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10-10-2007, 04:47 AM   #1
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Cokin P or Z series?

I am planning to buy a cokin filter adapter kit, but I am not sure which kit would be the best. It seems that P-series is meant to cameras like my K10D. On the other hand Z Pro seem to be for middle format but would allow more wide angle lenses.

Which kit would you recommend for K10D and wide side lenses? Any comments on the usability of cokin system is welcomed. My thoughts are to use regular B+W for polarizers and cokin for everything else (read: ND grads)

thanks
gawan

10-10-2007, 07:16 AM   #2
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Cokin P series

I have a Cokin P-series holder for my K10D. With the kit lens set at 18mm, its widest, there is no sign of vignetting, even with the Cokin clip-on lens shade in use. IOW, the P-series works well with the K10D. I also have a Tamron 28-200mm zoom that uses 72mm filters. I have an adapter for that lens as well.

As far as I can tell, the only real difference between the P-series and the Z-series is the size. The P filters are 84mm, while the Z filters are 100mm. You may find that the Z filters are more expensive and harder to find. The A and P filters show up on ebay all the time, both new and used, but I haven't seen many Z filters or holders.

The P holder has adapters for lenses up to 82mm. The K10D kit lens has a 52mm filter thread.

I'm happy with the P-series holder and filters. I see no reason to go to the Z-series, but, then, its your camera and your money.

The A-series filters are 67mm and fit lenses up to 62mm. That would be fine for the kit lens, but would probably not work for many lenses. It certainly wouldn't work for my Tamron zoom.

Paul Noble
10-10-2007, 10:47 AM   #3
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Thank you Paul for your comment, P-series sounds like a good choise. Vignetting was my main worry. Do you think P-adapter would work nice also with Sigmas 10-20mm wide zoom. Measurewise it should (I mean sigma has 77mm filter fit), but what about the angle?

Someone told me Cokin adapter could be attached "backwards" and so it would be closer to the lend some how, or the edges would not be in the way of wide-angle light, wonder if this is true?

Last edited by gawan; 10-11-2007 at 02:43 AM. Reason: correcting a typo
10-10-2007, 11:52 AM   #4
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They have a wide angle holder that only ones 1 filter which is supposed to be better if you are worried about vignetting.. I've shot with my kit lens with one and didn't see any problems at 18mm... (but then I wasn't looking either!)

10-10-2007, 01:23 PM   #5
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I've used the P series with my 16-45 at 16 without problem. I don't have anything wider that isn't a fisheye, and I don't know of anybody making anything that would work on a fisheye. So until I buy something sider or somebody comes up with some bowl shaped filter and some weird mounting technique that's as far as I go.
10-10-2007, 02:22 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by gawan Quote
Thank you Paul for your comment, P-series sounds like a good choise. Vignetting was my main worry. Do you think P-adapter would work nice also with Sigmas 10-20mm wide zoom. Measurewise it should (I mean sigma has 77mm filter fit), but what about the angle?

Someone told me Cokin adapter could be attached "backwards" and so it would be closer to the lend some how, or the edges would not ibe n the way of wide-angle light, wonder if this is true?
The p-seris will not work with the Sigma 10-20. In fact, the z series will not work if you have a circular filter on the front of the lens and a filter in the holder. It actually is so wide that the filter holder is in view. I think that the lee system is the way to go with a lens that wide; although I have yet to try it. I purchased the Z for the same lens and am very dissapointed.

Hope this helps-

Chris
10-10-2007, 02:41 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by gawan Quote
I am planning to buy a cokin filter adapter kit, but I am not sure which kit would be the best. It seems that P-series is meant to cameras like my K10D. On the other hand Z Pro seem to be for middle format but would allow more wide angle lenses.

Which kit would you recommend for K10D and wide side lenses? Any comments on the usability of cokin system is welcomed. My thoughts are to use regular B+W for polarizers and cokin for everything else (read: ND grads)

thanks
gawan
I have the Cokin P series filter holder and it does not vignette even with the DA14. I also tried it on Scott Rylance's DA12-24 and if there was vignetting when set at 12mm we couldn't see it.
10-11-2007, 10:59 AM   #8
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Thank you for the additional comments, I became uncertain now P-series seems quite versatile and good choice if only I did not have this "problem lens", 10-20mm. Thanks for tip about Lee system - had not heard from it before! Lee seems to use 100mm filters as standard, so maybe they could be use also with Z-series (and vice versa), adding the availability options. Cokin Z-series holder should be possible to dismantle to hold only one filter or alternatively used in reverse manner to allow more angle. Lee has also similar features.

Amador, do you mean that Z-series could be used with wide sigma provide you di not use any other filters at the same time?

I have a lot to think about before purchasing

Gawan


Last edited by gawan; 10-11-2007 at 01:51 PM.
10-12-2007, 08:17 AM   #9
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if you get the P series, get the wide angle holder. I did a bunch of testing w/ my sigma 17-70 and posted results here. If you have a UV filter on, you'll see the edges of the regular P series holder...

