[Oscar1]

On a forum, other than this one, I frequently submit photos from critique. And the members of that forum are very quick, and very happy, to tell me exactly what they think.

A very interesting thing I've found over the years is the way photographs are perceived by photographers and opposed to people who are not photographers.

I can't recall how many times I've submitted a photo on the foum to have it un-mercifully disected. Then, put that photo into a group of photos on a monitor, or in a group of prints, and have it receive more praise than any of the rest of the group.

I've also had the reverse. Photographers rave about the shot, only to have it get barely a look from others.

Go figure

[JeffJS]

Yep. I'm kind of the same way. That is, photos that people rave about in a formal critique, I don't see the magic (beach sunrise and sunset photos for instance). Where I see a great photo worthy of discussion, others don't get the point and largely ignore it. It's all in the mind of the beholder I guess.

[Rupert]

You hit on a truism that many don't want to accept. A good or maybe even great photo is one that draws people to view and touches some common denominator with more than a few viewers. It very often has little to do with technical or artistic value.

In photo Forums we strive to please each other, and are often limited in our own critique by the "rules of photography", when in fact a great shot may fall short in all categories, thus rendering a negative response.

I often print my photos in 5x7 or 8x10 and just lay out a half dozen or so on an empty table where I eat lunch every day, and wait for the response. It surprises me most every time.

Here is one I laid out with an assortment, including some very attractive models.......it beat out everything else......including some nice Squirrel shots!
[IMG][/IMG]
Best Regards!

[TOUGEFC]

The whole preception of photographers vs non-photographers is kind of like a double edge sword.

As photographers when we look at at photo's we look at the compostion, depth of feild, lighting, focus etc...

Where as non-photographers look at photos they mostly just look and care about the subject matter.
Often on facebook i see poor photos posted by people that get lots of comments like "wow great picture" all from the non-photographers but when i look at it i see all the faults.

Dont take critism seriously, especially if its coming from a non-photographer

[stevebrot]

I can't recall how many times I've submitted a photo on the foum to have it un-mercifully disected...

The key is to post one's photos on any of the threads on this section of the forum:

Mini-Challenges, Games, and Photo Stories - PentaxForums.com

For some reason, people generally hold the critique and heap the praise there.


Steve

[Kerrowdown]

I think we photographers are too often wrapped round the axle with all the rules and regs and the technical elements of equipment itself, to actually stand back a see the picture for its own merits.

This is the way non photographers see images, so perhaps the best ones to ask for an opinion would be the the lay folk.

[future_retro]

I've had far too many friends and family members say that I should be a professional photographer and take pictures for a living, I had the common sense to brush them off as starry-eyed and over excited and it was a good thing too.

After reading some books, joining the forum and seeing some work from accomplished photographers and amateurs alike I've grown to almost despise most of my pictures that were so enthusiastically raved about, however for some reason I find it hard not to rave about other peoples pictures like mine were, despite who took them (other than me course )

[Rupert]

It all depends on who you shoot for, and what you expect from yourself. It is hard to look in the new Exclusive Gallery and not admire the work there. But.....if you are shooting for your own pleasure or that of your family, they might not share the same enthusiasm for what is posted there. Everyone is different...just look at all the models of autos on the road.....most all are plenty good...but they are also very different. There is an art to shooting, no doubt, but there is also an art to enjoying. Being too critical of your own work can rob a lot of the joy.....
Best Regards!

[CWyatt]

Being too critical of your own work can rob a lot of the joy.....

I agree with most of what you said, but not this bit. Tough self-evaluation and editing are, in my opinion, very important skills.

[hangu]

You learn to pay attention to the few people whose opinions actually matter. You also learn to listen to yourself and trust your judgement after a while.

The sad truth is that the majority of people on the internet don't really know much about what makes a good photograph.

[mysticcowboy]

You learn to pay attention to the few people whose opinions actually matter. You also learn to listen to yourself and trust your judgement after a while.

The sad truth is that the majority of people on the internet don't really know much about what makes a good photograph.

That's so true.

There's probably a third category that gets confused with competent photographers. That's the wannabes. Somebody has read a couple of articles, or a book and thinks that this turns one magically into a competent photo critic. And, I've seen some so-called photography critique forums that were downright nasty. I've seen others where the only shots that get good reviews are those where the contrast and saturation are cranked up to 11 on a 1-10 scale. Or you get someone who's attitude is, oh WOW, I bought a DSLR. I'm now a pro photographer!!!!!!!!!!

