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08-30-2007, 05:21 PM   #16
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Thanks for that link arbutusq!

08-31-2007, 01:00 AM   #17
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Make your own DOF scales by going here:
Hyperfocal Distance and Depth of Field Calculator - DOFMaster
Open the program and just play - you will get a sense of how all this stuff works. Once you get comfortable - it will be second nature. Also go to:
Cambridge in Colour - Digital Photography Tutorials
pay attention to:
Understanding Depth of Field in Photography
Diffraction Limited Photography: Pixel Size, Aperture and Airy Disks

I too (and have stated it here several time) am astonished at the stupidity - yes that is the correct word - of lens manufacturers at removing DOF scales from lenes. Now don't tell me that "you can't do that for zoom lenses" - because nearly all manufacturers did in the early years of zooms - it is possible - they just got lazy and the automation of cameras made photographers "forget" one of the essential tools of the trade.

PDL
08-31-2007, 03:53 AM   #18
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It is important that people remember that DOF charts and lens scales are based on some assumptions regarding viewing distance, print size and etc. The results should be considered a general guide only.

The Cambridge in Color tutorial appears to be a good source, I also have a DOF calculator and tutorial at:

DOF Table W/Definitions

There is a javascript calculator there that will probably work with Windows but might not work with Mac OS X. However, for those with Excel, there is a download link there that includes a DOF chart (and other tools) that include a digital format.

http://www.fineart-photography.com/PhotoTools.xls

Finally, there is also a tutorial about usings the DOF scale on a lens barrel at:

Using DOF Scales

It should be noted that on a lens designed for 35mm the scale will not strictly apply to a digital sensor that is smaller than 24mm x 36mm. DOF charts assume that for any given focal length the same size print will be made no matter the format. In other words, the smaller the format, the more it has to be enlarged and, consequently, focus become more critical.

In looking at DOF charts for different formats it might appear that digital cameras are at a big disadvantage DOF wise. However, a digital camera can capture the same scene with a shorter focal length than the film formats and DOF is greater for shorter focal lengths.
08-31-2007, 09:38 AM   #19
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From my own perspective hyperfocal length is best when you are using a manual focus lens, and have a predetermined range of things you want in relitively good focus. You can then point and shoot and get acceptable results. It was really good for travel shots where generally you could with a meduim wide to normal lens have from perhaps 10 feet to infinity in focus at a small apature.

With AF and espically with selectible AF sensors, many people now are looking to select a specific point of perfect focus as opposed to an overall range of acceptable sharpness.

Additionally when you have time to look at things like landscapes which do not move, or macro shots, you can use the DOF preview to decide/check what you have in focus. Note that with macro the DOF is usually so small that you don't have much option but to pick the focus point anyway

08-31-2007, 09:54 AM   #20
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I've just ventured out to test a few more techniques, having already used Hyperfocal for a short while.

I selected objects in the foreground & distance & used them as focus point, then tried apertures of F11 & F16 - to be honest the shots came out fine, couldn't really see any difference between this technique & using Hyperfocal distance ?

simon
08-31-2007, 10:06 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by PDL Quote
I too (and have stated it here several time) am astonished at the stupidity - yes that is the correct word - of lens manufacturers at removing DOF scales from lenes. Now don't tell me that "you can't do that for zoom lenses" - because nearly all manufacturers did in the early years of zooms - it is possible - they just got lazy and the automation of cameras made photographers "forget" one of the essential tools of the trade.

PDL

I too remember having zoom lenses that had HF DOF scales marked on them and still have a number around the place.

I think the turning point came when lenses started using Internal Focusing methods thus making the lens the same physical length regardless of the focal length selected. I can see how adding HF DOF scales would be difficult for all focal lengths with IF lenses but i'm sure a work around could have been found to include this.

To be honest I don't think enough people care about it these days for it to be reintroduced. Back in the day I knew of the scales marked on my lenses but didn't understand what I was looking at and most people are probably the same.
08-31-2007, 10:26 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Trawlerman Quote
I too remember having zoom lenses that had HF DOF scales marked on them and still have a number around the place.

