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03-08-2011, 04:12 PM   #1
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Has your photography improved? How do you know or gauge yourself?

So I got to thinking about this after viewing old photos from when I first purchased my Pentax. To give some background, I bought my first DSLR back in December 2009, but prior to that I had always used compact point and shoots. Not getting the results I wanted, I knew I needed to upgrade to get better control and image quality. Since then, I've continually learned as much as I could about photography, essentially self-teaching myself with bits and pieces. Everything I've learned so far has been from the internet (including this forum ) and books I've picked up along the way. I've yet to take any formal classes or workshops and at the moment simply don't have the time.

Anyhow, as I was looking back at some old photos (and cringing ), I began thinking to myself "Has my photography improved? Or have I improved as a photographer?" Now don't get me wrong, I use the term "photographer" loosely. I'm far from being any pro and consider myself a casual shooter, still learning in my available time. So I wanted to see how the rest of you felt about it.

Do you think you've improved over the last year? Why or why not? And what are some of the things you use to determine this or gauge yourself?

Oh, btw, although this thread may seem more geared towards amateurs, Veteran photogs feel free to share your ideas and progress too. Thanks!

03-08-2011, 04:45 PM   #2
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Self-critique goes a long way, but we have to be brutally honest with ourselves when comparing work from year to year.

I occasionally review my 'best' images from each year and compare their technical and artistic qualities with my most recent work. Mostly I've found a noticeable change for the better. The basic questions of "what my intended message/emotion trying to be conveyed by the image?" and "how could I have best captured this subject?" seem never to fail me in critiquing my own images, and give me possibilites of how much better the image could have been if I'd made some adjustment or waited for a better moment to capture the scene.
03-08-2011, 05:12 PM   #3
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I kept my photography to myself for nearly 15 years and only in the past couple of months, due to encouragement from others, have finally posted stuff on Flickr and created a web site. Until that time, I felt that I had been steadily improving, and family and friends were saying the same. But let's face it: they're a pretty subjective audience, i.e. if someone like that doesn't like your stuff, they're not likely to say or do anything to indicate it because they'll have to live with your hurt feelings. But since I've "gone public", also joining an arts club, I've received some pretty nice feedback that confirmed what I was perceiving in private.

The point: you need to get your work out there somehow, the newer and some of the older - preferably in front of knowledgeable people that you can speak with face to face (I don't like posting for critiques by people I don't know on forums) - and then you'll really know if you've improved.
03-08-2011, 10:34 PM   #4
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Me? I suck, and have been going steadily downhill since 1960.
That's not the reason photography is no longer my job, though.
I suck because I'm static. If I traveled more, I'd not suck so much.
[/me bitches and whines about my damn dull boring surroundings]
Pretty soon I'll go on a long trip. Then I won't suck so much. Maybe.

How to tell? If you shoot for yourself, make your own self-judgments.
If you shoot for others, listen to their judgments, then ignore them.
If you shoot for pay, do whatever the customer wants. ANYTHING!
If you shoot because of mental problems, then it doesn't matter.
If you shoot for sex, well, ask yourself, does it work? If so, smile.

If you and/or an audience are happy, GREAT! If not, do something else.

03-08-2011, 11:03 PM   #5
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Yeah, I'd say I have. I am studying seriously and I do think all the tutorials, the lessons, and the books has had a really positive effect on my work. The lighting lessons in particular.

I've still got a ways to go yet before I'd consider myself anything like a pro but I am getting a lot more confident in how to use my camera, how to find the light and the right settings, exposure, shutter speed etc than I was before. For someone who has only gotten to use a DSLR/SLR fairly recently I think I am doing fairly well.

Making the step up to an SLR/DSLR from using an upscale point and shoot, having some decent lenses and all that has given me a real boost in terms of having the ability to try some new things. My Fuji was a pretty good camera but it did really limit me sometimes.

My only real wish is that I could find more time to shoot something besides what's in my own backyard. I always make myself find things. Even if I have to photograph every day ordinary things I do some shooting several times a week just to do it, to practice. I don't let more than a couple of days go buy where I don't pick up my camera and do something, but I do get bored I will admit trying to photograph the scenery here.

I really miss CA and living in a big city sometimes. It was such a scenic state that it really inspired me to go out there and photograph a lot. Here opportunities to do street photography are a lot harder to find and the light rather sucks most of the time besides. As much as I like the birds and other wildlife there's only so many times I can photograph the same animals, the same places and still get something satisfying out of it.

This trip I am making back to CA this month has me really looking forward to it. Photographically this will be the most fun I'll have all year. I do mean to make the most of it too. I'm purposefully choosing to go to some places I've never gotten to go to before there just to give myself some new inspiration. I definitely expect to come back with a few DVD's worth of new pictures, hopefully good ones, far better ones than I got to take while I was living there.

I don't believe in letting myself get lazy even when I can't do any traveling though. Not having the best scenery to photograph on a daily basis doesn't mean there isn't any opportunity. Opportunity can be made, should be regardless of where I live or what time I have. If I can't find it then I do think I really need to try to make it. The only person who is responsive for the quality and content of my work is me.

