What to do when you come up against multiple white balances?

imaspy · 12-14-2010, 03:53 AM

hey all

i've had a great time with my Kx and assorted lenses thus far, but last week i came up against a dreaded challenge: shooting with multiple white balances.

here is the scenario: i put my hand up to volunteer for photographing the work xmas party. issue is, we were at a restaurant, lit with downlights. our tables (two of them) were right next to the floor-to-ceiling windows. so i had warm indoor light coming down at me, and turn slightly to the right and it was natural / cloudy white balance.

i did the best i could - nothing like being thrown in the deep end eh?? i tried the following:

1. auto white balance: results - no use. the camera got too confused.
2. shooting cloudy: only good half the time
3. shooting tungsten: as above
4. manual WB: waaay too much effort when trying to capture "the moment".

so basically, i had to bring most if not all of the shots back to something normal-looking in post.

my question to you all is, what would have been the best option?

A. shoot in manual WB
B. choose just one WB and bring it all back to a median in post
C. something i didnt know about that you can tell me

opinions?

(if sample images would help explain what i'm talking about, just let me know and i'll post a couple)

cheers all

andrew.

jolepp · 12-14-2010, 04:07 AM

I think post is the thing for such varying circumstances. You might set for either common case and save some work that way. The nice thing about shooting RAW is that you can completely compensate for this sort of thing as you work from what the sensor captured.

Mike Cash · 12-14-2010, 04:41 AM

The only half-joking answer: shoot in b/w mode. White balance problems disappear.

The only time I shoot JPG is if I am in b/w mode. If I am shooting in color, I shoot in RAW and one of the main reasons is that I don't have to give the slightest bit of thought to white balance while I am taking pictures. It is much easier to take care of that when I get back home. Sometimes even if I am shooting with an eye toward the final output in color I will have the camera set to b/w mode so that what I see on the rear LCD review is in b/w. That way I can just review the photo for things like exposure, composition, focus, etc and not be distracted by colors that may be "off" due to white balance problems.

imaspy · 12-14-2010, 05:11 AM

yeah half-joking reply mike, fair comment :P a few of the shots were good shots, composition-wise, but the colours were just lost. so i ended up making a few of them b&w to avoid having to correct them too much, and it worked well

Mike Cash · 12-14-2010, 05:17 AM

I'm glad to hear that. I've had the same thing happen to me. Sometimes I get a favorable comment regarding the photo being in b/w and freely admit to the person that I only did it because the colors were so screwed I didn't have any other choice.

Do give thought to using RAW. As you have seen from this experience, at the very least it is worth it to have one large monkey removed from your back at the time of shooting, when you have enough on your mind already. Also, it is much easier to adjust white balance with RAW files as the setting is done to an absolute standard (a numerical value) easily applied across all photos taken under similar circumstances. While it may not always be possible to get everything just like you want it when faced with multiple light sources such as you had, at the very least once you work out a compromise value you can live with on one of the photos you can apply it to all the photos and have consistency across all of them. Mixed light sources can have a sort of visually jarring effect on the photo, but probably not as jarring as having the colors not being consistent from shot to shot, which is hard to avoid when working with JPG.

**eccs19** · 12-14-2010, 05:34 AM

I've not done this before, but I think it's an option that would work. If you had a white balance card, you can use this ahead of time and set your white balance to custom. Your manual should give you the details on how to do this. Any good camera shop should have one of these cards.

**Lowell Goudge** · 12-14-2010, 06:14 AM

what I do is set one WB for the mode I want to shoot in, Av Tv Manual etc, and then set the exact same mode for the User Mode with the other WB setting, just switch back and forth between modes on the mode dial as you point the camera. Otherwise if you don't want to do that shoot daylight and adjust the other back in PP. Thsi even works with JPEGs

tybeck · 12-15-2010, 02:49 PM

Second on the set manual to a grey card. You could also just stay in one in-camera white balance, shot a grey card and then adjust in PP. The synchronize function in Lightroom or ACR (or copy and paste in Lightroom or Aperture) would make this easier. Set one white balance and then just apply it to all of the pictures with the same light.

johnmflores · 12-15-2010, 04:24 PM

If you use Lightroom, you can set the white balance by selecting the white balance dropper tool and clicking on a white object in the photo - a table cloth, a white shirt, etc.... Lightroom will make that object white and set the white balance of the rest of the photo accordingly. It's basically a poor man's (or lazy man's) grey card. It's not always perfect but it will get you in the ballpark.

Other post programs probably have similar functionality.

In a situation like that I'd work to get some wide shots of the event and venue plus close-ups and candids of the attendees. The venue shots I'd keep in color, but I'd have no qualms about converting the closeups and candid to B&W as they'll likely look more flattering that way.

WerTicus · 12-17-2010, 12:10 AM

shoot raw figure it out later

Mike Cash · 12-17-2010, 12:45 AM

Originally posted by WerTicus

shoot raw figure it out later

"Lieutenant Dan said we didn't have to worry about white balance anymore.....which is good, 'cause that's one less thing."

cwood · 12-17-2010, 12:13 PM

Ask any working photographer what they will do when the encounter mixed lighting and they will most likely give you the same answer ... B&W. I encounter this all the time at weddings and indoor events. A big window on one side of the room and a bunch of artificial lighting coming from the other side. You get a face that is half red and half blue.

