[jleef]

My friends band are playing a couple of gigs in the next few weeks and I've offered to take photos at one of them (the Ruskin Arms in London, just in case anybody here knows it!) so I'm posting here to see if anybody can share some tips and advice for small venue gig photography?

I'll be shooting with my new K100D Super and the 18-55 kit lens. I'd rather not use a flash of course, partly because I only have the on-camera flash and partly because I'd rather not annoy the band and audience too much!

In terms of camera settings I'm thinking of using aperture priority with the lowest setting (so f3.5 for most shots I guess), shooting in raw so I'll have better adjustment later over white balance and exposure, and using single center-point AF mode so the camera doesn't lock onto any flashing lights or anything I don't want focused on. I'll also probably use auto ISO mode since I'm hoping this will cover the range of available light adequately.

Am I on the right track or can anybody make any further suggestions? Grateful for any info.

Jamie

[MJB DIGITAL]

i like shooting bands....

i havent got to do it enough though
(so i went and got hired on as a freelancer for a music mag!)

but when i shoot bands, i do use flash.
i know a girl who shoots on the k110d and she has some killer shots
<br> <a href="http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm15c3BhY2UuY29tL2hicGhvdG9ncmFwaHk=" target="_blank"><img src="http://images14.fotki.com/v371/photos/9/931845/4404309/Animation5-vi.gif" border="0"></a> <br>

she uses a popup flash....

[MJB DIGITAL]

if it is a small show with a small stage you can just stand right up front....but the last time i did that the band got so wild i had to get out of there or be crushed by a bunch of 14yr old girls....jeez

i would definately use flash, high iso, and i would be really really cool and good looking

yeah baby

[George Lama]

Since you're using the kit lens, you might want to keep it wide open to get 3.5 out of it. Obviously with it at 18-22, you're not going to get too many closeups unless you get on stage with them Any chance you can borrow a bit longer lens? A 100mm or 135mm fixed 2.8 might be a good second lens to have for small venues.

The auto-ISO should help, but I've had mixed results with super high ISOs at low speeds. The grain can get real heavy, so do a few test shots and check your photos to see if they fit your need (for web use, promotion, posters, etc).

Watch your feet and the beer. Chairs, boozemaids, drunks, and happy people can make for some wicked obstacles and I don't think Pentax makes for beer-proof cameras!

Don't hesitate to use the built-in flash once in a while, particularly when getting band shots. They should expect a bit of that, particularly since they know you're there.

Most of all, have fun! Don't be so worried about grabbing the shot you miss something.

Enjoy and do post some samples!

[AVANT]

I don't think you have a choice but to use the flash. Places are usually dark and they are moving fairly fast. Unless you're going for a specific blur shot, you may be forced to use the flash.

Anyways, try this if your original idea doesn't work.

- Use built in flash, -0.3 Flash compensation, 2nd curtain sync.
- Shutter speed priority (the 2nd curtain sync will make the camera measuring for ambient lighting), note your shutter will be fairly slow to obtain the proper exposure.
- Auto ISO

Play with the flash compensation accordingly. The flash will give the picture a frozen motion after some blur from the fairly long shutter speed.

[leadbelly]

I shoot gigs as well, but it's mostly at night so here's what I do...

- If it's really dark, I use flash or if a flash effect is needed(I use an external flash though)
- If I'll be using available light without a flash, I bump the ISO up to 1600. 800 most of the time though.
- I use spot metering
- Also, get up on stage with them. Since they are your friends, you have total access! Get up close! BUt be careful of course...

[hollyblann]

I do a lot of local concert photography...(the guy who replied to this first recommended that you check out my page)
I shoot with the K110D.
most of the venues that I go to don't have adequate lighting to shoot without flash, so I use flash a lot. I don't have an external flash either.
when I do take pictures without flash though, I use an ISO of 3200 and set the aperture as wide as it will go. I always use the manual setting.
I also recommend getting a spot up front against the stage, and even get on stage if you can...make sure you get lots of good shots of the drummer because most photographers forget about the drummer.
if the band moves around a lot it's usually (but not always) better to use flash.

