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07-03-2010, 06:26 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by bigdave69 Quote

Just kind of wondering hangu and wheatfield; have you two done weddings? I guess not, as you both feel that if it is your first time....DONT DO IT! So......
I shot my first wedding in 1972, I shot my most recent one a couple of weeks ago.
I wouldn't consider shooting a wedding as the lead shooter without first apprenticing with another photographer for a season.

07-03-2010, 09:42 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by bigdave69 Quote
I would like to thank most of you, for your kind words of encouragement, especially Alohadave, specialk, and layfsphoto. You are the kind of teachers I admire; no doom-sayers, and "the glass is half empty". Kudos to you all.
(and yes, I can take constructive criticism)
I have done a TON of research on this wedding......TONS.
Have the wedding checklist, and have gone over it TWICE with the bride and groom.
Have taken LOTS of test shots in and around the church, the outdoor location, the reception hall.
Have an accomplished second photographer to help out with the shots I cant get; ie balcony shots etc.
Hangu - LIGHTEN UP, for pete's sake!
The "mutual friend" is the grooms sister, and she HATES the brides guts, so methinks I will still have my "mutual friend" for a long time to come.
And wheatfield - dont think I have to worry too much about the brides mother....she's dead. Unless she comes back to haunt me for eternity, for taking "mediocre" pictures.
Just kind of wondering hangu and wheatfield; have you two done weddings? I guess not, as you both feel that if it is your first time....DONT DO IT! So......
I will post some of the pics on here after the wedding.
Once again....thank-you

Dave
I'm a photo assistant by trade. I'm not a professional photographer by any means but that's a matter of choice rather than a measure of my abilities. I've worked with enough top tier photographers to know that this sounds like a horrible idea.

QuoteQuote:
have you two done weddings? I guess not, as you both feel that if it is your first time....DONT DO IT! So......
Yeah, my telling you to not do your first wedding as the lead photographer somehow translates into: you should never set foot into a wedding with a camera because all weddings are inherently evil and thus should never be documented. DUN DUN DUN!!!

Your friend is in the best position as he gets the experience with none of the expectation or responsibility. If this is his first or second wedding, then he's doing the smart thing.

I get how you're diligently preparing and all but nothing changes the fact that this is your first real wedding. If you seriously think reading a forum and sucking up all this "positive energy" is going to adequately prepare you for this... then go ahead. I wish you the best of luck. I honestly hope you succeed in this endeavor but this doesn't change the fact that it's an awful position to be in.

Since it's clear all you want here is positive reinforcement of a "bad idea" (in your own words, no less), best of luck in everything. My only advice is to get faster glass and a damn good monopod/head. Make sure they give you a decent meal as it will be physically exhausting. Look professional with a tux, rented if you have to and if you can, spend some time with the couple beforehand, perhaps give them an engagement shoot as well. Oh and, draw up a contract, for god's sake, do it.

Also, check out knsaber.com, I personally would not have him photograph my wedding but his style and approach is great. He also offers a ton of advice for the budding wedding photographer. Just for kicks though, you should let him know you'll be doing your first wedding as the lead photographer soon and what his thoughts on that is.
07-03-2010, 10:41 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by bigdave69 Quote
I would like to thank most of you, for your kind words of encouragement, especially Alohadave, specialk, and layfsphoto. You are the kind of teachers I admire; no doom-sayers, and "the glass is half empty". Kudos to you all.
(and yes, I can take constructive criticism)
I have done a TON of research on this wedding......TONS.
Have the wedding checklist, and have gone over it TWICE with the bride and groom.
Have taken LOTS of test shots in and around the church, the outdoor location, the reception hall.
Have an accomplished second photographer to help out with the shots I cant get; ie balcony shots etc.
Hangu - LIGHTEN UP, for pete's sake!
The "mutual friend" is the grooms sister, and she HATES the brides guts, so methinks I will still have my "mutual friend" for a long time to come.
And wheatfield - dont think I have to worry too much about the brides mother....she's dead. Unless she comes back to haunt me for eternity, for taking "mediocre" pictures.
Just kind of wondering hangu and wheatfield; have you two done weddings? I guess not, as you both feel that if it is your first time....DONT DO IT! So......
I will post some of the pics on here after the wedding.
Once again....thank-you

Dave
Good for you. Make me proud, and prove the doomsday people wrong :-)
07-03-2010, 12:09 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by hangu Quote




I get how you're diligently preparing and all but nothing changes the fact that this is your first real wedding. If you seriously think reading a forum and sucking up all this "positive energy" is going to adequately prepare you for this... then go ahead. I wish you the best of luck. I honestly hope you succeed in this endeavor but this doesn't change the fact that it's an awful position to be in.