As John said above - the wide shots may be OK in color because the close-up details will not be visible and showing the horrible color casts.... but close-up shots will need to be converted to monochrome (sepia or B&W).

eddie1960 · 12-17-2010, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by johnmflores

If you use Lightroom, you can set the white balance by selecting the white balance dropper tool and clicking on a white object in the photo - a table cloth, a white shirt, etc.... Lightroom will make that object white and set the white balance of the rest of the photo accordingly. It's basically a poor man's (or lazy man's) grey card. It's not always perfect but it will get you in the ballpark.

Other post programs probably have similar functionality.

In a situation like that I'd work to get some wide shots of the event and venue plus close-ups and candids of the attendees. The venue shots I'd keep in color, but I'd have no qualms about converting the closeups and candid to B&W as they'll likely look more flattering that way.

The Pentax software does this as well and in some scenarios better than lightroom. on another thread (about led lighting) there was a scene with magenta light (no green led just varying red and blue), fortunately one of the entertainers was wearing a white shirt. the pentax just nailed it, light room still struggled (led light is an extreme scenario though, I've always gone b/w in that case, but after reading the thread i may process the wb with silkypix (never thought i'd say that)

eddie1960 · 12-17-2010, 12:27 PM

you can also get a great lens-cap for setting WB a little more expensive than a grey card but more durable. there are also some varied grey cards out there (cinematographer tools) that let you pick from cool to warm whites not sheap but really precise tools

http://www.warmcards.com/WC1.html

alohadave · 12-17-2010, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by cwood

Ask any working photographer what they will do when the encounter mixed lighting and they will most likely give you the same answer ... B&W. I encounter this all the time at weddings and indoor events. A big window on one side of the room and a bunch of artificial lighting coming from the other side. You get a face that is half red and half blue.

As John said above - the wide shots may be OK in color because the close-up details will not be visible and showing the horrible color casts.... but close-up shots will need to be converted to monochrome (sepia or B&W).

Eh, no. If you have lots of daylight influencing the shots, you use flash or daylight balance and let the tungsten fall where it will. People will accept deep orange lights much easier than blue windows.

12-14-2010, 03:53 AM	#1
imaspy Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 294	What to do when you come up against multiple white balances? hey all i've had a great time with my Kx and assorted lenses thus far, but last week i came up against a dreaded challenge: shooting with multiple white balances. here is the scenario: i put my hand up to volunteer for photographing the work xmas party. issue is, we were at a restaurant, lit with downlights. our tables (two of them) were right next to the floor-to-ceiling windows. so i had warm indoor light coming down at me, and turn slightly to the right and it was natural / cloudy white balance. i did the best i could - nothing like being thrown in the deep end eh?? i tried the following: 1. auto white balance: results - no use. the camera got too confused. 2. shooting cloudy: only good half the time 3. shooting tungsten: as above 4. manual WB: waaay too much effort when trying to capture "the moment". so basically, i had to bring most if not all of the shots back to something normal-looking in post. my question to you all is, what would have been the best option? A. shoot in manual WB B. choose just one WB and bring it all back to a median in post C. something i didnt know about that you can tell me opinions? (if sample images would help explain what i'm talking about, just let me know and i'll post a couple) cheers all andrew.

12-14-2010, 05:17 AM	#5
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	I'm glad to hear that. I've had the same thing happen to me. Sometimes I get a favorable comment regarding the photo being in b/w and freely admit to the person that I only did it because the colors were so screwed I didn't have any other choice. Do give thought to using RAW. As you have seen from this experience, at the very least it is worth it to have one large monkey removed from your back at the time of shooting, when you have enough on your mind already. Also, it is much easier to adjust white balance with RAW files as the setting is done to an absolute standard (a numerical value) easily applied across all photos taken under similar circumstances. While it may not always be possible to get everything just like you want it when faced with multiple light sources such as you had, at the very least once you work out a compromise value you can live with on one of the photos you can apply it to all the photos and have consistency across all of them. Mixed light sources can have a sort of visually jarring effect on the photo, but probably not as jarring as having the colors not being consistent from shot to shot, which is hard to avoid when working with JPG. Last edited by Mike Cash; 12-14-2010 at 05:23 AM.

12-17-2010, 12:27 PM	#14
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	you can also get a great lens-cap for setting WB a little more expensive than a grey card but more durable. there are also some varied grey cards out there (cinematographer tools) that let you pick from cool to warm whites not sheap but really precise tools http://www.warmcards.com/WC1.html Last edited by eddie1960; 12-17-2010 at 12:29 PM. Reason: add link

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12-14-2010, 04:07 AM	#2
jolepp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Finland Photos: Albums Posts: 3,196	I think post is the thing for such varying circumstances. You might set for either common case and save some work that way. The nice thing about shooting RAW is that you can completely compensate for this sort of thing as you work from what the sensor captured.