On the other hand, non-photographers aren't judging the photo so much as the subject. I've posted somewhat blurry cat or flower photos that people gush over. Yes, the flower is pretty. Yes the kitten is adorable. The photos as photos were simple snapshots.

Good critiquing is terribly helpful. I've improved by taking the advice of people I respect. Some of those are photographers. Some are painters or other visual artists. I will tell you that before I take your critique seriously, I want to see your work and like it. And, I also know that a pro will recognize that we all have an individual vision. Technique and technical skills can be evaluated. Vision can't.

[Ash]

Some of this has been mentioned in the Exclusive forum gallery thread - any measure of a photo's excellence is dependent on personal subjectivity. Whether it comes from an experienced photog or a lay person, it's still opinion. What makes the difference is the emphasis the photog places on the perception of his/her work - be that from the expert or the amateur.

Though to me, any photo could be captured better - lighting, pose, setting, background, DoF, composition, etc. - so many places to improve on. And that's what makes photography such a fine vocation - the continual striving for perfection is never satisfied, but offers a journey always enjoyable.

[mysticcowboy]

You, know Ash, that's an interesting way of looking at photos. I agree that most photos could be improved upon. Mine certainly can. And, sometimes it's the imperfect image that has the most juice or soul. Like with Ed-in-Georgia's example, just right is so subjective.

It may be that in holding the tension between striving for better that is always possible. and knowing when good enough is good enough is part of what helps us improve.

[RioRico]

I've been shooting a long, long time. (I think 55-odd years with cameras qualifies there, not to mention growing up in my dad's small darkroom.) I've been deeply immersed in art and design since childhood. I've studied this stuff, formally and otherwise. I think I have some idea of how images work.

Photography was my job for a while. It's been for my pleasure always. (Except for those damn eBay product shots...) When it was my job, I had demanding clients. (I was in the US Army.) I was published worldwide. I listened to clients, and to other photographers, and to naive critics -- and I always had a very clear view of what was wanted and needed.

Now I shoot for ME, and occasionally I sell something. I don't enter contests. I don't post much online. There are technically 'bad' shots that I've printed and displayed and sold, that receive only abuse from online nit-pickers. Well, f*ck'em. Paying customers trump self-styled critics. Audience satisfaction trumps technical detraction.

To be worthwhile, a photo must communicate something vital and eye-grabbing and heart-grabbing. Beautifully photographed boring crap is still boring crap. Some of the most famous and influential photos in history have been seen only as blurry blobs, that yet manage to convey their messages, with impact. (Look at old newspaper photos.) Art and emotion do not depend on resolution, noise-reduction, proper white balance. Photography is communication, or it is nothing.

Still, it's good to show photos and get reactions. Triage those reactions: those you'll heed and respond to, those you'll think about, and those you'll ignore. Remember, clients count more than critics. If someone says, "I want a copy of that," you know you're going in the right direction.

[adwb]

I've been shooting a long, long time. "

"Now I shoot for ME, and occasionally I sell something. I don't enter contests. I don't post much online. There are technically 'bad' shots that I've printed and displayed and sold, that receive only abuse from online nit-pickers. Well, f*ck'em. Paying customers trump self-styled critics. Audience satisfaction trumps technical detraction."

To be worthwhile, a photo must communicate something vital and eye-grabbing and heart-grabbing. Beautifully photographed boring crap is still boring crap. Some of the most famous and influential photos in history have been seen only as blurry blobs, that yet manage to convey their messages, with impact. (Look at old newspaper photos.) Art and emotion do not depend on resolution, noise-reduction, proper white balance. Photography is communication, or it is nothing.

Still, it's good to show photos and get reactions. Triage those reactions: those you'll heed and respond to, those you'll think about, and those you'll ignore. Remember, clients count more than critics. If someone says, "I want a copy of that," you know you're going in the right direction.

Rico,
Amen to that, as 60 year old who has been taking images and snaps since I was little and sold a few over the years I take for me and what I like, I like.If some one else likes, great, if they don't stuff 'em.
my attitude is those who can ,do, and those who can't teach [maybe criticise??] Alistair