If I truly get stagnant for a period of time then I usually feel it's probably because I am not making any real effort. My local scenery may not always be to my taste or the lighting ideal, but there IS a whole world of things out there just waiting to be photographed, many things that are just out there in my back yard waiting and sometimes getting a chance to work and improve it's really just a question of telling myself to get off my arse and go and LOOK!
03-09-2011, 12:26 AM   #6
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It's terribly hard to be honest about one's own work, especially the artistic elements - the technical ones are far easier to deal with. I used to go to a camera club, and got better results in the competitions. The judge doesn't have my (potential) emotional with the pictures, it's the same group more or less of judges, so it is a reasonable way to judge progress.

Most Flickr groups are hopeless for meaningful feedback. I've just left one that had 'great shot' as part of it's standard comment, and the day I saw that applied to a waterfall shot with a blown sky, purple finging and a bannister cutting across the bottom was the day I left.

And my feeling is that here people are mostly looking at image quality, not the artistic aspects. A sort of 'boys toys' approach with none of that dodgy touchy-feely artistic stuff.
03-09-2011, 05:31 AM   #7
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oh yes. skills get improvement slowly, monthly maybe. There are several areas of photography. In some areas, I can do almost anything, but also some that I have just barely touched. I try to set myself a goal for each year. Also try to limit one lens at a time and challenging creativity - less-is-more approach, I have several MF primes. Tour walking as much as I can; these outdoor short trips seem to trigger the creativity part.

The selection part is harder, like creating a photo book/large print album for show case after 5-6 months.

It's also good to know that I m not getting worse over time... Some photos from film/slides still good after 20+ years.

Photography costs money and time, lots of time, but I have my moments frozen ;-)

03-09-2011, 09:39 AM   #8
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My photography has evolved over time, but I can't say whether it's actually "improved" or not. I think it's improved, but my opinion is pretty subjective, ya know? I use several "yardsticks" to gauge my progress. First, I try to be my own worst critic. Then I take pics which surive the first cut, work on them in post-processing, and use them as the desktop on my computer (at work and at home) for as long as I can stand them. If I grow tired of looking at a picture on a daily basis, then it's probably not up to snuff. I also make note of the comments I receive from co-workers. If my desktop pic grabs their attention and moves them to comment, then I view that as a "plus". If a pic makes it through the first rounds of elimination, then I enter it in my camera club's bi-monthly competition. I used to have one further step in which I would submit a photo for publication, but I lost that outlet because I went to work for them. LOL Ultimately, I think the decision as to whether I'm progressing or not is left up to me. The rest of this stuff is just a way to measure myself, but not the definitive answer.
03-09-2011, 11:29 AM   #9
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Thanks for the experiences thus far everyone. Like others have mentioned, I feel I am my own worst critic. I do bounce photos off the opinion of family and friends, but I realize it's quite subjective due to our existing relationship. My wife is pretty honest though about whether or not she hates an image She will tell me straight up "I don't like it."

QuoteOriginally posted by cats_five:
And my feeling is that here people are mostly looking at image quality, not the artistic aspects. A sort of 'boys toys' approach with none of that dodgy touchy-feely artistic stuff.
Like family and friends, I find the forums to be equally subjective. That's to be expected though, considering taste and style vary wildly. Some people are heavily into landscapes while others into portraiture, wildlife, and so on. Thus, with specific likes and dislikes, people approach and critique differently on the boards. I tend to agree with what Cat said above how we can get feedback here based on an image's technical merits or image quality, but style and artistry remains very subjective.

When I first started shooting, I was shooting everything. Household items, toys, family, friends, pets, backyard plants, etc. Lol...I often get annoyed at seeing everyone's pet Cat photos here, but I remember back to when I first started and had nothing but my dogs as subjects. So I understand everyone needs practice in whatever form they can get. Often when I saw an image I liked online, I would look at the exif and try to mimic the original. Sorta like a "monkey see monkey do" approach. That was essentially my 1st year of shooting. If anything, that experience has helped me to know my camera better and the settings I should use for a given situation. Composition and artistry, still remain facets that I continue to explore and learn. Especially with personal style, which is something I really desire to develop this year.

QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico:
If you and/or an audience are happy, GREAT! If not, do something else.
Ah, photography in general makes me very happy. And I agree, if not, why do it? Am I content with my images? Not necessarily, but I consider that an ingredient to strive for continual improvement. Of which, this year I'm measuring my improvement by participating more in monthly photo contests through the forum and other avenues. I think these contests, although not definitive, do provide a method to gauge oneself.
03-09-2011, 12:36 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by einstrigger Quote
Often when I saw an image I liked online, I would look at the exif and try to mimic the original. Sorta like a "monkey see monkey do" approach.
I think this is a good way to learn. It not only makes a person figure out exactly what goes into an image, but it also provides a measuring device in the form of the picture that's being copied.
03-09-2011, 12:47 PM   #11
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Improving steadily.