12-14-2010, 04:41 AM	#3
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	The only half-joking answer: shoot in b/w mode. White balance problems disappear. The only time I shoot JPG is if I am in b/w mode. If I am shooting in color, I shoot in RAW and one of the main reasons is that I don't have to give the slightest bit of thought to white balance while I am taking pictures. It is much easier to take care of that when I get back home. Sometimes even if I am shooting with an eye toward the final output in color I will have the camera set to b/w mode so that what I see on the rear LCD review is in b/w. That way I can just review the photo for things like exposure, composition, focus, etc and not be distracted by colors that may be "off" due to white balance problems.

12-14-2010, 05:11 AM	#4
imaspy Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 294 Original Poster	yeah half-joking reply mike, fair comment :P a few of the shots were good shots, composition-wise, but the colours were just lost. so i ended up making a few of them b&w to avoid having to correct them too much, and it worked well

12-14-2010, 05:34 AM	#6
eccs19 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lisle, Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,510	I've not done this before, but I think it's an option that would work. If you had a white balance card, you can use this ahead of time and set your white balance to custom. Your manual should give you the details on how to do this. Any good camera shop should have one of these cards.

12-14-2010, 06:14 AM	#7
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,887	what I do is set one WB for the mode I want to shoot in, Av Tv Manual etc, and then set the exact same mode for the User Mode with the other WB setting, just switch back and forth between modes on the mode dial as you point the camera. Otherwise if you don't want to do that shoot daylight and adjust the other back in PP. Thsi even works with JPEGs

12-15-2010, 02:49 PM	#8
tybeck Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 452	Second on the set manual to a grey card. You could also just stay in one in-camera white balance, shot a grey card and then adjust in PP. The synchronize function in Lightroom or ACR (or copy and paste in Lightroom or Aperture) would make this easier. Set one white balance and then just apply it to all of the pictures with the same light.

12-15-2010, 04:24 PM	#9
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	If you use Lightroom, you can set the white balance by selecting the white balance dropper tool and clicking on a white object in the photo - a table cloth, a white shirt, etc.... Lightroom will make that object white and set the white balance of the rest of the photo accordingly. It's basically a poor man's (or lazy man's) grey card. It's not always perfect but it will get you in the ballpark. Other post programs probably have similar functionality. In a situation like that I'd work to get some wide shots of the event and venue plus close-ups and candids of the attendees. The venue shots I'd keep in color, but I'd have no qualms about converting the closeups and candid to B&W as they'll likely look more flattering that way.

12-17-2010, 12:10 AM	#10
WerTicus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Perth Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,514	shoot raw figure it out later

12-17-2010, 12:45 AM	#11
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	Originally posted by WerTicus shoot raw figure it out later "Lieutenant Dan said we didn't have to worry about white balance anymore.....which is good, 'cause that's one less thing."

12-17-2010, 12:13 PM	#12
cwood Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: California Posts: 851	Ask any working photographer what they will do when the encounter mixed lighting and they will most likely give you the same answer ... B&W. I encounter this all the time at weddings and indoor events. A big window on one side of the room and a bunch of artificial lighting coming from the other side. You get a face that is half red and half blue. As John said above - the wide shots may be OK in color because the close-up details will not be visible and showing the horrible color casts.... but close-up shots will need to be converted to monochrome (sepia or B&W).

12-17-2010, 12:26 PM	#13
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by johnmflores If you use Lightroom, you can set the white balance by selecting the white balance dropper tool and clicking on a white object in the photo - a table cloth, a white shirt, etc.... Lightroom will make that object white and set the white balance of the rest of the photo accordingly. It's basically a poor man's (or lazy man's) grey card. It's not always perfect but it will get you in the ballpark. Other post programs probably have similar functionality. In a situation like that I'd work to get some wide shots of the event and venue plus close-ups and candids of the attendees. The venue shots I'd keep in color, but I'd have no qualms about converting the closeups and candid to B&W as they'll likely look more flattering that way. The Pentax software does this as well and in some scenarios better than lightroom. on another thread (about led lighting) there was a scene with magenta light (no green led just varying red and blue), fortunately one of the entertainers was wearing a white shirt. the pentax just nailed it, light room still struggled (led light is an extreme scenario though, I've always gone b/w in that case, but after reading the thread i may process the wb with silkypix (never thought i'd say that)

12-17-2010, 09:10 PM	#15
alohadave Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Quincy, MA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,024	Originally posted by cwood Ask any working photographer what they will do when the encounter mixed lighting and they will most likely give you the same answer ... B&W. I encounter this all the time at weddings and indoor events. A big window on one side of the room and a bunch of artificial lighting coming from the other side. You get a face that is half red and half blue. As John said above - the wide shots may be OK in color because the close-up details will not be visible and showing the horrible color casts.... but close-up shots will need to be converted to monochrome (sepia or B&W). Eh, no. If you have lots of daylight influencing the shots, you use flash or daylight balance and let the tungsten fall where it will. People will accept deep orange lights much easier than blue windows.