[PDL]

To begin – a little research.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-pentax-photography/11163-band-promo-photography.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-pentax-photography/11412-first-pa...what-rush.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/everything-else/10418-help-letter-release.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/everything-else/9736-got-shoot-now-how-do-i-charge.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-talk/7644-just-permission-waivers.html

Make sure you have a firm agreement on who owns what – I just purchased a set of CD’s featuring the band Judas Priest and in the cover notes the photographers were mentioned and their copyrights were noted. Make sure you have that in writing (a contract) over who gets what, how much you get paid and who owns the rights.

As for actually shooting the gig, I would use my FA 50mm f1.4 and get up close, as close as you can get. I would also work with the band to make a big story of it.
Shoot them driving to the gig, setting up, playing, breaking down and get backstage with them – get those images that will pay off if/when they hit it big.
Shoot as if you are going for the cover of Rolling Stone.
Check with the venue to see if they have any restrictions about photography.
Carry at least two sets of fresh batteries and as many SD cards as you can get. I carry my blank SD cards in one pocket, when I change the cards, I lock the one that just came out of the camera and put it in another pocket. I format the one that just went into the camera and if I find a SD card that is locked – it dig for one that is not.
Don’t spend too much time chimping as the “good” one might get away.
Do not get drunk or eat too much.
This is really a job – treat it as such.

Oh – have a good time too – just do not let your ears bleed to much.

PDL – the elitist

[Lowell Goudge]

I would have to agree with others in this forum, and shoot (if you have it) with an F1.4 50mm (I use a Kmount manual focus). You will need to be close but you have indicated this is a possibility. Your kit lens may be a little slow. I did a coffee shop performance with my daughter this way. Talk about close to the subject, but 50mm was just right. I was 12-15 feet away! any further back and you will need a longer lens.

Perhaps one of the new 50-135/150 F2.8 lenses would be an asset, or if you have the time to change lenses, dedicated, but faster prime lenses, say 70mm, 85mm, 100mm, 135mm etc. This all depends on what you have available.


I would also avoid using the on board flash, if at all possible, opting either for natural light, or external flash. The on board flash opens up the possibility of red-eye, and red eye reduction also burns batteries.

Aside from the important legal stuff (which I did not need to worry about as I did not intend to publish), the most important thing, again said by others, is to set the camera in manual, and pick the settings you want (especially in flash mode if you use it) You need to be careful about controlling the flash to natural light ratio, I would not trust automatic settings.

The other thing that would be useful, and I am not sure you will be able to, is to either watch a rehersal, or the real show in advance of the shoot. You need to know what is going to happen to get the best shots. This is the same with stage performances. Knowing when a good moment will happen is very important.

[jro]

I shoot bands with my K100D. I don't use any flash. You can see some of my pics at my flickr account in my signature.

My experience is that in most venues, the lighting is very poor. Shooting at f/3.5 requires kicking the sensitivity up to at least ISO 1600, and usually ISO 3200, if you want your exposure times to be better than 1/10. I pick that time because it's the most you can get away with and still have any hope of avoiding motion blur. Sticking to the wide end of your lens will keep the f-stop low and help minimize the appearance of motion blur as your subjects will cover a smaller angle of view. You can select these ISO settings manually or adjust the auto ISO range to include them via the Custom Setting menu.

You're on the right track by switching to center spot auto focus. The AF tends to misbehave in low light. You may want to set the OK button function to "Enable AF" so that it only works when you tell it to.

You'll probably also want to use spot metering, especially if the lighting is uneven. This is a situation where recomposing is very useful.

Two other recommendations: First, this is a situation where a 50mm f/1.4 really shines. The FA version that's available new is absolutely worth the money. Old manual versions are readily available as well. Second, while flashes may be distracting, good lighting isn't. Since you're friends with the band, see if you can't convince them to use some extra lighting.

[jleef]

Thanks for all the advice everybody, some really good info here and I appreciate the comments.

