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12-09-2010, 11:53 AM   #1
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Starting IR Photography

So I just got a Pentax K-R, havent even used it yet. I also just read about IR Photography. Is all I need to do this a Hoya IR filter? I have the kit lens and the 300MM kit lens, oh and my tripod. I know I need long exposures etc.
I really don't know much about IR photos, it just looks very cool and My wife can do all the real photos she wants, I'll do the cool stuff like HDR, and IR photos etc.

12-09-2010, 12:31 PM   #2
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I think you need to focus on learning your camera and if you are new to DSLR photography learning exposure and composition. When you get that down and are comfortable, things like HDR or IR are fun to take up and study. Generally, IR images can be produced with you Kr by using and IR filter (like the Hoya IR filter). The problem with this method is that it typically takes fairly long exposures like 30 seconds and focusing is a serious issue (the IR filter is very very dark). What is typically done is to get the camera converted to IR work only. I don't think that is something you want to tackle or do right out of the box with your new camera. I've just gotten my old second hand K100d converted to IR.

Regardless of how you get the image, post processing is required to get an image and that is yet another thing to learn.

I suggest you check out the info about IR on this site. I will say that this is not and endorsement of this place for a conversion but there is a lot of good info there.

Spencer's Camera - Digital Camera Infrared IR Conversions, Modifications & IR Photography - Home
12-09-2010, 01:04 PM   #3
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thanks

Thanks for the tip, this is my second DSLR, had a rebel XS before still have my dad's old canon AE-1 film camer too.. I am an above average amature user, but nowhere near an expert. I am not as interested in "normal" photography i'll leave that to the wife...
I have played with photshop to an extent, the wife is better at it than me.
12-09-2010, 01:19 PM   #4
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Ok, I wasn't sure about that. Let me then say that my personal experience with using the Hoya IR filter method was very unsatisfactory. Between the exposure times and focusing issues it wasn't any fun and was very hit or miss. I gave that up over getting my old camera converted. That has been much better from the get go. If you still have the old Rebel you might consider conversion.

12-09-2010, 04:01 PM   #5
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I can shoot IR with my K20D, but I don't. I much prefer to use my old 5mpx Sony DSC-V1 'NightShot' P&S with deep IR-pass filters (900, 930, 1000nm). With 'NightShot' on, the IR-block hot.filter snaps out of the way; the IR-passed image shows clearly on the V1's LCD screen. A converted dSLR should act the same.

For maximum flexibility, an SLR conversion should replace the hot.filter with clear optical glass and not with an internal IR-pass filter. Then the camera can be used for IR or other spectrum-slicing by putting the appropriate filter on the lens, or it can be used for general photography by putting an IR-block filter on the lens. A camera with an internal IR-pass filter can ONLY be used for IR, which is rather limiting for an expensive piece of gear.
12-10-2010, 07:15 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by gtjr92 Quote
So I just got a Pentax K-R, havent even used it yet. I also just read about IR Photography. Is all I need to do this a Hoya IR filter? I have the kit lens and the 300MM kit lens, oh and my tripod. I know I need long exposures etc.
I really don't know much about IR photos, it just looks very cool and My wife can do all the real photos she wants, I'll do the cool stuff like HDR, and IR photos etc.
Basically, yes, all you need is the IR filter to take the pictures. I haven't had a problem using AF with an IR filter, but I don't do any up close work, it's all landscapes.

You will need to process them, but that isn't too complicated. There are plenty of guides out there. Most people convert to B&W or use false color (google for swap red and blue channels).

IME, you'll want a far longer exposure than you'll think. The exposure meter will be really thrown off by the IR. My K100D Super is relatively sensitive to IR, and I still use 4-8 second exposures in full daylight.

You won't be able to see your composition with the filter on, so you'll need to compose then put the filter on. With Live View, you will see the image as the sensor sees it, so you can compose that way. Be sure to cover the viewfinder with the cap or you will get light contamination in long exposures.
12-12-2010, 01:00 PM   #7
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Thanks for the information on this thread. I've been looking for a *proper* IR thread here in the forums, and instead of posting an entirely new topic, decided to continue this discussion.