I suspect I'll be holding the filter over the lens at times...
10-12-2007, 09:10 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lance B Quote
I have the Cokin P series filter holder and it does not vignette even with the DA14. I also tried it on Scott Rylance's DA12-24 and if there was vignetting when set at 12mm we couldn't see it.
Unfortunately, my results with the P holder and the DA 14 are different. This could be from using Singh-Ray filters, but with the polarizers all 4 corners are black. The GND's aren't too bad though. They won't vignette with a horizontal framing, so long as I don't rotate the holder more than a couple of degrees and are perfectly fine in a verticle set-up.
10-12-2007, 03:39 PM   #11
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The P filter indeed vignettes with my DA 14mm (which made me nuts because I never had that problem with the equivalent focal length FA 20mm on a film body). It really shows up when a polarizer or other screw-in filter is used in combo - yes, even the ultra-slim ones).

I haven't tried the wide angle holder - most pros I know (Mr. graduated ND Galen Rowell may have been the first ) trim the front slots off the regular P holder. I found I even needed to trim more inside the opening. Even then, if I turn the holder at an angle, two corners will darken.

I didn't go with the Z because they're just too hard to find filters for, and having Bob Singh make some up custom is pretty expensive. I've been able to all but eliminate the problem, though, and I take care of the occasional problem in PP.
10-12-2007, 09:25 PM   #12
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Is there a specific reason you want the Cokin Z kit? If you want a 100mm system Lee makes perfectly good resin filters of 100mm size that are plentiful. They are reasonably priced and may even be cheaper than the Z filters since Lee is a UK company and you are in Europe. Just make sure you get a Lee wide angle adapter ring if you are worried about vignetting.

Tiffen also makes some glass 100mm square filters and 100mm graduated ND filters. But they are much more expensive (scratch resistant) versus the resin filters (scratches easily).

You can also get 100mm square filters in other names like Singh Ray, Calumet, HiTech.

Keep in mind one other thing. You will also need to get a good tripod and head in order to use graduated ND filters properly.
10-13-2007, 03:53 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by tranq78 Quote
Is there a specific reason you want the Cokin Z kit? If you want a 100mm system Lee makes perfectly good resin filters of 100mm size that are plentiful. They are reasonably priced and may even be cheaper than the Z filters since Lee is a UK company and you are in Europe. Just make sure you get a Lee wide angle adapter ring if you are worried about vignetting.

Tiffen also makes some glass 100mm square filters and 100mm graduated ND filters. But they are much more expensive (scratch resistant) versus the resin filters (scratches easily).

You can also get 100mm square filters in other names like Singh Ray, Calumet, HiTech.

Keep in mind one other thing. You will also need to get a good tripod and head in order to use graduated ND filters properly.
Thanks for the tip, tranq78. No particular reason for Cokin Z, this was the only one I was aware of when starting this thread. I already looked up the Lee and it seems great.

This is kind of new to me, it started when I was desperate not to get the exposure the way I liked with brightish sky and middle-to-dark-tone ground. So I figured that I needed graduated ND filters that I could move vertically as needed.

I do have my old Manfrotto 055C with a Velbon PH-173 ball head, a combination which is a bit heavy to carry, but quite sturdy (is this a right word?).

Do you know any good EU e-shop selling Lee's? I could not find them from my usual finnish stores. I think the foundation kit with a wide angle adaptor, plus those filters of course, would be enough to me.

thanks

Last edited by gawan; 10-13-2007 at 03:57 PM. Reason: correcting the language
10-13-2007, 06:34 PM   #14
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gawan:

To use graduated filters follow the technique I have outlined in this thread.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/5568-graduated...-use-them.html


To answer your second question, I live in North America so I don't know of any European stores. Perhaps the U.K./European based forum members can help you if you post a separate request for help. (I bought most of my Lee & graduated filters off flea-Bay or B&H.)

Having said that, the U.S. dollar has collapsed against the Euro recently which would make it cheaper to buy from B&H or Adorama.

Last edited by tranq78; 10-13-2007 at 06:44 PM.
10-14-2007, 03:25 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by tranq78 Quote
gawan:

To use graduated filters follow the technique I have outlined in this thread.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/5568-graduated...-use-them.html

To answer your second question, I live in North America so I don't know of any European stores. Perhaps the U.K./European based forum members can help you if you post a separate request for help. (I bought most of my Lee & graduated filters off flea-Bay or B&H.)

Having said that, the U.S. dollar has collapsed against the Euro recently which would make it cheaper to buy from B&H or Adorama.
Thanks for the link, most educating!

And I already found an UK store I could use (expensive though). Yes I look every now and then at B&H, but often the currency rate advantage is lost with shipping costs and especially after paying local VAT in this end (22%). Most of my purchases that I don't do in Finland are made in german web stores, they can usually offer great prices. And I don't have to pay extra taxes inside EU.
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