[vinzer]

There are lots of "obsolete" cameras, lenses, and other equipment out there which are within my grasp. Happily, it is in my nature to be drawn to such things anyway and I'd probably gravitate toward the obsolete even if I hit the lottery.

In your case, you're very lucky that you stay in Japan. I think there's a good market there for used camera items.

I really should visit Japan sometime.

[MJB DIGITAL]

regarding the bug for getting the latest and greatest

i will say again that i will always allow my business to buy the latest and greatest. its business and thats what you do. its deductible. its new and good gear. its (after firmware updates) reliable. its all that and a bag of beans.

and on the other hand. i swear to god i even get lost in taking pics on my cell phone.

[Trawlerman]

Why even worry about this?

Everybody gets something different from their hobby. Some will always want something better whilst others are happy to stay with what they want. Some will want to just try something different.

I found this to be true of any hobby. A few years back I was into Ham Radio in a big way and found that there were people out there who just had to have the latest and greatest equipment just to be able to say that they had it. The fact that they had no need for it or even any idea how to use it didn't to them.

Photography is the same.

I don't have a lot of time for photography but what time I do spend I enjoy. I have just gotten a Samsung GX-10 and am very pleased with it. I would have liked to have had the Pentax K10D but I couldn't afford it so I went for second best. Now I'm not the best photographer around by any means but I'm getting results that I'm happy with and to me that is all that matters.

I also have a small collection of glass to fit my K-mounts and often take a K1000, P30 or one of my Ricoh's out for a day in place of the digitals that I have. Heck I even have some old FSU Rangefinders and a Yashicamat that I like to play around with at times.

Sometimes just looking at and fondling old camera's is enough enjoyment for me.

As long you are enjoying what you do that is all that matters. Sure, taking taking photo's is an important part of this hobby but it is not the be all and end all of photography.

[ChrisA]

Just because you experienced photography a certain way doesn't mean that the same experience will apply to everybody else.

Agreed. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

If there was an all-manual digital camera at about the same price of a K10D body, I'd probably go for it because of the potential costs and time savings.

Well there is - it's the K10D. It lets you control everything manually, and gives you all the convenience of the digital medium. In fact, unless you do all the darkroom work yourself with film, digital gives you more control than film does.

All that matters to me is that photography brings joy and fullfillment to me and to other people. Why should it matter to anybody what equipment or medium is used? If Mike Cash prefers older film cameras, why should you care?

Again, agreed. Sadly, I did what drives me nuts when other people do it to my posts - didn't read carefully enough and drew the wrong conclusion about the intent.

I read it as suggesting that freedom from the costs of film was the only advantage of digital, hence my list of other ones.

However, on re-reading the post I quoted, this conclusion was not justified, for which I apologise.

[Mike Cash]

Yes, this is the end indeed. I guess the only way out now is to hope that Pentax will never release any more new dSLR's. Unless of course that is a model to replace the current models and the new model does not have SDM, in fact, no AF, no lightmeeter, no bracketing, no continuous shooting, only manual flash with use-once flash bulbs, only 1 choice of iso: iso 100. no raw, only jpeg that has been locked so it cannot be processed further. only 1 preset white balance. no lcd screen on the back. no lcd screen on the top. oh, and with a max 2mpix sensor. Then we can finally all be happy with our new cameras and the pictures we take will be exactly the same, since the equipment doesnt matter and we are still the same levels of photographers with our new all-manual low res cameras.

Hyperbole has it's place, I suppose.

I don't mind that Pentax or any other company pursues further technological developments and improvements. Not at all. To the contrary, I think it's great. There are people who want the resultant products, who can afford them, and who derive great satisfaction from them. Why on earth would I (or any of the other dinosaurs who have surfaced in the thread) wish to deprive them? I don't think anyone has expressed an opinion which could be construed as wishing technological developments and added features to go away.

But you're still shooting film, so the cost benefits are out the window...

But I'm not limited to shooting film. I can take the antiques out and play with them for fun and within the constraints of the funds I wish to devote to the costs of film and developing. Digital still accounts for probably 95% of what I shoot. I like puttering around with the antiques in the same way an antique car enthusiast might enjoy taking a beloved antique car out of the garage and going for a spin every now and then. He still keeps his modern car for daily use.

