PPG standards going down?

Blue · 11-04-2010, 08:35 AM

Those Getty images also have historical value. Everything isn't about abstract art.

SpecialK · 11-04-2010, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by Blue

Those Getty images also have historical value. Everything isn't about abstract art.

Again, of course. My point again, is many would not survive on PF, and if we did not know the background of them (and possibly even if we did), they would get ripped. I do not say and have not said they were bad.

Blue · 11-04-2010, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by SpecialK

Again, of course. My point again, is many would not survive on PF, and if we did not know the background of them (and possibly even if we did), they would get ripped. I do not say and have not said they were bad.

Actually, you didn't get my point especially the historical aspect. For example, Hugh Es didn't get the best image of the helicopter leaving the roof of the CIA hotel in Saigon in 1975. However, it is one of the most famous photos of its type in the world because in part because of the historical and social significance. Plus, if someone were to post images from the War Between the States on PF that their great great grandfather had captured at Chicamauga or Manassas, I doubt you would see it get ripped.

Edit: Everyone is a critic. However, I like to critique the critics. Would you really want to do a re-shoot (more ways than one) on this one to get a better focus?

http://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/engaged_observers/meiselas_zm.html

**Clarkey** · 11-05-2010, 09:14 AM

Oi! You over there - just hold still for the.......

Ivan Glisin · 11-05-2010, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by Ash

So does anyone else also see this, and if so, is there a case for addressing this issue with PPG organisers themselves? (of course, I'm willing to do that myself; just asking for personal opinion...)

I agree with you Ash. I gave up on PPG a long long time ago. I doubt things will change. From the annoying user interface, inconsistent lens names and sorting order, to sub-par content, there is nothing that attracts me to PPG as a user or a visitor.

Instead, I am enjoying Onexposure and checking for updates as often as I can, usually daily. Check it out at 1x.com - Best photos on the web

**Ash** · 11-05-2010, 11:36 AM

Awesome work on 1x.com - the work featured there is the best of modern pro images. I suppose that's not the intent of PPG (appealing more to the enthusiast and non-pro community) so I can appreciate that PPG isn't destined for such levels, but it would be great to see it mature and grow into a database of excellent amateur work.

adamaitken · 12-08-2010, 10:58 PM

Start your own gallery, and rigorously judge entries according to your criteria.

Have some guidelines on originality for a start. What is the point of having hundreds of photos of the same subject taken in more or less the same way?

Define technical excellence. Sharpness, noise levels, colour, use of DOF,.

X factor - does the shot have something indefinably beautiful about it?

Passion and emotion - is it moving?

adamaitken · 12-08-2010, 11:05 PM

Ash, I think your image is much more interesting than many I have seen submitted to PPG. I wonder how much weight voters give to the technical aspects anyway. Given the amount of time we spend on inspecting images these days, most people would not have noticed the softness, or the odd head at the bottom. But maybe the technical imperfections ADD something to the image. The out of focus tower suggests a viewer with a slightly enibriated patron of the amusement park. The hptogarpher is not a scientist, but a participant with a connection to the subject that is not merely technical. Why do we automatically downgrade something because it is soft or noisy? There's too much technical analysis and not enough emotional judgment going on in PPG. That's why there are so many technically excellent images which are frankly sterile in effect.

**Ash** · 12-09-2010, 05:42 AM

That's another way of appreciating art, Adam.

It may not be widely appreciated as such, but your point is well taken.
Sometimes unintended results serendipitously create uniquely artistic images. Not sure if this is the case with my examples, but I appreciate this does happen. Thanks for your input.

Blue · 12-09-2010, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by adamaitken

. . .

Passion and emotion - is it moving?

Would that make it an e-motion picture?

Gene Temple · 12-14-2010, 05:06 PM

One persons crap is another persons masterpiece. You like what you like. Some folks hate pp, or even worse (heavens no!) HDR.

