[ChatMechant]

What do you think about a way to get a different take on composition- by getting out pen and paper and sketching instead of shooting. has anyone ever done this deliberately? probably reinventing some kinda wheel here, but I did a bike trip through europe once, with no camera, so I sketched and being a pretty lousy artist, I tried to focus on the most obvious elements of the scene. throughout the process of sketching, little things would happen, or details, angles, perspectives would emerge. i was also way more deliberate about walking around to get the best angle, and sat there looking at something for about a thousand times longer than i normally would to take a photo. my girlfriend is a graphic artist, recently getting into photography, and duh, she's already like a master of composition. makes sense.

[Mike Cash]

Using a medium format (or large format) film camera has a similar effect, especially if you are on a limited budget.

[nedski]

Sketching is definely one good way to slow down and really notice what you're seeing.

But as Mike suggests, there are more "photographic" ways of slowing down. A large format camera does this in a number of ways: you can't shoot quickly, you typically only shoot only a few frames, you have to use a tripod, you need to think about exposure, and the image you see through the camera is upside down and backwards. All of these factors really make you look hard at what you're photographing and think about the final image.

If you can't get your hands on a view camera, you can go on a photo walk with some rules: take only one photograph using a tripod, manual focus, manual exposure, spend a minimum of an hour in doing this.

Also study the photographs you think are well-composed, think about what appeals to you, and try to incorporate this into you own work. Sometimes it helps to try to restage a photo you like.

[mickeyobe]

I have taken a sketchbook and pencils (not a pen) instead of a camera. I enjoyed it. I always have a sketch pad and pencils and eraser in my glove compartment.

However, a camera will always be my first choice.

Mickey

[Rupert]

Won't work for me....I did a few sketches over in the P&R Forum and I got thrown out ........on reflection, they weren't all that good. I'll be sticking with my K20D and trying to stay away from drawings........I think you can agree that it is not my area of expertise.....

I did kinda' like the cow......

Regards!

[Ratmagiclady]

One exercise I like to assign students for this kind of purpose is to actually send them around to look at the world through an empty slide mount with one eye: by holding it at different distances, it's somewhat like an unlimited zoom lens.

I'm sure that sketching, though, will help you sort of take apart what things actually translate to in real 3-d, just like any drawing or painting class, really.

[rparmar]

One exercise I like to assign students for this kind of purpose is to actually send them around to look at the world through an empty slide mount

Yep, that's a really good exercise! Sketching is an interesting idea too, though I agree it takes things fairly far from photography.

[rhodopsin]

Is this a trick question? Isn't the sketch composition technique taught in like beginning film-making 101?

[mysticcowboy]

I love to sketch and find that it's greatly helped my photography. Sketching is a lot about value and shape and can educate the eye in that direction. But then any process that slows you down and makes you look instead of just snap will be helpful. Certainly, a sketchbook, and a pen (or a couple of pencils, and an eraser) will be a lot cheaper than shooting medium format.

[Rupert]

Maybe there is something to this sketching.......I sketched a cow....then I shot one! There is little doubt that the one I shot is better than my sketch though......
Regards!
[IMG][/IMG]

[RioRico]

How I learned composition: By osmosis. My Dad was a draftsman and a semi-pro fotog with an excellent compositional eye, so I just learned to see in the way his prints emerged. Sure, I later did coursework in design and tech drawing, and map- and block-print-making, and even (gasp!) photography. But the 'eye' training as a child had the most influence. My younger sisters are both graphic artists, one professional; they seemingly absorbed the same lessons.

There's a divide between 'taking' photos and 'making' photos. I rarely plan ahead now, just look at scenes and decide whether the shapes, forms, textures, shadows, would add up to an eye-grabbing image. Another approach is to storyboard the photos: sketch the scenes you want, and then realize them with whatever models and props are necessary. That is 'making' pictures, not 'taking' them -- a studio process almost.

Another approach is to implant various forms into your consciousness, then to stay alert for such forms to appear in front of you -- basically to 'sketch' mentally, previsualization without a paper trail. I'm now interested in subjects with inappropriate lines in front of them, like a a waterfall framed behind a close chain-link fence. Some fotogs admit to an obsession with automobile door handles, broken headlights, etc -- those are the forms they seek out.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

+1 for using a TLR or a LF view.cam as a sketchpad. I'm too lazy for LF work, but Dad's old Rolleicord and Minolta Autocord, and my Yashicamat 124G, sure were excellent tools for seeing forms and shapes. I sometimes (rarely) do that with an ancient 6x9 folder that has both a groundglass and a rollfilm back. But it's rather easier to use an almost-as-ancient Praktica FX3 135 SLR which, like a TLR, has a groundglass look-down viewscreen.

Any view screen that flips or mirrors the image forces you to look at shapes, not details. You hold a dSLR or P&S up to your eye (or just chimp the screen) and you're looking into a window filled with details, and you think, "Ooooh, just look at all that stuff!!" and you snap the shutter. Oops. The sum of the details adds up to less than the whole. One of the great taglines around here goes something like:

Painting is an additive art; the painter keeps adding paint until a picture is constructed.
Photography is subtractive; the photographer eliminates clutter until only the essence remains.