I think the turning point came when lenses started using Internal Focusing methods thus making the lens the same physical length regardless of the focal length selected. I can see how adding HF DOF scales would be difficult for all focal lengths with IF lenses but i'm sure a work around could have been found to include this.

To be honest I don't think enough people care about it these days for it to be reintroduced. Back in the day I knew of the scales marked on my lenses but didn't understand what I was looking at and most people are probably the same.
This is precisely the reason for going to places like DOF Master and making your own. Photography is a craft - and if you choose to ignore the techniques of the past, all you are doing is adding to the "dummy down" mentality that pervades our addiction.

That and the stupid idea that holding a camera at arms length and staring at a little screen is better than looking through a viewfinder.

Feel the need to not be stupid, learn how to use the tools, do not expect the camera to do all the work – think – it will do you good.

PDL - I am not calling you stupid - but it is the trend of "gee the camera HAS to do all the work" - now, where is the Ansel Adams button.


Last edited by PDL; 08-31-2007 at 10:27 PM. Reason: punctuation
09-01-2007, 10:14 AM   #23
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There is a handy little program for Palm PDAs that calculates DOF and hyper-focal distance. It's free and here's the URL for the web-page:

DOF Master LE

Oops! By the time I got this posted several new posts where added including the one about DOF Master - sorry for the noise.
09-28-2007, 03:12 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by simonkit Quote
Just made the move from "prosumer" to DSLR & am adjusting to the differences in DOF - in particular achieving the same DOF as inherent in the smaller sensor cameras.

Having read much already & also tried a few different techniques (hyperfocal, infinity etc) I wondered if anyone actually uses Hyperfocal focusing now as it seems to be less pertinent to the "digital age"

thanks

simon
yes - i used it a lot with my P&S canon S1IS: i set the custom setting to a hyperfocal setting that made my camera a a night-shooter. having set the hyperfocal distance to the correct value once, i only had to switch to "C", flip out the flash to be able to take tack-sharp pictures in total darkness from appr. appr. 50cm to as far as the flash reached. i am considering setting the "C"-program on my K10D to work exaktly in this way with the SMC-F 28/2.8 - just have to check which setting works best.
09-28-2007, 11:30 PM   #25
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Alright... where to begin.

I've read some of the links on Hyperfocal Distance and I'm pretty clear on what it is. I now also know what those illusive numbers and marks on my 28mm prime lens mean.

However, I have a (dumb?) question:

If you have AF, then where does the camera focus? Wherever it feels it should, or at the hyperfocal distance?

Does having AF throw HFD-focusing out the window?

If I have AF, and ignored the cameras ability to focus automatically and instead went with the HFD-focusing method, how are my pics going to look different?

Just a noob asking a lot of question. Please educate me
10-10-2007, 02:46 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by simonkit Quote
Just made the move from "prosumer" to DSLR & am adjusting to the differences in DOF - in particular achieving the same DOF as inherent in the smaller sensor cameras.

Having read much already & also tried a few different techniques (hyperfocal, infinity etc) I wondered if anyone actually uses Hyperfocal focusing now as it seems to be less pertinent to the "digital age"

thanks

simon
I use hyperfocal distance regularly and when using my DA14, I think I use it nearly all the time. This is one reason why I like primes for wide angle as they have the distance markers on the lens barrel so as it is easy to set hyperfocal distance. I have resisted the urge to replace the DA14 with the DA12-24 due to the fact that zooms do not have the distance scales on them which makes judging hyperfocal distance a little more difficult.
10-10-2007, 03:11 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lance B Quote
I use hyperfocal distance regularly and when using my DA14, I think I use it nearly all the time. This is one reason why I like primes for wide angle as they have the distance markers on the lens barrel so as it is easy to set hyperfocal distance. I have resisted the urge to replace the DA14 with the DA12-24 due to the fact that zooms do not have the distance scales on them which makes judging hyperfocal distance a little more difficult.
Hi Lance!

I would, but I've got the 12-24, which is a necessity for some of the commercial shoots I've done. That being said, I carry a laminated cheat sheet of the common values with me when I'm out in the field taking photos for my own pleasure.

Good to see you!

Cheers,
Marc
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