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08-21-2010, 12:59 PM   #1
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12 Excuses for Shooting Photos for Free — and Why They’re Bogus

I found this article that I thought to be somewhat interesting, and I'm curious about what real photographers that make their living out of it think about photographers that work for free.
Have you guys had any experience with the subject?

12 Excuses for Shooting Photos for Free ? and Why They?re Bogus | Black Star Rising

08-21-2010, 01:14 PM   #2
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I see there is one category the writer skipped on, I would rather eat my camera than try to suggest that I charge the mother in law for scanning her old pictures or retouching crap shots given to her by her grandchildren that they have taken with P&Ss...:-)
Life is to short to argue absolutes, there are just going to be some people you just won't charge. You have to choose where to draw the line. It also helps to let friends/family know that if people find out that you didn't charge this time, that you will definitely charge next time.
08-21-2010, 02:48 PM - 1 Like   #3
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You know what they say about opinions...

The problem with his post is that he is confusing working professionals with photographers who are semi-pro or shooting for fun on the side.

It's pretty simple really. Either the person is good enough to take jobs from working pros or, they are taking jobs that pro can't (or won't) take. If the pros can't take the job, then the pro isn't really losing out on anything. If the amateur is good enough to take jobs from the pro then the pro is doing something wrong.

The industry is changing and some people who marginal will be squeezed out and have sour grapes. If they can't keep up with how things are changing, then they will fail, sooner or later.
08-21-2010, 04:16 PM - 1 Like   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by opfor Quote
Life is to short to argue absolutes
QuoteOriginally posted by alohadave Quote

It's pretty simple really. Either the person is good enough to take jobs from working pros or, they are taking jobs that pro can't (or won't) take. If the pros can't take the job, then the pro isn't really losing out on anything. If the amateur is good enough to take jobs from the pro then the pro is doing something wrong.
I'd agree with opfor and therefore I'd have to disagree with alohadave.

A lot of published work is in decline. A lot of the work that is being considered "good enough" is very sub-par. Sometimes it creates a win/lose/lose situation where the amateur gets to be "published" but the quality of the publication goes down and the pro loses work.

08-21-2010, 04:32 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by cwood Quote
A lot of published work is in decline. A lot of the work that is being considered "good enough" is very sub-par. Sometimes it creates a win/lose/lose situation where the amateur gets to be "published" but the quality of the publication goes down and the pro loses work.
+1. Case in point: newspapers. Giving a reporter a camera does not equal good news photography. Many editors seem to be placed there to cut costs alone, at the expense of 'old school' ones who know their stuff. Now papers like to ask amateurs for shots so they can 'credit' them.

Photojournalism will survive but it will change.
08-21-2010, 05:37 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by alohadave Quote
You know what they say about opinions...

The problem with his post is that he is confusing working professionals with photographers who are semi-pro or shooting for fun on the side.

It's pretty simple really. Either the person is good enough to take jobs from working pros or, they are taking jobs that pro can't (or won't) take. If the pros can't take the job, then the pro isn't really losing out on anything. If the amateur is good enough to take jobs from the pro then the pro is doing something wrong.

The industry is changing and some people who marginal will be squeezed out and have sour grapes. If they can't keep up with how things are changing, then they will fail, sooner or later.
Exactly right, you nailed it head on. I do minor shooting for free for friends and relatives, am no Pro, never have claimed to be anywhere close, and am no threat to anyone unless they are trying to "pull someone's leg".

I am a plumber, mostly retired now, and many times I would have welcomed someone to come along and do the job for free so I could do something else. Never happened because no one wanted to do what I did for free. I sense someone being threatened, which translates to a lack of confidence in their own work.
Regards
08-21-2010, 05:50 PM   #7
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I disagree in some areas of photography with the above. For example, in news all this 'citizens report' stuff is a cost-saving measure while real journalists get laid off. I would not argue it is because the citizens report is better. It's just a dumbing down/infotainment low cost option compared to employing a professional. Even professional time is much more limited, and stories less in depth, because of cost - not necessarily because amateurs can do it better. There are many examples of reporters being given cameras to shoot for their own stories, apparently because with modern cameras 'anyone can take a photo'.


Last edited by CWyatt; 08-21-2010 at 05:56 PM.
08-21-2010, 05:55 PM - 1 Like   #8
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The plumbing analogy is appropriate. The difference between a professional plumber and an amateur isn't necessarily in the quality of the work, it's the ability to complete jobs in a reasonable time under a wide variety of conditions. Sometimes a skilled amateur might take much longer than the pro and even do a job better, but in a way that wouldn't be cost-effective if it was being done for pay. It's like that with photography. Sometimes an amateur can produce as good or better results than a pro, but the pro has to always produce reasonably good results in a reasonable amount of time.