In terms of legal rights and payment, I'll be keeping it casual for this gig although I will specifiy to the band that copyright remains mine for the pictures. As photography is still pretty new to me I'm not claiming any sort of pro or semi-pro status with the band, but should I work with them again I will - at this point it's just good practice for me but as a part-time freelance designer and musician I'm also aware of copyright and related matters.

The band themselves play doom metal, so there isn't going to be much moving around on stage (!) and from what I remember of the venue, (having played there myself in my band some years back) there shouldn't be any problem with me being right on the edge of the stage for a lot of the set. I'll try and take some onstage too so long as the drummer and rest of the band don't consider it a distraction.

I'll probably use the onboard flash for a few but I'm hoping to use higher ISOs for most - I'll boost the auto setting range to 200-1600 if this is possible. I'll also use single point AF and spot-metering as suggested.

One more question - would JPEG be OK or is raw highly recommended in this situation? I'm just thinking ahead about the need for rapid-shooting and storage capacity, and the only real advantage I can see about raw in this scenario is better post-processing white-balance control. As this can be adjusted in Adobe Lightroom afterwards, and considering I'll probably channel-mix a lot of the pics to B&W anyway (to suit the bands image better), would JPEG be a viable option?

Thanks again for the advice.

[Lowell Goudge]

One more question - would JPEG be OK or is raw highly recommended in this situation? I'm just thinking ahead about the need for rapid-shooting and storage capacity, and the only real advantage I can see about raw in this scenario is better post-processing white-balance control. As this can be adjusted in Adobe Lightroom afterwards, and considering I'll probably channel-mix a lot of the pics to B&W anyway (to suit the bands image better), would JPEG be a viable option?

Thanks again for the advice.

High quality Jpeg is just fine when you are shooting at high ISO. No one is going to be pixle peeping at a 1600 ISO photo, they are all noisy. You can help a little by setting JPEG quality to maximum, sharpness and saturation to neutral.

Don't try to make something sharp and saturated when you don't need to

[AVANT]

If you can get proper exposures, JPG will probably work. If you find that you're unable to get a good enough exposure tho without the flash, you can use RAW and underexpose a little to give yourself a little extra speed advantage. Use your RAW converter to bring the exposure back to normal.

[jleef]

Well...that was certainly a learning experience!

The venue wasn't overly packed, so I was easily able to move about and get right up to the stage. I decided to shoot raw at the last minute, just to give me more control over white-balance - however there was an old set list written on white paper on the stage floor so I was able to take a manual reading from that - worked pretty well apart from a few flash pics.

My plan to shoot in Av went straight out of the window - not wanting to shoot at 3200 meant that I was getting shutter speeds of well over a second in the light I had - resulting in pure mud! I switched to Tv pretty early on, using the built in flash, and went with shutter speeds from 0.3 to 1 second, giving me a range of nice motion blur with the flash to give a nice crisp shot too.

A few other things - I'll be definitely getting an external flash if I wind up doing many more gig shoots - the built-in one did ok most of the time but for anything further out it just didn't have the guts. I'd also consider a fast 50mm prime as people have suggested (I may even go manual as the AF was panicking a lot during the set) as I spent most of the show shooting at the far end of the zoom. Not only that but I think a faster lens is a must - a lot of the shots were coming out really dark and I had to boost the exposure by 1.0 to 1.5 to get anything out of them.

Other than that it was a good learning opportunity. I think I'll be working on manual focusing skills next, along with better metering - some of the shots probably could have come out better if I locked the light-reading to other areas rather than with the centre-point AF. Still, I think I did ok!

Will be posting some pics here once I've done the necessary tweakings but for now must dash as I'm off to the studio with my own band

EDIT: One other thing I noticed - having an slr around your neck really does give you a sense of power! Although I kept out of peoples way, moved quickly to and from the stage sides, kept down low when taking shots and generally tried not to be an arse, people were quick to move out of my way and let me pass - "Oh, that guy's got a big camera, best let him through as he knows what he's doing"! haha...

[jleef]

As I mentioned above, here's a couple of the bettes ones of the night:







I personally think that a lot of the shots from the night would look better in B&W but I'm leaving that decision (and the extra tweaking involved!) to the band.