I personally don't think film cost should be the sole reason for one to switch to digital. There are many other more worth while benefits imo.

I agree.

I never said being freed from the expenses associated with film was the sole reason for switching or the only benefit. I said it is the extent of my love affair with digital. I tend to choose my words carefully when I compose posts.

Ah, so seeing what you took straight away is no help? I learn more quickly from my frequent mistakes with digital than I ever did with film, since the picture is there straight away, rather than having to wait days or weeks for the processing.

Certainly instant review is a very nice feature. Never said or implied otherwise.

But there is a certain sort of fun in getting back a roll of film that one shot a few frames at a time over a period of a few weeks or months.

And having the EXIF included with the picture is entirely redundant?

Never said or implied that either.

Maybe you're one of these people with notebook and pencil, who laboriously record the film, lens, exposure and aperture details for every shot, and cross-reference it later with the negatives.

Quite the opposite. I'm one of those people who doesn't worry about it in the slightest.

Even with the digital body and the EXIF recording, though, since I use mostly Takumar lenses the only EXIF exposure data I end up with is ISO and shutter speed. If you see one of my photos posted with exposure info included, it is because I took the photo recently enough to still remember the aperture. I really, really, really don't worry about it. The only concession I make to that sort of thing with film is to place a sticker on the negative sleeve indicating which camera it came out of and the month(s) and year.

And being able to publish a photograph in seconds is no use either?

Another thing I neither said nor implied.

Not having to scan a print or a negative to get it into the computer? Not having to suffer dust and scratches not a benefit? Puh-leeese...

And another.

Nor being able to do the equivalent of hours in the darkroom in minutes on the computer, and save every step along the way in case of mistakes?

And still more.

What darkroom? I scan in a few photos, save them, and monkey around with them on the computer just like I do photos from my K100D.

Am I somehow inconveniencing you or others by doing that?

Come on, people - there is a middle ground, between insane gear-freakery and a Puritan insistence on simplicity.

This isn't a competition, either on the one hand, for the most expensive, gadget-ridden digital pen1s-substitute, nor on the other hand for the most you can achieve with a cardboard box with a pinhole in the side.

You're quite right.

I enjoy my modern K100D. I enjoy my antique film cameras as well. I'm happy to come here and converse with others who enjoy photography in whatever way it is that brings them happiness. I see no competition about it. Nor do I see a need to take such great exception to a few words from someone who expressed an opinion about enjoying obsolete equipment.

Of course a super duper digital camera doesn't make you into Ansel Adams, but neither does intelligently learning to get the best out of the new technology make you a moron.

Again, you're absolutely correct. Did someone say something to make you think they're against intelligently learning to get the best out of modern equipment?

In seven short months, I have learned more about how to create a decent picture, than in the preceding 20 years of film photography. Maybe I wasn't committed enough to the cause in those days, but I know that it's the digital SLR that has restored my mojo.

I'm pleased to hear that you are enjoying our shared hobby. Can't imagine that anyone here would feel otherwise.

[ChrisA]

Certainly instant review is a very nice feature. Never said or implied otherwise.
...
Never said or implied that either.
...
Another thing I neither said nor implied.
...
And another.
...
And still more.

Please note my apology earlier. I did mean it.

[tknterry]

We should all ride around with our camera's in our cars, spend less time on the internet and go take some pictures!!

I agree with much of what you said, but one trifling thing that concerns me is leaving my camera in the car on a hot day with the windows closed, when I cant or dont want to take it with me outside for some reason, for example when I go grocery shopping or whatever. Is it unsafe for the camera to leave it in hot temperatures or am I being paranoid?

---

Last edited by tknterry; 08-29-2007 at 08:57 AM.

