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04-16-2010, 10:55 AM   #1
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Anyone using an RGB LED display?

Using the search tool, and enhanced Google search tool, I find very little discussion searching for the terms "RGB LED" , "RGB-LED" or "RGBLED". Therefore, I'll start this thread and ask my questions.

Does anyone use a computer, be it desktop having external Adobe RGB LED screen or laptop with a legit Adobe RBG LED screen, or even desktop with 'pro' CRT that is capable of the full 'legacy' NTSC gamut spectrum? [I say 'legacy NTSC' as I've come to learn the newest NTSC gamut update is closer to sRGB than aRGB]

I'm interested in your experience in PP with it, and printing of images that you'd PP'ed using it.

I have RAW of every photo I've ever taken, which I *think* isn't influenced by whether I set my camera to use sRGB or aRGB; correct me if that isn't only for the JPG output. I [again] *think* if I were to have a screen that has at least 8-bit screen driver hardware that is capable of or very near 100% Adobe RGB | aRGB or even the Legacy NTSC gamut , and that it is calibrated to the Adobe RGB gamut, I can both

a) See more accurate images on the screen in Lightroom, compared to what my eye saw thru the viewfinder.

b) Would have a better experience post processing my images and printing from Lightroom, and expect to more accurately see the output of my Kodak 1400 dyesub printer [8-bit color] match what I see on my screen. [again, with that calibrated]

One example comes to mind that serves as part of the impetus for this question is a series of photos I took a while back of a praying-mantis on a window screen. Having loaded it into my laptop, there was no way I could PP the image to have the entire scene have natural colors, accurate WB, and have the color intensity of green on the screen, that I would see from my eyes while looking at the mantis as it stayed there on the window screen and served as a reference to me to compare to my laptop screen. That is when I really began caring about this, searching and reading on the topic. I came to learn much following, and to understand the issue was that my laptop screen was likely only showing something like 50% of the sRGB [not even aRGB] gamut. From then, I started thinking about all this. I'm at the point now where I want to do something about it, and get a machine capable of showing the widest gamut of colors that can be shown and that my K10D can capture.

Let me also mention, please don't get hung-up on the fact that I mention 'laptop' above. I need it to be a laptop for my specific situation, and not desktop with external monitor. There are laptop options that are capable of 100% aRGB, as few that they may be; I'm quite versed in what they are. So setting that aside, please go ahead and share your experience be it pro CRT or RGB LED of any form. Does having a RGB LED screen enhance your PP experience and give you a better ability to match your screen to your prints? [with the assumption both are calibrated to a common & compliant set of standards]

Thanx much for any & all informed replies.

04-16-2010, 09:58 PM   #2
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Noone yet?

Whell, anyway, for the record... I came upon this amazing post. STICKY: The LCD Thread - AnandTech Forums I'll assume all the info conveyed is actually 100% accurate too.

I'd been spending some time on forum.notebookreview.com , and one of the mods was very helpful with my questions. One of the things I read often in his post was mention of IPS vs TN display, usually with the latter annotate with 'inferior'. From the above, and Wikipedia I'll say, I now realize it's really an IPS display I should be looking to get [or the little known AFFS] in addition to RGB LED backlighting.... Still, that's aside from the point [that I was asking in the previous post]. Just wanted to mention this link. Thought folks might appreciate.
04-16-2010, 11:15 PM   #3
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I've pretty much decided that I am getting a Lenovo W510 once the FHD (1920x1080) screens are back in stock. These are 95% gamut, which means they have greater gamut than aRGB and sRGB, and I think even ProPhotoRGB. If, you are printing to a printer that can handle the color information, then I believe there is an advantage to having such a screen.

However, if you are printing for example in the sRGB or aRGB space, there will be less of an advantage of having this sort of screen. I make prints at Costco which only accepts JPG, so I'm stuck with sRGB. However, I rarely make prints, I usually only post images online (and sRGB is the most popular colorspace on the web), and I'm also colorblind so it doesn't matter so much.
04-17-2010, 01:43 AM   #4
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Well, it really depends what gamut they're talking about... they don't say I don't think. I thought aRGB pretty much equals legacy NTSC. But whether a display is 95% or 120% of the NTSC gamut, it's a difference we're unlikely to notice very often, and either shows far more of the gamut than I've ever used before.

The only thing that turns me off on the 510 is the 15" size; oh, and I think the FHD option is out of stock presently, as I didn't find that option on the customization screen earlier tonight when I was on their site; tho I may be confusing that with the T510... hope not. In any case, Lenovo gives you a lot for the money, plus I get a bit more off with my wife's WorkingAdvantage EPP program. I could have swore I read a glowing review of the 510 a few hours ago. But searching my history the last day, I can't find it. odd.

Then you must have seen the W701 too? That's tempting. Even the W700 is sweet, either of them with an optional watcom tablet option in the palm rest and option for 2nd smaller display that slides out from the primary display; perfect to place the Lightroom image setting panels and use all the rez of the main screen for the image itself. But if I were to get it I probably wouldn't get the piggie-back screen.

I'd been strongly considering a Dell XPS 16, or Dell M17x, or even the M6500 (tho I don't get a discount on that) all w/RGB LED display. Downside however is they are also only TN displays, not IPS. And that's quickly rising in importance to me. With such a huge display, you can't help but span higher viewing angles looking from one side of the screen to the other than you would on a smaller screen. As TN just doesn't provide as uniform color, brightness, and contrast off-angle as IPS, the bigger the screen the more that is amplified. So I'm beginning to talk myself into a HP 8740w with DreamColor 10-bit IPS display... 30-bits of color can show a billion colors. It's pretty much the premiere mobile workstation option right now for digital photo work and I'm having a hard time passing-up the 18% off offer anyone can get right now.

