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05-11-2010, 08:03 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by tenpointnine Quote
Who'd a thunk it?

A thread titled "mac or windows", and it breaks down into bitchy handbag swinging.
Best post of this entire thread... by far!

05-11-2010, 09:47 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by esben Quote
Sorry - I'm just so tired of listening to Macbashing - I use a Mac but I've never felt the urge to bash Windows users... What is it you guys find so provoking?
They feel that Mac fanboys are the worst people in the world, and believe me, they are in fact pretty bad.

But I've met more Microsoft fanboys than I have Mac fanboys (probably has to do with the fact that more people use Windows). Are Mac fanboys worse than Windows fan boys? No not really, they're both as bad as each other. In both cases, the fanboy knows next to nothing about the other platform (no matter how much he/she thinks that he/she does).

So what's the moral of the story? Use Linux? Maybe. Or maybe that fanboys suck no matter what side their on.
05-12-2010, 12:26 PM   #78
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Sorry - I'm triggerHippie

Well I just don't see the problem in somebody liking something....

Actually it I think it is nice - But if by fanboy you mean someone who trashtalks other stuff?

Then I think the term FANboy is not so well chosen to describe what is going on.

I LOVE Snow Leopard, I'm in love with my iPhone, I think Jobs and Ives are pure genius.
I think Richard Dawkins is too - and Sam Harris - And Jim Jarmusch.
I like Star Trek better than Star Wars. I like espresso better than instant.

And I have no problem with people who love something else...
As long as they don't hurt anyone - or spread fear and hatred...
But we are talking about computers.

I get this so often. So now I'm really curious...

I chose Mac Os X over Windows - like I chose Pentax over Nikon Canon etc...

Because it is the better product/solution - for me.

That has got nothing to do with anybody else. I voice my opinion and reasons because the OP
asked - like the other people who contributed - Then the bashers start "to set the record straight" -
We're sharing opinions - Opinions are different - thats what makes them worth something.

I'm not going to apologize - No ones gonna make me

I'm a HUGE XXXXXXXXL Big time FAN of Apple

Please tell me - How is that in any way a problem?

You say they are bad - In what way -
Not knowing about something you donøt use is not bad -
it is natural. And again if it's about people talking without
knowing, it's the wrong word.

PS

If you take a look at the thread and holde the posts up against
the question asked, the mac opponents are the ones talking about
stuff they know little or absolutely nothing about or they talk
about the subject in a way that bears no relevance to the OP.

So please live and let live - Love and let love

Fan (person) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
05-12-2010, 12:46 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
... A Mac was the best choice. (Though I almost tore out my hair with some of the limitations and wished for that LINUX machine instead!)
I assume you are aware that OSX is UNIX certified? Having installed my first Linux in 1995 and using it as a desktop for a long time, I found myself right at home with OSX. Open a bash shell provided and go for it. There is a lot under the hood in that OS hidden from the average user. You even have an Apache HTTP server running in it by default. You can install Fink and bring in all kinds of "Linux tools" recompiled for OSX.

05-12-2010, 01:50 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by esben Quote
I'm a HUGE XXXXXXXXL Big time FAN of Apple

Please tell me - How is that in any way a problem?
A line needs to be drawn between selling and advising. It isn't that people like products that is the issue, it is that they like the products enough to not provide a balanced view of what the product excels at and where it falls down. Advice is communicating the all facts, good and bad, so the person can determine if the product is a good fit for what they want or not. A lot of people cross the line into selling when they are asked to give their opinion about a product. They do this without even being aware of it.

The other issue when dealing with advice about technical products is being honest about skill levels. When we are really familiar with a product, we forget and sometimes can't judge how hard something can be for someone else. Our view of things really gets screwed when we have been through multiple generations of a product and internalize a lot of information. We get accustomed to how a company thinks about its products and this helps to decipher new products in the company's product line with ease.

