sunrise photo help

jfrejo · 10-01-2007, 07:10 PM

While on vacation I took lots of sunrise pictures. I had a problem with lens flare on all of them. I was using a K100D with the 18-55 kit lens w/uv filter and lens hood. Could it be because the camera lens was the same level as the rising sun? Can anyone give me any advice to eliminate the flare, I have attached a sample picture to show the type of flare. thanks, John

Attached Images

View Picture EXIF

borno · 10-01-2007, 07:29 PM

hey john,
I think I'd try without the UV filter maybe that's causing more flare than you'd expect to see. worth a try anyways

blwnhr · 10-01-2007, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by jfrejo

w/uv filter

There's your problem. Get the same thing with headlights of a car coming toward you.

axl · 10-02-2007, 01:27 PM

Is uv filter causing that much flare? How about CPL?
I find it hart to get shot looking into setting sun without flare and I'm getting anoyed with it. When I'm using my CPL (Cokin glass - screw on type) I'm not using UV (Hoya). Any insights?
thanx

khardur · 10-02-2007, 05:40 PM

Different aperture settings will cause lens flare too - especially if the point of light (in this case the bit of sun sticking through that cloud) is smallish compared to the rest of the screen. You could experiment with the same exposure settings, just adjusting the aperture/shutter speed ratio and see what you come up with. A small point of light at f16 or f22 will cause a star effect without a star filter. Try taking a night scene in the city at some point and you'll see this effect.

That said, when I do sunrise/sunsets I usually lose whatever glass I can in front of the lens, it only will exacerbate the problem. But in your shot above, honestly I don't mind it. Sometimes it's nice, sometimes it's not.

jfrejo · 10-02-2007, 06:53 PM

Thank you for the advice. The photos I took were the first time shooting a sunrise. I took pictures on three different mornings and most of them have flare worse than this one, its a shame because most have very nice colors in the sky. I will try not using a filter next time.
thanks,
John

**Lowell Goudge** · 10-03-2007, 05:22 AM

You have prompted me to go and look at my sunrise and sunset shots, which was surprising as I do not get flair and use a UV filter, plus on occasion a stacked polarizing filter.

You might want to try a polarizing filter also.

Additionally, as others have noted this can be caused by bright lights and the filter. In fact at one point there was a special filter sold that produced exactly this result, only more pronounced. It got me thinking about how you clean your filters, and streaks on the filter (or perhaps the finish of the filter itself). I get the same effect with my eye glasses when they are streaked.

Petthefish · 10-03-2007, 06:20 AM

for sunrise and sunset pics I have always used a polarizing filter. Sometimes if the pics are blwoing out to bright I will break out the ND8 filter rp

philmorley · 10-03-2007, 06:32 AM

personally for the shot you've posted, I'd play with the colour and luminance curves in lab mode a bit, but I quite like the flare in that shot (but thats all just me

)

Phil

TaoMaas · 10-03-2007, 07:33 AM

This isn't as true as it once was, but I think you'll find zoom lenses tend to flare more than prime lenses.

bymy141 · 10-03-2007, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

This isn't as true as it once was, but I think you'll find zoom lenses tend to flare more than prime lenses.

Can anyone help me with this?

I have similar experiences.
Following pictures were made with my Tamron 18-250 at 145mm, ISO 200, f 5.6. I.e. a zoom lens.

I've used bracketing to look for the best results.
Here you can see the differences:

Ev +0.5:
Attachment 5100

Ev --:
Attachment 5101

Ev +1.0:
Attachment 5102

Ev -0.5:
Attachment 5103

Ev +1.5:
Attachment 5104

At the higher Ev values you can see not only the flare to increasse, also the shape of the sun is starting to deform.
I did not do any PP.
Can anyone explane this to me please?

Thanks.

- Bert

**Ahab** · 10-03-2007, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by philmorley

personally for the shot you've posted, I'd play with the colour and luminance curves in lab mode a bit, but I quite like the flare in that shot (but thats all just me

)

Phil

Me too! Not just you.****

**Lowell Goudge** · 10-03-2007, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by bymy141

Can anyone help me with this?

I have similar experiences.
Following pictures were made with my Tamron 18-250 at 145mm, ISO 200, f 5.6. I.e. a zoom lens.