04-17-2010, 09:42 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by krypticide Quote
I've pretty much decided that I am getting a Lenovo W510 once the FHD (1920x1080) screens are back in stock.
This isn't the review I was looking for, but if you haven't seen it already have a look: Lenovo ThinkPad W510 Review
As a non-IPS screen, it behaves incredibly well off angles. This site does a nice job of testing laptops and their forum is highly active and very helpful.

Last edited by m8o; 04-17-2010 at 08:28 PM.
04-19-2010, 02:21 AM   #6
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Keep an eye out for the new NEC PA241W. A really exciting new monitor with very advanced calibration features.

I use the NEC Spectraview Reference 2690 (European version). It has a 12-bit LUT and 107% aRGB. It is indeed a pleasure to use, but be warned - all non-ICC savvy applications look pretty garish!
04-20-2010, 08:39 AM   #7
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I kinda feel like I'm mostly talking to myself as there's only been a few participants, but I'll share anyway. I cannot believe I did this, but I ordered a new HP 8740w!

Highlights are I got the DreamColor display [in light of this thread, was mandatory], selected the ATI card, and upgraded to i7-720 from the i5-520; for only an add'l $160 or so I got a CPU with a Passmark rating of 3240 vs 2474 for the i5-520.... Now that's a bargain. (And if anyone else had been looking at this machine and you think you'd be getting a deal with that 18% online coupon but that doesn't actually work? ....call them. )

Back on topic, the display. I consider myself pretty tech savvy. However I'm ashamed to say, I only just learned over the course of the last few weeks about "display technology". IPS vs. all others, RGB-LED back-lit vs all others. I didn't even know my external HP 2335 is an IPS display. I never really realized that as I move my head around and view the screen to even a 60 degree angle, the colors stay mostly uniform and it just darkened a bit at the furthers reaches. Otherwise puts laptop's screens to shame for uniformity. ...and the 8740w DreamColor is an IPS display (with RGB LED backlighting)! Can't wait for it to arrive. Not having purchased the calibrator for it, I'll just set the profile to sRGB built-in, which is said to be remarkably accurate, and will work with it like that to see how it matches my print outs to start.

Anyway where I'm going with this is, and independent of RGB-LED backlighting I started this thread with, is if you are getting an LCD display try and make sure it is an IPS display. Especially the bigger they are. The way they handle high viewing angles cannot be matched by anything else. Only detriment I know of is some of them don't have as black a black-level as TN display tech or variants of it.


Last edited by m8o; 04-20-2010 at 09:05 AM.
04-23-2010, 02:31 PM   #8
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How did you determine that the W510 display is TN, not IPS?

Recently I've been thinking about the Dell M4500, because the FHD display on the W510 is still out of stock, and the Dell seems to be a couple hundred dollars cheaper.
04-23-2010, 03:22 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by m8o Quote
This isn't the review I was looking for, but if you haven't seen it already have a look: Lenovo ThinkPad W510 Review
That looks incredibly well speced.

QuoteOriginally posted by artobest Quote
Keep an eye out for the new NEC PA241W. A really exciting new monitor with very advanced calibration features.
It's a lot more expensive than their previous model, though, and almost double the Dell U2410. I'm saving up for a monitor but I'd have to get really lucky to afford that!
04-23-2010, 07:02 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by krypticide Quote
How did you determine that the W510 display is TN, not IPS?

Recently I've been thinking about the Dell M4500, because the FHD display on the W510 is still out of stock, and the Dell seems to be a couple hundred dollars cheaper.
I considered that Dell too, well, the M6500. I especially like the screen info Dell provides about the M line... [click "help me choose" on the LCD selection page; can't copy the link] I'm not seeing the M4500 w/TrueLife however. It seems you're going to want the M4400 for TrueLife w/100% gamut [or the big $ M6500].

The screen technology any notebook uses is not an easily arrived at nugget; usually requiring the serial number and working from there is what I was told. Between reviews at notebookreview.com, its related forum and members, or administrator there who do the reviews and often disassemble the machines during it, someone will know the hardware of pretty much most common hardwarde made in maybe the last decade . This statement in the review points to TN: "Viewing angles were average with most colors starting to distort or invert when tilted 15 to 20 degrees forward or backward". It may be one of the variants on TN. But the level of drop-off definitely points to TN or a variant vs IPS, SIPS or AFFS. You can also compare its drop-off at off-angles to Lenovo's own X200, also using an IPS display: Lenovo ThinkPad X200 Tablet Review
Though the X200 doesn't have very saturated color at any angle, it's quite uniform at all angles, which is basically the 'signature' of IPS. Other than that, if the W510 had an IPS display, it would likely be widely disseminated by marketing as it's such a desirable thing to have.

Presently the only laptops I know of currently spec-able w/an IPS display is the 8740w and Lenovo X200.

Funny thing there too. I got in touch w/a HP salesman who offered me $800 worth of discounts on my build. I shared that I just bought it on that forum. A few people IM'ed me about what the deal was and who my rep was as their rep wouldn't budge; they made orders the same day. And the next day? DreamColor2 now is no longer a selectable option, supposedly for probably another month!
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