Since it's clear all you want here is positive reinforcement of a "bad idea" (in your own words, no less), best of luck in everything. My only advice is to get faster glass and a damn good monopod/head. Make sure they give you a decent meal as it will be physically exhausting. Look professional with a tux, rented if you have to and if you can, spend some time with the couple beforehand, perhaps give them an engagement shoot as well. Oh and, draw up a contract, for god's sake, do it.

I suspect that as long as NOTHING goes wrong, he'll do fine.
Unfortunately, in almost 40 years of shooting weddings, I have yet to see one that has nothing go wrong.

Generally that is when the men get separated from the boys.

And yes, even if you are shooting for free, draw up a contract that spells out your liabilities for when the inevitable happens and the whole thing turns into a hot steaming pile of poo.

I don't think anything you will read on the net (or anywhere else) will really prepare you for what you are about to step into.

Hopefully it goes swimmingly for you, and hopefully no one here will have to say "I told you so" in a few weeks.

07-03-2010, 12:28 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I don't think anything you will read on the net (or anywhere else) will really prepare you for what you are about to step into.
That pretty much sums it up, Dave.

It's one afternoon/evening for you, but it's the most important afternoon/evening in those families' entire lives.

Screw it up, and they'll hate you and come after you like nobody's business. Do a good job, and they can still hate you and come after you like nobody's business--because they may not agree.

Understand the point we're trying to make? It's not about being a doomsayer. It's about our past experiences, and you taking on something you're in no way qualified to take on. The fact that you're not getting paid makes the entire situation even nuttier.

Any "normal" couple getting married hires a professional wedding photographer. The fact that they convinced you to do it for nothing for them shows the absurdity of all this--and something very wrong with them.
07-03-2010, 12:43 PM   #36
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One more thing:

Did you know that brides usually like to look beautiful in their wedding shots, and to a lesser extent, grooms like to kind of look handsome?

Now, even if you're lucky and the bride isn't a total beast, do you actually feel confident to shoot her in a totally FLATTERING way, and not just to get a shot? You understand how the FL you choose can make her look bloated and disgusting, and your flash can make her look like she just landed from Mars?

In other words, you've done glamour portraits in the past, correct? To prepare you for this?
07-04-2010, 08:30 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote

Any "normal" couple getting married hires a professional wedding photographer.
I doubt it. Most "normal" couples do not hire professional wedding photographers. Having amazing wedding portraits is just not that important to the majority of the population.

However, if you plan on shooting this like a professional (including a contract, rehersal, posed portraits etc...) and you have no experience to base this on then you "might" be setting yourself up for trouble.

An Analogy...
If a friend came over to my house with his tool box and offered to help me fix my car I would not hold him responsible if we managed to make a wreck out of it.

BUT... if he told me he had a garage and all the tools to rebuild my engine... and he made me sign a contract... and he completely wrecked my car... then I would probably be pissed at him.

The moral of the story is this. Probably the best thing to do would be to offer to "share all your pictures" after the wedding rather than "be their wedding photographer". If you plan to be their wedding photographer then the expectations will go up significantly.

These days everyone has an "uncle bob" at their wedding with $10,000 worth of camera gear and most of their ceremony pictures are probably just fine. But there's a lot more to being a wedding photographer than taking the easy snapshots of the ceremony.

