How to safely shoot sunsets?

sweetpapa · 01-25-2011, 05:40 PM

On a recent trip to one of the island resorts in the Philippines (Barocay), I must have spent 45 minutes shooting the beautiful sunset there with my new K-5.

The trip was an excuse to buy the K-5, but my wife wasn't happy initially

No regrets now, though!

I'm getting off track. After spending 45 minutes shooting sunsets there on the beach, I was worried that I might have burned out my retina or caused permanent vision damage.

Are my concerns justified or does the viewfinder on DSLR's and / or combined with the lower intensity light of the sunset provide some safety for shooting

How do you safely shoot a sunset when you have to look through a viewfinder to compose and shoot them with a DSLR?

In retrospect, I could have used Liveview.

magkelly · 01-25-2011, 06:01 PM

You use a polarizer or wear polarized sunglasses, seriously, and try not to look directly at the sun for too long. The viewer is probably better for that too. Less looking directly at the sun, but if you must for lengthy intervals? You need really good sunglasses to protect your eyes. It's even more important as you get closer to the equator. Here, I never set foot outside sans my sunglasses. It's bad on the eyes just being outdoors. Sunsets are less of a problem than midday sun, but still better to be safe than not. It's not ideal for taking pics, but it's better for you, for your safety.

cwood · 01-25-2011, 06:13 PM

I actually asked my optometrist about this last month when I was in for a checkup. I do a lot of portraits into the sun ... so not always just at "sunset".

He said it was not a problem.

But still... next time you visit the eye doctor ask the question.

sewebster · 01-25-2011, 07:02 PM

The glass in the lens/finder will likely be blocking all/most of the UV so shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Frogfish · 01-26-2011, 12:06 AM

I'd be more worried about another aspect of taking shots on the beach after sunset ..... the Philippine resorts are getting a reputation to match the rest of the country with regard to robbery, kidnapping and worse. I love the country (and the great scuba diving) but things have deteriorated considerably.

I'd make sure I took my shots within a few metres of bars / hotels on the beach and not much further away than that, definitely not in any isolated places.

Stay safe and think of personal security before taking a few shots.

**pacerr** · 01-26-2011, 10:31 AM

Use a very long focal length lens. If you move around too much while looking through the VF searching for the best composition you might inadvertently step off the western edge of the world when using a UWA.

The refraction of the sun's rays near the horizon eliminates harmful, short wavelength energy leaving only the red spectrum at dawn and dusk.

The 'Green Flash' one sometimes sees at sunset occurs as the green wavelength is lost from the prism effect in the color spectrum.

sweetpapa · 01-26-2011, 02:13 PM

Thanks for your replies.

I would feel safer with some sun glasses next time.

@cwood - Glad to hear it's not so much of a problem from your optometrist.

**BigDave** · 01-26-2011, 02:16 PM

Keep in mind, the problems of looking into the sun and "burning the retina" have most of their effect during solar eclipses. This is because the eye dilates open for the low level of visual light though there is still a great amount of UV energy coming from the sun, which is what will burn the retina. As long as the eye is dilated down quite a bit (and shooting into the sun will do this), you have one level of safety.

Second, at sunrise and sunset the light from the sun must get through the thickness of the atmosphere (which is why the sky is red orange, the Red, Yellow and IR are getting through), so much of the UV radiation is absorbed by the atmosphere already, another layer of protection.

Finally, you have the glass of the lens that is absorbing a great deal of UV. So you should be pretty safe, but ask the eye doctor also to be certain!

Regards,

reeftool · 01-27-2011, 08:52 AM

Many people probably spend more time each day looking straight into the sun on their daily commutes to work than you did shooting sunsets.

basditz · 01-27-2011, 02:30 PM

When you look through the viewfinder of a DSLR you're not looking at the sun itself, but looking at the picture of the sun on the focus screen.

Almost the same as looking at a sunset on tv.

**BigDave** · 01-27-2011, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by basditz

When you look through the viewfinder of a DSLR you're not looking at the sun itself, but looking at the picture of the sun on the focus screen.

Almost the same as looking at a sunset on tv.

Only if the viewfinder is an electronic display (e.g., LCD). Otherwise it is an optical display and the light reflected from the viewing mirror up to the viewfinder IS reflecting the actual light from the scene/sun. However, depending on the optical system design, it may or may not reflect the UV energy.

Regards,

basditz · 01-28-2011, 12:38 AM

Originally posted by BigDave

Only if the viewfinder is an electronic display (e.g., LCD). Otherwise it is an optical display and the light reflected from the viewing mirror up to the viewfinder IS reflecting the actual light from the scene/sun. However, depending on the optical system design, it may or may not reflect the UV energy.

Regards,

No, this is also the case with an SLR with optical viewfinder. (it is one of the foundations of the SLR system).

If you remove the lens from your K-7 and look up into the top of the camera through the lens mount, you can see the focusing screen. This is a matte screen, you cannot see through it. The lens projects an image of the outside world onto this screen, just like it will do on the sensor when you take a picture and the mirror is moved up. What you see when you look through the viewfinder is the image that is projected on this matte screen.