People that are so sure of any product that they gush over it, pretty much means I stop paying attention. Same with people bad mouthing products. Neither really tells you want you want to know about the product or products, just the users experience with it.

Thank you
Russell

Last edited by Russell-Evans; 05-14-2010 at 07:40 PM.
05-13-2010, 09:53 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by esben Quote
Well I just don't see the problem in somebody liking something....

Actually it I think it is nice - But if by fanboy you mean someone who trashtalks other stuff?

Then I think the term FANboy is not so well chosen to describe what is going on.

I LOVE Snow Leopard, I'm in love with my iPhone, I think Jobs and Ives are pure genius.
I think Richard Dawkins is too - and Sam Harris - And Jim Jarmusch.
I like Star Trek better than Star Wars. I like espresso better than instant.

And I have no problem with people who love something else...
As long as they don't hurt anyone - or spread fear and hatred...
But we are talking about computers.

I get this so often. So now I'm really curious...

I chose Mac Os X over Windows - like I chose Pentax over Nikon Canon etc...

Because it is the better product/solution - for me.

That has got nothing to do with anybody else. I voice my opinion and reasons because the OP
asked - like the other people who contributed - Then the bashers start "to set the record straight" -
We're sharing opinions - Opinions are different - thats what makes them worth something.

I'm not going to apologize - No ones gonna make me

I'm a HUGE XXXXXXXXL Big time FAN of Apple

Please tell me - How is that in any way a problem?

You say they are bad - In what way -
Not knowing about something you donøt use is not bad -
it is natural. And again if it's about people talking without
knowing, it's the wrong word.

PS

If you take a look at the thread and holde the posts up against
the question asked, the mac opponents are the ones talking about
stuff they know little or absolutely nothing about or they talk
about the subject in a way that bears no relevance to the OP.

So please live and let live - Love and let love

Fan (person) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I wasn't calling you a fanboy. A typical Microsoft fanboy might say something along the lines of "OMG you use a Mac?!?! What f**king a n00b. My Alienware pwns your n00b Mac! RIGHT CLICK!!!!!!!!1111!"

The typical Mac fanboy might reply "Shut up n00b. Your puter always crahshes and gets viruses. Steeeve Jobs > Bill Gate$. Micro$oft steals EVERYTHING!!!11111"

I haven't yet seen you engage in such behavior, so I would think that you aren't a fanboy.
05-14-2010, 11:20 AM   #82
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I chose Mac 5 years ago after several years of using Windows. I think most people fail to realize that many Mac users already have Windows experience.

Anyhow, I did so because I was bored with Windows and was tired of trying to keep on top of virus updates and the number of pop-up windows I saw, even though I'm fully aware of how to disable them; they just annoyed me to death. I just wanted to log in and do my thing, not continually spend time maintaining and repairing and updating. So it's not like my Windows machines blew up or anything (although freeze-ups and BSOD's were common), I just wanted a change.

5 years later my PowerPC Mini is still running like a top, albeit slower when trying to process RAW files or apply a change in Photoshop. I've immensely enjoyed NEVER having to worry about viruses because I've never had a problem with one even if one lurks on my system (PC viruses can be on a Mac, but they can't run on them). And I can log in and do my thing without wasting time taking care of distractions. I think to myself, 'If my 1.42 GHz PPC Mac Mini with 1GB RAM works this well, I can't wait to try an Intel Mac with dual cores and 8GB of RAM!"

So am I a Mac "fanboy"? In some ways yes, in others no. I'm tired of the nearly dozen or so friends and relatives who've switched to Mac asking me for help. Taking a beginner course on Windows is available at nearly every local library or community college, but not so with Mac. To get taught one-on-one about your new Mac you'll have trouble finding it, and thus the burden lies on people like me.

If you've never used a computer before, you'll have a learning curve with either one. That said, get a Mac!!!!! Just kidding: as others have wisely suggested, go to an Apple Store or, failing that, find a friend who will let you try one hands-on. But don't just tinker, really try to ask the hard questions. For that matter, learn all you can about Windows 7 to see if it's right for you or not. In any case, my transition to Mac was much easier because I already had much experience with computers. A computing virgin will have struggles learning both systems.