[TaoMaas]

No, you're not being paranoid about leaving your camera in your car during the summer. It's a valid concern. I've heard that the intense temperatures can loosen the cement in lenses that holds the elements together and cause them to get out of alignment. Direct sun can also melt the plastic bodies of some cameras. This doesn't mean you can't take your camera with you. You just have to take some precautions. I toss an old ice chest in my back seat and put my camera in there when I need to leave it in the car. The ice chest helps insulate the camera from the heat as well as hiding it from view. If you want an extra measure of safety, put a cold soda inside a plastic bag and put it in the ice chest with your camera. That'll help keep the interior plenty cool enough to protect your camera.

[tknterry]

A small ice chest is a good idea, thanks

[simonkit]

Personally whilst I'm all for technological advancement & extra "gadgets" I think that there is a feeling amongst some that the newer the technology the better the photographs.

Whilst obviously some of this is true - better dynamic range, better low light focusing etc it's still 100% the abilities of the photographer that ultimately decide how good a photograph will be.

I've seen great shots from humble P&S cameras & some utterly awful ones from very high spec DSLRs (& vice versa).

Simon

[Chako]

Of course there is. I do not think anyone here will argue that the photographer is everything. After all, photographic equipment is only that...tools.

However, you can easily do manual everything with most cameras out there (please note that I say this because some simple compacts are anything but manual). Even the most advanced cameras will happily do manual. The built in meter is useful, but you don’t have to follow it. I have been known to use my Gossen LunasixF on rare occasions where I felt I needed it. However, built in light meters are very accurate these days.

Likewise, you can manually focus your lenses. This is even more so with the Pentax line. So, you don't even need to use AF if your so inclined.

All of these technological advancements have made the camera a veritable powerhouse of a tool though, and one that will fit more occasions then the old cameras could. I enjoy wildlife, and I can honestly say that my photographs have improved immensely with better faster auto focus. It is nice to manual focus when I have the time, and I need to be more artistic about what is in focus and what is not. And no, there is just as much skill in properly using AF as not. I don't follow how people need to be more skillful in using older cameras. This is just not the case. New cameras uses properly will require just as much (if not more) skill to use then older simpler ones.

I enjoy technology, and feel that these tools are a very big asset to my enjoyment of photography. I will not eschew anything that makes my photographs better. There is just as much skill in using these advanced cameras, as there ever was in the days of manual/mechanical every things. These cameras can be used exactly as throwbacks to the 60s if you want, and there is nothing wrong with using them like that either.

What I do lament are the depth of field scales missing from most AF lenses, and other small touches that for some unknown reason, have failed to materialize in modern cameras.

I firmly believe those who enjoy using old equipment are doing that for several reasons. Some people prefer the act of using old equipment as a feeling of being true to the process of photography, others prefer it for the sake of nostalgia, and others possibly for the handling and feel of quality craftsmanship.

I don't know why some lament that photography is being lost. The truth is that it isn’t. It is getting more exciting as time goes on. There is equipment and tools out there for everyone. Arguing over if technology is polluting photography, or that people are afraid of technology as the great purveyor of photographic death, is not helpful, and is far from what we should be celebrating.

What makes everyone here have common ground? That is what we should be celebrating. Photgraphy isn't dead. It is just changing, evolving, and morphing into something new and old. This process hasn't changed with electronics, or formats, or designs. My first post was illustrates that changes occurred in the film world just as changes are now occurring in the film to digital era. Change has occurred even before that. I can imagine a bunch of daguerreotypists lamenting about those newfangled film formats polluting photography. The simple and unequivocal truth is that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Lucky for us, film will not die anytime soon. I know that you can still get darkroom equipment and chemistry to this day. Finding them may be a little harder, but we can still all be accommodated to our individual needs and wants.

[troywhite]

I'm still happy with my *ist DS and will probably hold onto it until it gives up the ghost and costs more to fix than replace.

Lens however are another story

Seriously though, photography is like any hobby. I have multiple hobbies and spend dollars on all of them that I probably don't need to.

We are serious hobbyists and part of our hobby is the excitement of new things (bodies, lens, features). It is just the lot of a hobbyist.

