etc.). However the jpeg files seem to keep original exif data setting for Contrast, Saturation and Sharpness!

3. Adobe standard and Camera standard profile settings change Kelvin temperature of Embedded profile. ( for example, Embedded 4800K to 4500K in rainy day shot)

4. Then a question is what custom image the Embedded camera profile corresponds to and/or simulates.

It seems to me that the Embedded profile is consistent with Natural image although a less sharpness might not have been applied.

When I was testig, I felt that some parameters, hidden and inaccessible to us, were working and that the exact reconstruction of Pentax colors was impossible, as you have concluded.

What I can do next is controlling Saturation, Hue, Contrast and Sharpness to find routine settings which simulate the custom images. In this way, I would understand something in color space control and I would be able to enjoy my photo life working in color space.

I do not use Pentax digital camera utility for a while. I have now to treat photofiles from my Sigma DP1, Pentax k-7, Canon IXY 900IS and Scanned files from old NikonF2 films. I would like to work with one software LR2 to treat them all, although Sigma PhotoPro is very interesting because of the charasterics of DP1's sensor and I often use it to compare the results from 2 developpers.

This is what I have been doing and your comments gave me some confirmation on what I felt.

Thanks again and please accept my sincere salutations. Best Regards!
06-21-2010, 04:09 AM   #4
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I don't mean this to sound rude, and I hope it doesn't come off that way, but I don't understand why people who like the in camera processing results are always searching for software that will recreate it. Why not just use the in-camera processed images? If you shoot RAW+, you get the jpeg the way you like it plus a RAW file for later use if needed.

06-30-2010, 01:44 AM   #5
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Dear Mr. GregK8,

Thanks for your comments, which do not seem to sound rude!
I have Sigma DP1 and Pentax K-7. I use Lightroom2 to make library, to develop and to print for image files from the two cameras. However I am always co-using Sigma PhotoPro, as I always shoot RAW with Sigma DP1. With Pentax K-7, I do not use Pentax Digital Camera Utility, partly because I mostly shoot jpeg with Pentax, and also because I prefer to use one single software to arrive at final output print for both cameras.
White balance sometimes becomes very difficult in shooting at night or indoor, where there are multiple-types of lightings co-existing. The situation becomes worse when there is a kinn-byoubu ( folding screen with thin gold foil surface ) aside. In that case I shoot RAW+, but the associated jpeg does not give a good reference. It happens that auto WB gives ‘rougeātre’ image and sometimes with yellow spot partly. Then I wonder if there might be some way that may create Pentax profiles in Lightroom. Nikon and Canon profiles are in Lightroom, but there are not for Pentax. To be, number of Pentax users must increase.

Best regards!

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