I've used bracketing to look for the best results.
Here you can see the differences:

Ev +0.5:
Attachment 5100

Ev --:
Attachment 5101

Ev +1.0:
Attachment 5102

Ev -0.5:
Attachment 5103

Ev +1.5:
Attachment 5104

At the higher Ev values you can see not only the flare to increasse, also the shape of the sun is starting to deform.
I did not do any PP.
Can anyone explane this to me please?

Thanks.

- Bert

Bert

I don't think you have flair but actually the sun casting "rays" on humid air where it pokes through the clouds. Flair will be manifested by narrow and symetrical lines.

DIstortion of th esun is probably gross over-exposure

MJB DIGITAL · 10-03-2007, 12:40 PM

its not a bad shot anyway

bymy141 · 10-04-2007, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

Bert

I don't think you have flair but actually the sun casting "rays" on humid air where it pokes through the clouds. Flair will be manifested by narrow and symetrical lines.

DIstortion of th esun is probably gross over-exposure

Lowell,

Thanks for your response.

I've always understood that the source of the ray shape flares is reflection of the edges of the diafragma inside the lens. And so you can tell the number of leaves of your the diaframa by counting the number of flares. Following that reasoning a round shaped diafragma will create a equal flare. Not seperate beams.
So I thought that the flare kind of light evenly distributed in the +Ev shots comes from a round shaped diafragma. Am I wrong here? I'm not the expert of this.
Anyone?

Now the sun's shape. Adding +1.5 Ev significantly distorts the sun's shape in ways not expected in the 0 Ev picture. Where does that come from?
Evidently the +1.5 Ev is the trigger of something happening. What is that? The jpg algorithm? Anything else? What does adding +1.5 Ev actually do in your camera? It does not change ISO, or exposure time, or diafragma. At least not according to the EXIF data. It does make the picture lighter however. Is increasing the amplification of the sensor analog signal? (always thought that was done by increasing ISO value), is adding some sort of post processing to your picture? Anyone knows? I'm just curious.
Unfortunatly I did not shoot these pictures in RAW+ mode to see the difference...

I sure would like to understand what actually happens when you are changing the Ev value.
Anyone please?

- Bert

10-03-2007, 09:21 AM	#11
bymy141 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,563	Originally posted by TaoMaas This isn't as true as it once was, but I think you'll find zoom lenses tend to flare more than prime lenses. Can anyone help me with this? I have similar experiences. Following pictures were made with my Tamron 18-250 at 145mm, ISO 200, f 5.6. I.e. a zoom lens. I've used bracketing to look for the best results. Here you can see the differences: Ev +0.5: Attachment 5100 Ev --: Attachment 5101 Ev +1.0: Attachment 5102 Ev -0.5: Attachment 5103 Ev +1.5: Attachment 5104 At the higher Ev values you can see not only the flare to increasse, also the shape of the sun is starting to deform. I did not do any PP. Can anyone explane this to me please? Thanks. - Bert Last edited by bymy141; 11-29-2007 at 09:33 AM.

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10-01-2007, 07:29 PM	#2
borno Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: md-usa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,580	hey john, I think I'd try without the UV filter maybe that's causing more flare than you'd expect to see. worth a try anyways

10-01-2007, 07:50 PM	#3
blwnhr Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 663	Originally posted by jfrejo w/uv filter There's your problem. Get the same thing with headlights of a car coming toward you.

10-02-2007, 01:27 PM	#4
axl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nove Zamky, Slovakia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,183	Is uv filter causing that much flare? How about CPL? I find it hart to get shot looking into setting sun without flare and I'm getting anoyed with it. When I'm using my CPL (Cokin glass - screw on type) I'm not using UV (Hoya). Any insights? thanx

10-02-2007, 05:40 PM	#5
khardur Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Massachusetts Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,560	Different aperture settings will cause lens flare too - especially if the point of light (in this case the bit of sun sticking through that cloud) is smallish compared to the rest of the screen. You could experiment with the same exposure settings, just adjusting the aperture/shutter speed ratio and see what you come up with. A small point of light at f16 or f22 will cause a star effect without a star filter. Try taking a night scene in the city at some point and you'll see this effect. That said, when I do sunrise/sunsets I usually lose whatever glass I can in front of the lens, it only will exacerbate the problem. But in your shot above, honestly I don't mind it. Sometimes it's nice, sometimes it's not.