Edit: My apologies to anyone reading who isn't a hobby photographer and does in fact make a living(killing) with photography

[Nando]

Guys, I know that you can turn the automatic features off. For me, that still doesn't turn the usability problems off. Many times it compounds them, in fact. I truly considered a K10D about 3 or 4 months ago but it doesn't do it for me. I'm sure they are perfect for some people but not for me. It's a hobby for my and not a profession so if I don't enjoy the equipment what the point in using it? No camera in the world will make me a better photographer if I enjoy using it as I won't spend as much time training my eye (and mind's eye).

[MJB DIGITAL]

I can understand the upgrade from a filmslr to a digital slr, or even from a digital / film p&s to an slr...

What I can't understand is why does everyone dwell on what is coming out new, and if they should jump ship to Nikon cause of some new product, or if they should have the newest * lens....

I have a Spotmatic and a ZX-M for taking some film photo's when I get bored with my K10D....but I'm still popping off photo's.

I personally don't see the hype with all the new product.

I always thought photography was a way to help you express what you see or how you see it. I don't see why todays current line up of camera's can't do that.

I'm not trying to knock anyone but.....I feel most digital slr's on the market will get the job done... especially if it's for hobby.

Don't get me wrong, I love technology and new product.......but I think a 6MP+ camera could serve you're needs for another 3-5 years....

I just don't see it....sorry.

We should all ride around with our camera's in our cars, spend less time on the internet and go take some pictures!!

my i reiterate for you?
thank you, dont mind if i do

a (this) society of photographers should realign and reacquaint (sp) itself with the vision that is photography.

are we photo makers or camera collectors?

there is a fullfilling, rewarding, enjoyable life of photography out there. but you need to DO photography to experience it.

there is so much time and energy wasted by sitting in front of the computer searching for rumors about gear or talking about gear or hoping and wishing and debating about photography.

there is a portion of the photographic society that appears (im saying just appears its not an accusation) to not even be photographers because of the amount of time that they spend not photographing.

GET OUT THERE AND SHOOT. you will like it.

[J.Scott]

I can understand the upgrade from a film slr to a digital slr, or even from a digital / film p&s to an slr...

What I can't understand is why does everyone dwell on what is coming out new, and if they should jump ship to Nikon cause of some new product, or if they should have the newest * lens....

I'd say you are embellishing a bit when you say 'everyone'. I am sure this is just an opinion and you haven't conducted a survey of the 6 billion or more inhabitants of this planet. Like my mother said, "I told you a million times not to exaggerate!"

Also, I know it is human nature to try and figure out why other people do what they do but it will just drive you mad if you think too hard about this.

I personally don't see the hype with all the new product.

You tell me! You have a more advanced camera than I do. Perhaps you bought the hype and rushed out to acquire the 'latest and greatest' when you purchased your K10D. Personally, I know there are many more cameras in the world that are better than mine but - meh! - I'm ok with that.

I always thought photography was a way to help you express what you see or how you see it. I don't see why todays current line up of camera's can't do that.

Why can't a new camera help you express what you see? Are new cameras less capable than old cameras? If that is true I will gladly take that horrible K10D off your hands for free. That way you can express yourself more completely with the good 'ole Spotmatic.

I'm not trying to knock anyone but.....I feel most digital slr's on the market will get the job done... especially if it's for hobby.

If you are not trying to "knock anyone" why even start this thread? You are obviously criticizing the buying habits of the modern consumer.

Don't get me wrong, I love technology and new product.......but I think a 6MP+ camera could serve you're needs for another 3-5 years....

Again, send me that useless K10D of yours and I just know you will sleep better at night. Tell you what, I'll trade you even for my humble *ist DS 6 MP. I know I would be shamefully lumped into the "everyone' category you mentioned earlier, but I am a seasoned professional at living with guilt. I'll get over it quickly.

I just don't see it....sorry.

And they say that Canadians apologize excessively! You should first visit your ophthalmologist so they can help you see it and then visit a shrink to help you with the excessive apologizing thing.

We should all ride around with our camera's in our cars, spend less time on the internet and go take some pictures!!

If I didn't take the time to go on the internet I never would have seen your thoughts on modern cameras and technology. Now that would be sad. Plus, I might not have had the opportunity to help you by taking that inferior K10D off your hands.