So study the basics of composition. Divide frames into thirds or quarters or fifths or whatever. Put subjects in the center, or into some quadrant, or at some corner or edge or whatever. Look for strong lines, circular or elliptical, horizontal or vertical or diagonal; I really like strong diagonals. Learn about what images grab the human visual system. Sketch if you can; cheat if you can't. Creating images has no rules, just often-violated guidelines. If it works, do it.

[Marc Sabatella]

What do you think about a way to get a different take on composition- by getting out pen and paper and sketching instead of shooting. has anyone ever done this deliberately? probably reinventing some kinda wheel here

It started the other way around for me - one of the main reasons I got a digital camera in the first place was as a substitute for sketching in preparation for doing a painting on location. I still sketch to prep for painting some, but rarely do to prepare for shooting except in the extremely rare cases where I'm actually setting up a still life or other "artificial" scene.

[ChatMechant]

apologies if a technique like this is really old ground. I never have taken a photo course. more apologies if the following is really old ground as well... i was thinking (first mistake) about these thousands of images on my computer and since most of them are probably mediocre at best, wondering first, why keep all this crap, but mainly, why do I need to even make any mediocre images at all? the democratization of photography thru technology means that millions of people (including me)are running around taking a gazillion pictures of everything, using (relatively) superb equipment that is capable of producing great quality images. ok. cool, so, naturally, the next question I ask myself is well, what the hell is it all for, anyway? i could be doing a million other things(and probably should) why do i feel the need to go out and take pictures that suck? same reason i play guitar. it's because i'm a total ego-maniac, and i want to show everybody my supposedly unique vision of my little world. So, basically, how do you do it? and why? not only how to take (really) great photographs, but also how to really enjoy the process. anybody can see something and go, "hey, that would make a neat picture...click", and that's certainly enjoyable on some level, but to be able to actually make some kind of work of art out of it is really The Thing. I've seen some incredible pictures on this site that I think more than qualify, unfortunately as yet, i don't think i've really been able to pull it off. maybe shoulda taken those photo 101's or whatever

[rhodopsin]

apologies if a technique like this is really old ground. I never have taken a photo course. more apologies if the following is really old ground as well... i was thinking (first mistake) about these thousands of images on my computer and since most of them are probably mediocre at best, wondering first, why keep all this crap, but mainly, why do I need to even make any mediocre images at all? the democratization of photography thru technology means that millions of people (including me)are running around taking a gazillion pictures of everything, using (relatively) superb equipment that is capable of producing great quality images. ok. cool, so, naturally, the next question I ask myself is well, what the hell is it all for, anyway? i could be doing a million other things(and probably should) why do i feel the need to go out and take pictures that suck? same reason i play guitar. it's because i'm a total ego-maniac, and i want to show everybody my supposedly unique vision of my little world. So, basically, how do you do it? and why? not only how to take (really) great photographs, but also how to really enjoy the process. anybody can see something and go, "hey, that would make a neat picture...click", and that's certainly enjoyable on some level, but to be able to actually make some kind of work of art out of it is really The Thing. I've seen some incredible pictures on this site that I think more than qualify, unfortunately as yet, i don't think i've really been able to pull it off. maybe shoulda taken those photo 101's or whatever

Hey, you discovered the technique on your own; there's something to be said about that!

Keep it all, all the 'crap'. You have captured your unique world in every photo. No doubt there are many many jewels, though they may be hidden and mixed with what you now perceive as 'noise'. Seeing the fine work of some others has simply made you more sensitive to the 'noise'.

Learn composition and you'll know how to highlight the gems and bring them into the foreground of attention, where to crop for example. You'll learn to highlight, frame & crop in the viewfinder instead of later.

While the rules of composition are simple and easy, they are not so simple and easy to learn! Einstein's theories are simple; 'everything is relative', for example, yet so profoundly far reaching and comprehensive in application.

Here are links to articles about composition that really helped me, easy to see and understand, that go into much more depth than simple statements about 'framing', 'rule of thirds', etc.:

http://www.animationarchive.org/2006/11/education-fundamentals-of-composition.html

http://www.animationarchive.org/2006/12/education-fundamentals-of-composition.html

[Tamia]

I'm glad I came on this discussion. Since March I've been writing a series on field sketching for paddlers in my weekly column, "In the Same Boat," at Paddling.net, where I encouraged folks to use sketching as way to become better observers. To put a scene or object on paper, you HAVE to really observe it, while you can shoot a picture without much thought.

As photographers, we obviously strive to produce images which are far more than snapshots, but I find that sketching-drawing-watercolor painting (all hobbies of mine) and photography compliment one another. And as a tool for learning to observe, I think that for most people, sketching pips photography.

If anyone's interested in the series, it's called "Eye and Hand" and the first article, where I propose that people give field sketching a try, is called "Practical Art for Paddlers." It's just as appropriate for non-paddlers, too.

Ratmagiclady, using an empty slide mount is a great idea which I'd forgotten about. Thanks for reminding me.