11-04-2010, 09:28 PM	#138
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by SpecialK Again, of course. My point again, is many would not survive on PF, and if we did not know the background of them (and possibly even if we did), they would get ripped. I do not say and have not said they were bad. Actually, you didn't get my point especially the historical aspect. For example, Hugh Es didn't get the best image of the helicopter leaving the roof of the CIA hotel in Saigon in 1975. However, it is one of the most famous photos of its type in the world because in part because of the historical and social significance. Plus, if someone were to post images from the War Between the States on PF that their great great grandfather had captured at Chicamauga or Manassas, I doubt you would see it get ripped. Edit: Everyone is a critic. However, I like to critique the critics. Would you really want to do a re-shoot (more ways than one) on this one to get a better focus? http://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/engaged_observers/meiselas_zm.html Last edited by Blue; 11-04-2010 at 09:40 PM.

12-14-2010, 05:06 PM	#146
Gene Temple Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Lynchburg Virginia Posts: 182	subjective? One persons crap is another persons masterpiece. You like what you like. Some folks hate pp, or even worse (heavens no!) HDR.

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11-04-2010, 08:35 AM	#136
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Those Getty images also have historical value. *Everything* isn't about abstract art.

11-04-2010, 08:03 PM	#137
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,480	Originally posted by Blue Those Getty images also have historical value. *Everything* isn't about abstract art. Again, of course. My point again, is many would not survive on PF, and if we did not know the background of them (and possibly even if we did), they would get ripped. I do not say and have not said they were bad.

11-05-2010, 09:14 AM	#139
Clarkey Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brampton, ON, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,456	Oi! You over there - just hold still for the.......

11-05-2010, 10:27 AM	#140
Ivan Glisin Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Belgrade Posts: 656	Originally posted by Ash So does anyone else also see this, and if so, is there a case for addressing this issue with PPG organisers themselves? (of course, I'm willing to do that myself; just asking for personal opinion...) I agree with you Ash. I gave up on PPG a long long time ago. I doubt things will change. From the annoying user interface, inconsistent lens names and sorting order, to sub-par content, there is nothing that attracts me to PPG as a user or a visitor. Instead, I am enjoying Onexposure and checking for updates as often as I can, usually daily. Check it out at 1x.com - Best photos on the web

11-05-2010, 11:36 AM	#141
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920 Original Poster	Awesome work on 1x.com - the work featured there is the best of modern pro images. I suppose that's not the intent of PPG (appealing more to the enthusiast and non-pro community) so I can appreciate that PPG isn't destined for such levels, but it would be great to see it mature and grow into a database of excellent amateur work.

12-08-2010, 10:58 PM	#142
adamaitken Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sydney Posts: 47	Start your own gallery, and rigorously judge entries according to your criteria. Have some guidelines on originality for a start. What is the point of having hundreds of photos of the same subject taken in more or less the same way? Define technical excellence. Sharpness, noise levels, colour, use of DOF,. X factor - does the shot have something indefinably beautiful about it? Passion and emotion - is it moving?

12-08-2010, 11:05 PM	#143
adamaitken Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sydney Posts: 47	Ash, I think your image is much more interesting than many I have seen submitted to PPG. I wonder how much weight voters give to the technical aspects anyway. Given the amount of time we spend on inspecting images these days, most people would not have noticed the softness, or the odd head at the bottom. But maybe the technical imperfections ADD something to the image. The out of focus tower suggests a viewer with a slightly enibriated patron of the amusement park. The hptogarpher is not a scientist, but a participant with a connection to the subject that is not merely technical. Why do we automatically downgrade something because it is soft or noisy? There's too much technical analysis and not enough emotional judgment going on in PPG. That's why there are so many technically excellent images which are frankly sterile in effect.

12-09-2010, 05:42 AM	#144
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920 Original Poster	That's another way of appreciating art, Adam. It may not be widely appreciated as such, but your point is well taken. Sometimes unintended results serendipitously create uniquely artistic images. Not sure if this is the case with my examples, but I appreciate this does happen. Thanks for your input.

12-09-2010, 09:55 AM	#145
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by adamaitken . . . Passion and emotion - is it moving? Would that make it an e-motion picture?