You can try this for yourself quite easily: (and fun

)

Take a pair of binoculars. This will be the equivalent of the slr lens assembly. (it probably will be uv coated the same as your lenses are)
Dont look through them!
Point them at the sun. (did I mention not to look through them?)
hold a piece of paper behind the eyepiece so you get a nice sharp sun-dot on the paper. This is your matte focusscreen.
Now if the sun is strong enough and your focus is correct, you can even see the paper charring/burning. This is what would happen if you place your eyes directly in line with the lens, you would be blinded.
However it is quite safe to look at the dot that is projected on the paper, it might be bright but it is by far not intense enough to damage your eye, all heat is lost into the focusscreen/piece of paper.

**BigDave** · 01-28-2011, 08:27 AM

Yes, the image is project on the matte screen, but the matte screen is not opaque. It is just an improved version of simple ground glass, which is used on my view camera for focusing. But the only reason the matte screen is there is so the image can be seen (if it was clear glass you would not be able to focus or compose properly). The light hitting the matte screen is coming from the lens, after bouncing off the mirror in the camera. So you are seeing the light the lens let pass through, UV, IR and visual. Unless the bottom mirror absorbs UV light, then it is reflected towards the matte screen. The light hitting the matte screen is not absorbed by it, but is passed through the matte screen after being modified by the matte surface, which is why we see it. Unless the matte screen absorbs the UV light (which is possible), then the UV light would also pass to the eye.

Anyone do tests with a spectroradiometer that measures down to about 300nm (nanometers) out there? We could use some data.

Regards,

basditz · 01-28-2011, 12:48 PM

(Too much yes no here

)

The point is that almost all light is scattered/absorbed by the screen.

Consider a slide projected on a suspended bedsheet. You can view the projection from all angles, from the front, from the back, from the side, from
This is because the light from the projection lens is scattered in all directions. This scattering causes the amount of light reaching your eye to reduce exponentially.

Thats exactly whats happening on the focusing screen.

**BigDave** · 01-28-2011, 01:40 PM

However, light is still coming to the eye. Now although it COULD includee UV energy, the optical system has probably filtered most of it out by the time it gets to the retina.

We can argue the details, but they are probably safer shooting the sunset than driving home, facing a sunset in the evening, as Reeftool mentioned!

01-25-2011, 05:40 PM	#1
sweetpapa Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 64	How to safely shoot sunsets? On a recent trip to one of the island resorts in the Philippines (Barocay), I must have spent 45 minutes shooting the beautiful sunset there with my new K-5. The trip was an excuse to buy the K-5, but my wife wasn't happy initially No regrets now, though! I'm getting off track. After spending 45 minutes shooting sunsets there on the beach, I was worried that I might have burned out my retina or caused permanent vision damage. Are my concerns justified or does the viewfinder on DSLR's and / or combined with the lower intensity light of the sunset provide some safety for shooting How do you safely shoot a sunset when you have to look through a viewfinder to compose and shoot them with a DSLR? In retrospect, I could have used Liveview.

01-27-2011, 07:27 PM	#11
BigDave Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,626	On the TV Originally posted by basditz When you look through the viewfinder of a DSLR you're not looking at the sun itself, but looking at the picture of the sun on the focus screen. Almost the same as looking at a sunset on tv. Only if the viewfinder is an electronic display (e.g., LCD). Otherwise it is an optical display and the light reflected from the viewing mirror up to the viewfinder IS reflecting the actual light from the scene/sun. However, depending on the optical system design, it may or may not reflect the UV energy. Regards,

01-28-2011, 12:38 AM	#12
basditz Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 29	Originally posted by BigDave Only if the viewfinder is an electronic display (e.g., LCD). Otherwise it is an optical display and the light reflected from the viewing mirror up to the viewfinder IS reflecting the actual light from the scene/sun. However, depending on the optical system design, it may or may not reflect the UV energy. Regards, No, this is also the case with an SLR with optical viewfinder. (it is one of the foundations of the SLR system). If you remove the lens from your K-7 and look up into the top of the camera through the lens mount, you can see the focusing screen. This is a matte screen, you cannot see through it. The lens projects an image of the outside world onto this screen, just like it will do on the sensor when you take a picture and the mirror is moved up. What you see when you look through the viewfinder is the image that is projected on this matte screen. You can try this for yourself quite easily: (and fun ) Take a pair of binoculars. This will be the equivalent of the slr lens assembly. (it probably will be uv coated the same as your lenses are) Dont look through them! Point them at the sun. (did I mention not to look through them?) hold a piece of paper behind the eyepiece so you get a nice sharp sun-dot on the paper. This is your matte focusscreen. Now if the sun is strong enough and your focus is correct, you can even see the paper charring/burning. This is what would happen if you place your eyes directly in line with the lens, you would be blinded. However it is quite safe to look at the dot that is projected on the paper, it might be bright but it is by far not intense enough to damage your eye, all heat is lost into the focusscreen/piece of paper. Last edited by basditz; 01-28-2011 at 01:08 AM.