10-02-2007, 06:53 PM	#6
jfrejo New Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PA Photos: Gallery Posts: 20 Original Poster	Thank you for the advice. The photos I took were the first time shooting a sunrise. I took pictures on three different mornings and most of them have flare worse than this one, its a shame because most have very nice colors in the sky. I will try not using a filter next time. thanks, John

10-03-2007, 05:22 AM	#7
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	You have prompted me to go and look at my sunrise and sunset shots, which was surprising as I do not get flair and use a UV filter, plus on occasion a stacked polarizing filter. You might want to try a polarizing filter also. Additionally, as others have noted this can be caused by bright lights and the filter. In fact at one point there was a special filter sold that produced exactly this result, only more pronounced. It got me thinking about how you clean your filters, and streaks on the filter (or perhaps the finish of the filter itself). I get the same effect with my eye glasses when they are streaked.

10-03-2007, 06:20 AM	#8
Petthefish Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Portland, or Photos: Gallery Posts: 155	for sunrise and sunset pics I have always used a polarizing filter. Sometimes if the pics are blwoing out to bright I will break out the ND8 filter rp

10-03-2007, 06:32 AM	#9
philmorley Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: in a house in Armidale, Australia Posts: 472	personally for the shot you've posted, I'd play with the colour and luminance curves in lab mode a bit, but I quite like the flare in that shot (but thats all just me ) Phil

10-03-2007, 07:33 AM	#10
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	This isn't as true as it once was, but I think you'll find zoom lenses tend to flare more than prime lenses.

10-03-2007, 09:56 AM	#12
Ahab Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Arnold, Md. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 762	Originally posted by philmorley personally for the shot you've posted, I'd play with the colour and luminance curves in lab mode a bit, but I quite like the flare in that shot (but thats all just me ) Phil Me too! Not just you.****

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10-03-2007, 12:13 PM	#13
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	Originally posted by bymy141 Can anyone help me with this? I have similar experiences. Following pictures were made with my Tamron 18-250 at 145mm, ISO 200, f 5.6. I.e. a zoom lens. I've used bracketing to look for the best results. Here you can see the differences: Ev +0.5: Attachment 5100 Ev --: Attachment 5101 Ev +1.0: Attachment 5102 Ev -0.5: Attachment 5103 Ev +1.5: Attachment 5104 At the higher Ev values you can see not only the flare to increasse, also the shape of the sun is starting to deform. I did not do any PP. Can anyone explane this to me please? Thanks. - Bert Bert I don't think you have flair but actually the sun casting "rays" on humid air where it pokes through the clouds. Flair will be manifested by narrow and symetrical lines. DIstortion of th esun is probably gross over-exposure

10-03-2007, 12:40 PM	#14
MJB DIGITAL Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: st. louis Posts: 1,170	its not a bad shot anyway

10-04-2007, 10:09 AM	#15
bymy141 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,563	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge Bert I don't think you have flair but actually the sun casting "rays" on humid air where it pokes through the clouds. Flair will be manifested by narrow and symetrical lines. DIstortion of th esun is probably gross over-exposure Lowell, Thanks for your response. I've always understood that the source of the ray shape flares is reflection of the edges of the diafragma inside the lens. And so you can tell the number of leaves of your the diaframa by counting the number of flares. Following that reasoning a round shaped diafragma will create a equal flare. Not seperate beams. So I thought that the flare kind of light evenly distributed in the +Ev shots comes from a round shaped diafragma. Am I wrong here? I'm not the expert of this. Anyone? Now the sun's shape. Adding +1.5 Ev significantly distorts the sun's shape in ways not expected in the 0 Ev picture. Where does that come from? Evidently the +1.5 Ev is the trigger of something happening. What is that? The jpg algorithm? Anything else? What does adding +1.5 Ev actually do in your camera? It does not change ISO, or exposure time, or diafragma. At least not according to the EXIF data. It does make the picture lighter however. Is increasing the amplification of the sensor analog signal? (always thought that was done by increasing ISO value), is adding some sort of post processing to your picture? Anyone knows? I'm just curious. Unfortunatly I did not shoot these pictures in RAW+ mode to see the difference... I sure would like to understand what actually happens when you are changing the Ev value. Anyone please? - Bert