07-06-2010, 06:22 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I shot my first wedding in 1972, I shot my most recent one a couple of weeks ago.
I have been eagerly anticipating reading the OP's reply to this. Do you think I should stop holding my breath? I'm beginning to turn a troubling shade of blue. I may end up having to take some WB adjustment pills.
07-06-2010, 10:26 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
I have been eagerly anticipating reading the OP's reply to this. Do you think I should stop holding my breath? I'm beginning to turn a troubling shade of blue. I may end up having to take some WB adjustment pills.
I respect wedding photography as an art that I will never be capable of doing justice to.

And although I could have gotten many such jobs, I understood my abilities, and temperament enough, to say no thanks.

For my sake, and theirs.
07-06-2010, 04:28 PM   #40
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Just one quick thing:

There's a first time for everything. Even if you work as a photographic assistant for 50 years shooting weddings, there's still going to be a whole different kind of pressure when you lead for the first time. You have to do it eventually, and doing it for free is a great way to start. There is lots of conflicting advice in here: some people say that most couples don't care about pro photography, and some say that brides expect magazine-quality work from a pro-bono first timer.

The truth is that the bride expects you to produce photos better than a point-and-shoot, but that is probably about it. Contrary to popular opinion, most brides are NOT raging psychopaths, and in fact tend to be very sentimental and romantic about the day and will sometimes even overlook glaring technical defects because they connect with the image emotionally. I'm not saying that this gives you a license to take crappy pictures, but I'm saying that nobody is going to be pixel-peeping this stuff. You have to start somewhere, and this is as good a place as any. Any reasonable person is going to understand that there is no implied level of quality in a free job, and it sounds like you've done a good job telling her what she can and can't expect.

It sounds like BigDave has his mind made up, so I don't see the point in trying to dissuade him, or arguing about it. Instead, take the good advice here: include a second shooter. Have a plan and backup plan for every situation. And, make sure that you and the bride understand each other exactly, and it might be good to even get some contracts signed. Plus, that gives you a chance to get model release forms taken care of, so you can freely use the pics in your portfolio going forward.
07-07-2010, 07:36 AM   #41
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still going ahead

I'm sorry, Mr Wheatfield, for not getting back to you sooner.
You can breathe now; the last thing I need is a dead smurf photographer on my hands.
I am glad you have done MANY weddings - lets me know that you know what you are talking about.
On the other hand, it seems that you just like to antagonize someone starting out. Is this what you are like in public? Must be a hell of a fun guy to hang out with. If you are indeed trying to get me depressed, good luck. I never have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
PLEASE dont reply; it bores me.
Eigengrau - I thank you.
You say exactly how I feel; there IS a first time for everything.
That doesnt mean you dont prepare for it. You give it 100%, and if you feel it is way above your head, then you dont do it.
I feel that I have prepared for it quite dilligently, and I know what the b&g expect.
I dont think I will be posting the pics - if they are not of the extreme highest caliber, I think I will be torn to shreads.
Which is a real pity.
I did (and still do) love this site. Just a shame that certain people will crap over anything one does.
Oh well.....
07-07-2010, 08:09 AM   #42
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smurf comment

Mr Wheatfield; after re-reading the posts, I realize it was Mike Cash, not you, who made the "holding breath" comment.
I apologize.
07-07-2010, 09:25 AM   #43
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I think there are differences here that are not realized.
If you know your craft and would do it for art, then you would be fine.
If you would do it for a living, then that is why I hear the doomsayers.
It is because, you are now doing it for a living instead if advancing your craft that it becomes a worry.
I think this is a fine example of not enjoying photography anymore because, it has become a chore/job instead of being a source of pride and craft/art.
I say, the OP would do fine and enjoy it.
The first thing is relax and enjoy what you are doing, even if it proves to be a tough job, don't think of it as a job but an assignment..like a walk in the park looking for and making great images where others might not find it.
Tons of crappy photos from others would be equal to 1 great image of the B&G from you.
That is the artists salvation..it's not about getting a ton of photos, but producing that one great image that they will cherish for a lifetime!
07-07-2010, 12:35 PM   #44
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Be sure to look behind you:

Wedding Photographer FailVideo
07-07-2010, 12:40 PM   #45
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Nice video. Those who are the unlucky type that would soak two bodies and lenses indoors should consider weather sealing for church interiors.
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