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01-25-2011, 06:01 PM	#2
magkelly Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,901	You use a polarizer or wear polarized sunglasses, seriously, and try not to look directly at the sun for too long. The viewer is probably better for that too. Less looking directly at the sun, but if you must for lengthy intervals? You need really good sunglasses to protect your eyes. It's even more important as you get closer to the equator. Here, I never set foot outside sans my sunglasses. It's bad on the eyes just being outdoors. Sunsets are less of a problem than midday sun, but still better to be safe than not. It's not ideal for taking pics, but it's better for you, for your safety.

01-25-2011, 06:13 PM	#3
cwood Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: California Posts: 851	I actually asked my optometrist about this last month when I was in for a checkup. I do a lot of portraits into the sun ... so not always just at "sunset". He said it was not a problem. But still... next time you visit the eye doctor ask the question.

01-25-2011, 07:02 PM	#4
sewebster Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Vancouver, BC Photos: Gallery Posts: 544	The glass in the lens/finder will likely be blocking all/most of the UV so shouldn't be too much of a problem.

01-26-2011, 12:06 AM	#5
Frogfish Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Shanghai Posts: 4,490	I'd be more worried about another aspect of taking shots on the beach after sunset ..... the Philippine resorts are getting a reputation to match the rest of the country with regard to robbery, kidnapping and worse. I love the country (and the great scuba diving) but things have deteriorated considerably. I'd make sure I took my shots within a few metres of bars / hotels on the beach and not much further away than that, definitely not in any isolated places. Stay safe and think of personal security before taking a few shots.

01-26-2011, 10:31 AM	#6
pacerr Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Paris, TN Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,350	Use a very long focal length lens. If you move around too much while looking through the VF searching for the best composition you might inadvertently step off the western edge of the world when using a UWA. The refraction of the sun's rays near the horizon eliminates harmful, short wavelength energy leaving only the red spectrum at dawn and dusk. The 'Green Flash' one sometimes sees at sunset occurs as the green wavelength is lost from the prism effect in the color spectrum.

01-26-2011, 02:13 PM	#7
sweetpapa Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 64 Original Poster	Thanks for your replies. I would feel safer with some sun glasses next time. @cwood - Glad to hear it's not so much of a problem from your optometrist.

01-26-2011, 02:16 PM	#8
BigDave Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,626	Keep in mind, the problems of looking into the sun and "burning the retina" have most of their effect during solar eclipses. This is because the eye dilates open for the low level of visual light though there is still a great amount of UV energy coming from the sun, which is what will burn the retina. As long as the eye is dilated down quite a bit (and shooting into the sun will do this), you have one level of safety. Second, at sunrise and sunset the light from the sun must get through the thickness of the atmosphere (which is why the sky is red orange, the Red, Yellow and IR are getting through), so much of the UV radiation is absorbed by the atmosphere already, another layer of protection. Finally, you have the glass of the lens that is absorbing a great deal of UV. So you should be pretty safe, but ask the eye doctor also to be certain! Regards,

01-27-2011, 08:52 AM	#9
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,555	Many people probably spend more time each day looking straight into the sun on their daily commutes to work than you did shooting sunsets.

01-27-2011, 02:30 PM	#10
basditz Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 29	When you look through the viewfinder of a DSLR you're not looking at the sun itself, but looking at the picture of the sun on the focus screen. Almost the same as looking at a sunset on tv.

01-28-2011, 08:27 AM	#13
BigDave Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,626	Yes, the image is project on the matte screen, but the matte screen is not opaque. It is just an improved version of simple ground glass, which is used on my view camera for focusing. But the only reason the matte screen is there is so the image can be seen (if it was clear glass you would not be able to focus or compose properly). The light hitting the matte screen is coming from the lens, after bouncing off the mirror in the camera. So you are seeing the light the lens let pass through, UV, IR and visual. Unless the bottom mirror absorbs UV light, then it is reflected towards the matte screen. The light hitting the matte screen is not absorbed by it, but is passed through the matte screen after being modified by the matte surface, which is why we see it. Unless the matte screen absorbs the UV light (which is possible), then the UV light would also pass to the eye. Anyone do tests with a spectroradiometer that measures down to about 300nm (nanometers) out there? We could use some data. Regards,

01-28-2011, 12:48 PM	#14
basditz Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 29	(Too much yes no here ) The point is that almost all light is scattered/absorbed by the screen. Consider a slide projected on a suspended bedsheet. You can view the projection from all angles, from the front, from the back, from the side, from This is because the light from the projection lens is scattered in all directions. This scattering causes the amount of light reaching your eye to reduce exponentially. Thats exactly whats happening on the focusing screen.

01-28-2011, 01:40 PM	#15
BigDave Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,626	However, light is still coming to the eye. Now although it COULD includee UV energy, the optical system has probably filtered most of it out by the time it gets to the retina. We can argue the details, but they are probably safer shooting the sunset than driving home, facing a sunset in the evening, as Reeftool mentioned!