I personally don't advocate "Mac only" any more. If too many more people switch to Mac, I'm concerned that virus threats will become more common and one of them might actually succeed. Therefore, give Windows a concerted effort first, and THEN and ONLY THEN consider going with Mac. There are far more Windows users, there are far more programs available, and ... oh yeah, I forget. Just give Windows your best shot first.

05-14-2010, 11:33 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by PeteyJ Quote
But I've met more Microsoft fanboys than I have Mac fanboys (probably has to do with the fact that more people use Windows). Are Mac fanboys worse than Windows fan boys? No not really, they're both as bad as each other. In both cases, the fanboy knows next to nothing about the other platform (no matter how much he/she thinks that he/she does).
Very well said about the last point. You'd be surprised at the number of people who've looked at me like I've walked out of a spaceship for using Mac who only had experience with Mac well before the OS X days. When a few have been open-minded enough to check out OS X, they've realized that OS X isn't in the backwoods after all. Even others are surprised that several features of Vista and Windows 7 were in OS X sometimes several years before. However, I'm fully aware that a few features of Windows have been adopted by OS X as well.
05-14-2010, 12:34 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by enoxatnep Quote
I
So am I a Mac "fanboy"? In some ways yes, in others no. I'm tired of the nearly dozen or so friends and relatives who've switched to Mac asking me for help. Taking a beginner course on Windows is available at nearly every local library or community college, but not so with Mac. To get taught one-on-one about your new Mac you'll have trouble finding it, and thus the burden lies on people like me.
I think part of your problem is that there are only 1 Mac Users Groups in Alberta, in Calgary. There is also a Final Cut Users Group and a Unix Users Group. It looks like there is more community support in other parts of the country.

User Group Advisory Board - Find a User Group

Here in the States there is a well established user community that takes some of the support burden off of individuals. There is also One to One available at an Apple Store for $99 when you buy a new Mac.
05-14-2010, 12:41 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I assume you are aware that OSX is UNIX certified? Having installed my first Linux in 1995 and using it as a desktop for a long time, I found myself right at home with OSX. Open a bash shell provided and go for it. There is a lot under the hood in that OS hidden from the average user. You even have an Apache HTTP server running in it by default. You can install Fink and bring in all kinds of "Linux tools" recompiled for OSX.
In fact OS X is the only BSD based OS to become certified UNIX. I prefer Mac Ports over Fink even though Fink came first. I used to have a t-shirt that said "I Fink therefore I can"

The MacPorts Project -- Home
05-14-2010, 03:10 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
In fact OS X is the only BSD based OS to become certified UNIX. I prefer Mac Ports over Fink even though Fink came first. I used to have a t-shirt that said "I Fink therefore I can"

The MacPorts Project -- Home
Probably because there was money behind OS X to get the certification. I think the open source *BSD's really don't have the money to spend getting the certification or would rather spend what they have on something else. I buy OpenBSD for my firewall/router even though I can get it for free just to support them.
05-14-2010, 08:18 PM   #87
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I didn't know that there are people who use Window's not Mac for photography purposes.

Wow. I suppose anything is possible . . . . .
05-14-2010, 10:17 PM   #88
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Quote button doesn't work, multiquote + new reply works ... Weird

QuoteOriginally posted by trishytee Quote
I am in between computers at the moment and I have always used IBM (Windows) but my friend has an Apple and it does have some nice photo options. The president of my camera club says to staywith Windlows as there are some programmes which don't work on apple. Now I know it is oranges and apples, but thought this would be the place to get answers. Any advice???
I don't know what nice photo options you're talking about. iPhoto is quite crappy imho, work for organising/viewing images but not to work with them.

It's not sure you'd lack any programs on mac.