I'm in the process of getting into IR photography and have been looking at various filters. Would anyone here be able to assist me about choosign which of the following nm's?

I have the choice of getting either 720nm, 760nm, 850nm, and 950nm. Am I correct in assuming that the higher the nm would mean that I will be expecting higher exposures (up to 30 seconds?) but at the same time it would provide better contrast compared to 720nm?

Thanks in advance to any who might help!

12-12-2010, 09:14 PM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Opethian Quote
I have the choice of getting either 720nm, 760nm, 850nm, and 950nm. Am I correct in assuming that the higher the nm would mean that I will be expecting higher exposures (up to 30 seconds?) but at the same time it would provide better contrast compared to 720nm?
The nanometer number indicates the cutoff wavelength. A higher number means that less (or no) visible light passes through the filter. 720nm is about the most that can be sanely used with an unmodified camera. Yes, you *could* use a 950nm filter on a stock camera, but you would need to frame and focus without the filter, then add the filter, then expose for a long long time, more like 30 minutes than 30 seconds. It's almost as good as ND 666!

With a modified (or 'NightShot') camera, deeper-IR filters are no problem. I can't quite handhold in daylight with a 1000nm filter on my 5mpx Sony DSC-V1, a NightShot P&S, but exposures are usually less than 1 sec at ISO 2500, its IR default. Daylight handholding is a breeze with my 900 and 930nm filters. With my 780nm filter, I can shoot handheld into gloom -- in fact, I use it for very hazy / smoky days.

A 720nm filter is the best place to start with an unmodified camera.
12-13-2010, 09:05 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Opethian Quote
I have the choice of getting either 720nm, 760nm, 850nm, and 950nm. Am I correct in assuming that the higher the nm would mean that I will be expecting higher exposures (up to 30 seconds?) but at the same time it would provide better contrast compared to 720nm?
The higher the number, the less visible light will contribute to your picture. The stronger the filter, the more you will need to convert to B&W since you won't have enough color information to make any kind of usable color shot.

The contrast is all in your lighting. Most light sources (including flash) will put out plenty of IR that you can use.
12-14-2010, 06:14 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
.....5mpx Sony DSC-V1 'NightShot' P&S with deep IR-pass filters (900, 930, 1000nm). With 'NightShot' on, the IR-block hot.filter snaps out of the way; the IR-passed image shows clearly on the V1's LCD screen. ......
That's great! Much easier than converting a camera. A few Sony DSC-V1 cameras are listed on eBay now; I expect they'll sell for $60 or less.

Do you know of any other cameras with a hot mirror that can be moved out of the optical path?

Dave
12-14-2010, 06:20 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by gtjr92 Quote
.... Is all I need to do this a Hoya IR filter? I have the kit lens and the 300MM kit lens, oh and my tripod. I know I need long exposures etc. .....
Yes, All you need is the filter and tripod; I recommend an R72 filter (720nm cutoff); it needn't be Hoya brand.

Longer wave length filters pass less IR; shorter wavelength filters pass too much visible red light.

Dave
12-14-2010, 08:02 AM   #12
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You do need to be careful of what brand you buy - if its not hoya, try and find some sample photos to see what you are getting into (some that come to mind are bower and sunpak - you should be able to find some examples searching on google, probably some flickr sets). Some brands advertise as being IR when they are actually just a deep red - you'd be able to use this for black and white IR shots, but won't attain any of the false color you'll find is often typical of IR photos. the first IR filter I bought was a generic off ebay - cheap enough, but I couldn't produce any false color images as it was really only a deep red. The Hoya R72 will give you the different false color looks with a few photoshop steps.
12-16-2010, 05:26 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by newarts Quote
That's great! Much easier than converting a camera. A few Sony DSC-V1 cameras are listed on eBay now; I expect they'll sell for $60 or less.
The V1 is one of my all-time favorite cameras, along with the Olympus Pen-FT and XA, and Canon Dial-35. I'm on my third, having worn out (broken) the first two. My latest is always with me. I should get another, just in case I break this one too.