Paul
08-21-2010, 05:58 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by tibbitts Quote
the pro has to always produce reasonably good results in a reasonable amount of time.
Very valid, or at least 'should' produce reasonable results.
08-21-2010, 06:53 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by tibbitts Quote
The plumbing analogy is appropriate. The difference between a professional plumber and an amateur isn't necessarily in the quality of the work, it's the ability to complete jobs in a reasonable time under a wide variety of conditions. Sometimes a skilled amateur might take much longer than the pro and even do a job better, but in a way that wouldn't be cost-effective if it was being done for pay. It's like that with photography. Sometimes an amateur can produce as good or better results than a pro, but the pro has to always produce reasonably good results in a reasonable amount of time.

Paul
That is fair enough.....many homeowners are fully capable of minor plumbing repairs, and I always encouraged them to do it themselves and save a few dollars if possible. It may be, but I never knew a licensed plumber that worked for free...if he was good enough to pass the stringent exam, and pay for his license and insurance, he was not doing it for free.........I doubt that many photographers that fit that category of qualifications shoot for free either.....Shooting for free does not equate to being a great shooter in most cases.....I'm sure not a great shooter, but good enough for free.....sort of......
Regards!
08-21-2010, 07:10 PM   #11
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I think it's quite obvious the article writer is not well poised to make money shooting
But seriously though... this reads more like an agree rant than a helpful guide or tips page.

The simple truth is, that there is a time to charge and a time to shoot for money. But I doubt there is any fixed formula from which to go by with regards to success. I mean after all... its not like the shooters portfolio can't speak for itself.

If anything, I smell insecurity.
If your good, your good, and people will seek out your work.
it's just that simple imo.
08-21-2010, 07:39 PM   #12
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I'm looking at this from the other side. As an advanced amateur I'm starting to get asked to do paid work. Not much, but two requests in the last week have me wondering.

I'm retired. Sure I could use some extra cash. However, I don't want to turn my hobby into a business. I've done that before and succeeded, but the experience changes when you take on a boss. The pursuit is not longer about taking photos that please me, but that please the person with the checkbook. I don't want to lose the joy of photography the way I lost the joy of writing. That took a couple of decades to return. Sure, I'm happy to sell a print that I have in a show. But that's not assignment work. As long as I pay for my prints and framing, that way, I'm happy.

I turned down the jobs, referring the people to pros I know do good work. Yet when a friend really turns up the pressure, "Just this once, buddy. You'd really be doing me a favor." It's hard. It wasn't even about him saving money. The guy was willing to pay a good rate. I managed to convince him that I don't know anything about wedding photography. I don't. He is better off getting an experienced pro for his daughter's wedding. Yet, there's always that temptation to take the money or even to volunteer to do the job for free. He is a good friend. Just some thoughts.
08-21-2010, 07:52 PM   #13
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I don't try to kid myself by calling myself a semi-professional. I have had a few shots published and I have made a little money through the years (very little). It is my hobby. I do it for fun. I will NOT shoot a wedding. I have been asked and I always say no. I had a couple of bad experiences years ago. The guy makes some valid points. For a starting out professional, it is a better decision to charge the "going rate". As a professional mechanic, I have been asked about doing side jobs. I charge $40 an hour plus parts. Thats $6 more than I make on overtime at my job which I consider my travel expense. People get mad and walk away, even though a truck shop will charge them $75 or more. I haven't done side work in years. I was told I was nuts to ask that much. Am I supposed to give up my free time for less money than I would be getting paid normally? Some people seem to think so.
08-21-2010, 08:10 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
I think it's quite obvious the article writer is not well poised to make money shooting
But seriously though... this reads more like an agree rant than a helpful guide or tips page.

The simple truth is, that there is a time to charge and a time to shoot for money. But I doubt there is any fixed formula from which to go by with regards to success. I mean after all... its not like the shooters portfolio can't speak for itself.

If anything, I smell insecurity.
If your good, your good, and people will seek out your work.
it's just that simple imo.
You need to be more than 'good' in many areas. You can't be good, sit back and think you're going to rise to the top, or get a bunch of opportunities, it just won't happen.

Did you bother checking the guy out? Do you know Black Star? He's a long time pro, I think he has valid points - it's not just a rant.
08-21-2010, 08:44 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by CWyatt Quote
You need to be more than 'good' in many areas. You can't be good, sit back and think you're going to rise to the top, or get a bunch of opportunities, it just won't happen.

Did you bother checking the guy out? Do you know Black Star? He's a long time pro, I think he has valid points - it's not just a rant.

I can't imagine why a Pro,with plenty of business due to his fine work could possibly be concerned that someone was shooting for free? Now if other Pros are shooting for free, then they will soon be broke and he will have less competition.....if they are lousy shooters....word gets around. I read his 12 points and none of them made a lick of sense to me. Perhaps there is another reason.....if all shooters like me start to charge, it will increase the value of shooters that are really qualified? Thus, they will get more income at the expense of guys like me that currently don't charge..... because it would be wrong to do so......? Just guessing....because I didn't find much reason in his 12 points.
Regards!
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