But macs cost more and you don't get your moneys work. Anyway the ways they are still superior is that their sound drivers lag less than normal ones in Windows which make them more popular among musicians and they have builtin calibration profiles in the OS for your screen, printer and also camera I assume so such things should just work once setup I believe. It's my impression Windows doesn't.


However some sound-cards got some other kind of drivers for Windows which make them work just as good, I don't know, and I'm sure there must be some way to calibrate anything from within Windows to.

Personally I would never ever buy a color printer to print photos from so calibration isn't much of a benefit for me. When it comes to the monitor you can just calibrate it by the use of hardware tools or software in both OSes. I like to run mine at 6500k, 2.2 gamma but it's some weird kind of middle ground so maybe that's no good when you work with photos, or it's stored somewhere and open up just ok at some other equipment which want say 5000k, 2.2 gamma.

The default on macs are 1.8 gamma but that's only because their black and white ones used that.



Anyway I don't think macs make a better photo environment longer, for instance I think CS4 or whatever may have been more accelerated on modern PC hardware than on macs. Don't remember in what regards, and I have a mac (which doesn't work because the power adapter is broken and I haven't fixed that in a year ... because I think Apple should fix it for free but I haven't been bothered contacting them) and an OS X hack.



Anyway, my recommendation would just be to get an IPS or e-IPS screen and calibrate it either with a hardware tool or decent software (adobe gamma is one way for Windows.)

Then install Lightroom which imho is somewhat better than Aperture, Aperture is much slower on my mac thanks to Apples retardness of putting to little VRAM in their machines because they are cheap greedy bastards who want to trick you into paying lots for cheap upgrades. Results of Lightroom and Aperture will be similar, usage differs a little but I find Lightroom faster to work with, and Lightroom exist for both macs and Windows.


And if you have a modern PC you can install a hacked version of OS X on it. I run a 10.4.x version on AMD so it's somewhat more troublesome than it is today. But you may run into troubles if you go that route so if you don't feel atleast somewhat comfortable with computers that may not be an option for you.
05-14-2010, 10:28 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Probably because there was money behind OS X to get the certification. I think the open source *BSD's really don't have the money to spend getting the certification or would rather spend what they have on something else. I buy OpenBSD for my firewall/router even though I can get it for free just to support them.
"Microsoft Windows Services for UNIX 3.5 – enables full POSIX compliance for certain Microsoft Windows products. Windows NT-based operating systems up to Windows 2000 had a POSIX layer built into the operating system, and UNIX Services for Windows provided a UNIX-like operating environment. For Windows XP, Windows Services for UNIX must be installed to provide POSIX compatibility. The UNIX Subsystem is built in to the Enterprise and Ultimate editions of Windows Vista, and cannot be added separately to the other editions."

Yepp, just compare:
"
The following, while not officially certified as POSIX compatible, conform in large part:

Some swedish:
"Varumärket UNIX ägs idag av The Open Group, som tillåter operativsystem, oberoende av vilken kod som är grunden, att kalla sig Unix om de uppfyller en mängd kriterier och betalar en licensavgift. Dessa kriterier, kallade The Single UNIX Specification, samt POSIX och standarderna för C (programspråk) har stor betydelse för strävan efter att göra olika Unix-varianter kompatibla."

I guess there is similar text on the english wikipedia.





So yeah, if branding/silly name-games/specifictions is all to go by then maybe Windows + MWSfU / Vista Ultimate is more UNIX than the BSDs


Not that it matters shit. Linux may not be UNIX but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't the most compatible platform for all the "unixish" software around ..




Funny that OpenSolaris complies less .. So, neither OpenSolaris or the BSDs are fully POSIX compliant? Oh well, good we've got Vista... and OS X!
05-14-2010, 10:33 PM   #90
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And yeah, Apple earn credits/market/whatever by having the right to claim that OS X is UNIX.

The developers of FreeBSD probably don't care at all. They know what they use anyway.
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