To use any filters on the V1, you need adapters. I found a set of 46.5-52mm tubes for the V1 pretty cheap on eBay a couple years ago. These are meant for using wide and tele strap-ons, and should still be available. I bought a set of four 37mm IR-pass filters (780, 900, 930, 1000nm) for another P&S, and I use a 52-37mm step-down ring to mount them on the V1. Nope, no vignetting. I also use various 52mm and 49mm B&W and CC (color correction) filters on the V1-- especially an 80C light blue filter or a darker 47B blue-violet filter, to emulate the 'actinic' light (UV-violet-blue) that early photo-emulsions saw. Combine various color-pass and -block filters for tonal effects, aka spectrum-slicing.

QuoteQuote:
Do you know of any other cameras with a hot mirror that can be moved out of the optical path?
AFAIK only Sony NightShot still and video cams were so built. Gargle for NIGHTSHOT and you'll get a list.

NightShot was crippled and then canceled over concerns that it provided "X-ray vision" (and some eBay sellers tout their IR filters for seeing through clothes, ay yi yi)! The crippling on the V1 consists of 1) a green color cast for that sniperscope effect; 2) slow shutter and wide aperture, without manual control; and 3) high ISO. This cripple is to prevent you from shooting in daylight and peering through thin cotton fabric. Aha, but a dark B&W or ND or IR filter hacks that limitation!

Hacking the sniperscope-green is a job for PP. I use PSP9 (PaintShopPro9) to kill the color cast; then totally desaturate for B&W, or saturate and saturate until the colors become mild pastels; then use CLARIFY to pop the dynamics. Shifting to NightShot boosts the ISO so the resultant image is rather noisy. To me, that's just part of the drama. I also bought (CHEAP!) an IR light that mounts in the V1's flash shoe: Sony HVL-IRM for shooting in total darkness.

I should write a treatise about spectrum-slicing on the V1, yes I should...
04-13-2012, 04:43 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
I can shoot IR with my K20D, but I don't. I much prefer to use my old 5mpx Sony DSC-V1 'NightShot' P&S with deep IR-pass filters (900, 930, 1000nm). With 'NightShot' on, the IR-block hot.filter snaps out of the way; the IR-passed image shows clearly on the V1's LCD screen. A converted dSLR should act the same.

For maximum flexibility, an SLR conversion should replace the hot.filter with clear optical glass and not with an internal IR-pass filter. Then the camera can be used for IR or other spectrum-slicing by putting the appropriate filter on the lens, or it can be used for general photography by putting an IR-block filter on the lens. A camera with an internal IR-pass filter can ONLY be used for IR, which is rather limiting for an expensive piece of gear.
Hi, I just picked up a dsc-v1 for infrared work. When I attach the filter holder/tube to the camera it turns off the nightshot mode and displays "nightshot is invalid"....
Thanks in advance for any advice you could give.
KR
04-13-2012, 08:48 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by K200Duser Quote
Hi, I just picked up a dsc-v1 for infrared work. When I attach the filter holder/tube to the camera it turns off the nightshot mode and displays "nightshot is invalid"....
Thanks in advance for any advice you could give.
Nightshot only works in Auto or P modes. But let's see... ah, near the bottom of the lens mount is a little pin. Depress the pin, and the NIGHTSHOT IS INVALID message appears. I bought a cheap set of aftermarket 45.5-52mm tubes labeled FOR SONY V1. There are two tubes, one WIDE, one TELE. I use the WIDE tube for my filters. I guess its thread isn't deep enough to push that pin! But I also put a VERY thin rubber band around the tube thread, which pushes it away from the mount just a little.

So you have some options:

* Messy: superglue the pin so it won't depress.
* Simplest: use a rubber band as a washer-spacer.
* More work: grind away a couple mm from the tube thread.
* Spend money: buy cheap tubes that are already too short there.

I would gladly tell you where I got the tubes. Unfortunately, I'm on a long sojourn 1000mi / 1600km away from my home base, where the receipts are. And the tube section I have with me lacks a brand name. It'll be a few weeks before I can dig up the information. So I recommend the rubber-band trick.
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