I grasped the technical issues with photography very quickly as I have a mind for engineering, the artistic side is what I am "teaching" myself now.


I look at it as your trying to capture atmosphere and feeling. I think of it like viewing things as a child, what makes you have a sense of wonder or awe and I am always going for that.

Books on composition have helped me a lot and I recommend people read them and work on that if your like me and "get" the aperature/shutter etc but need help with the "art" end of photography.
03-09-2011, 10:52 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
Improving steadily.


I grasped the technical issues with photography very quickly as I have a mind for engineering, the artistic side is what I am "teaching" myself now.


I look at it as your trying to capture atmosphere and feeling. I think of it like viewing things as a child, what makes you have a sense of wonder or awe and I am always going for that.

Books on composition have helped me a lot and I recommend people read them and work on that if your like me and "get" the aperature/shutter etc but need help with the "art" end of photography.
I agree with this fully. It's also what I tell people whenever I encounter naysayers on editing/postprocessing: photography is all about emotions.

Whether it's explicit (a candid with a person whose face portrays some strong emotion) or implicit (the wonder someone feels when you're looking at a glorious sunrise/set, even if the viewer is the photographer/not in the photo itself), it's in some way or another lost or weakened by the technology and physics end of the spectrum. It's therefore brought back, or emphasized, in post - whether or not it 100% matches the original scene is, to me, irrelevant, as long as it 100% matches the emotion felt when I saw the scene, and passes that emotion on to subsequent viewers.
03-10-2011, 07:42 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Me? I suck, and have been going steadily downhill since 1960.
That's not the reason photography is no longer my job, though.
I suck because I'm static. If I traveled more, I'd not suck so much.
[/me bitches and whines about my damn dull boring surroundings]
Pretty soon I'll go on a long trip. Then I won't suck so much. Maybe.

How to tell? If you shoot for yourself, make your own self-judgments.
If you shoot for others, listen to their judgments, then ignore them.
If you shoot for pay, do whatever the customer wants. ANYTHING!
If you shoot because of mental problems, then it doesn't matter.
If you shoot for sex, well, ask yourself, does it work? If so, smile.

If you and/or an audience are happy, GREAT! If not, do something else.
I quite agree with this assessment... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, applies to everything...

On a more personal level, I believe I can take a "better" photograph today simply because I am using better/upgraded photographic equipment. Do I think I am a better photographer then before, short answer is NO.

IMHO, photography, like all other art forms, is an inherent gift; I firmly believe you can either take that photo just as the right instant or you can't. I put myself in the "I honestly can't" category. I walk around with photographers that do this for a living, and they're always telling me when to take this or take that, and when I give it a second look, they're always right.

I think what I can improve on, coming up with my own style. If you've studied artists/painters they all eventually develop their own distinct style, which is recognizable even in a crowd. I need to kinda decide my strong points and interest, then go in that direction.

Hope this makes sense... Rick
03-10-2011, 10:33 AM   #14
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I see two ways to answer this. For myself the question is whether or not I am better at capturing/processing the image I imagined when I approached the shot. That question can be answered personally.

Whether I am objectively better needs outside opinions. Yes, yes, "better" is a subjective term, but there are measurements in any art. It's hard taking critiques. What we all really want is for the person looking at our photos to say, "Wow!. That's incredible." But the simple truth is that few if any photos are perfect. There's always room for improvement.

The problem is finding useful critiques. I've found Flickr worthless. A photo club can be helpful if people there know how to give meaningful critiques. But that's an art in and of itself. I know that my fiction writing improved quickly when I got in a good critique group but it took me three tries before I found one that was both encouraging and critical enough.

I have a couple of friends who I now trust to critique my photos. That took time, too. I need to feel good coming out of the session but also honestly want to know how I could have improved the images I share. I've also hired a pro to look at my photos. I've done that three times, now at six month intervals. Another place to get useful critiques is at workshops, though that can quickly get too expensive. Actually, doing all three is a good idea if you really want to improve.

As to improving, just shooting a lot isn't guaranteed to make you better. Getting honest and knowledgeable feedback really speeds the process. Learning to critique yourself, with outside checks is a step. Shooting consciously is a step. That means setting goals, both general and specific. What do I need to work on in general? What do I want from this specific situation? Without that kind of checking and feedback, improvement usually comes slowly and it's easy to say, "well, that's what I like," when it really is just the best you know how to do.
03-10-2011, 11:03 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by mysticcowboy Quote
<snip>
The problem is finding useful critiques. I've found Flickr worthless. A photo club can be helpful if people there know how to give meaningful critiques.
<snip>
There is at least one (!) Flickr group where you may well get a meaningful critique:
Flickr: Photography Critique

Doing critiques is also very helpful and the same Flickr group is a good place to start feeling your way.

And camera clubs are *if* you can enter competitions with outside judges.

PS You wrote a lot of good sense, especially
QuoteQuote:
it's easy to say, "well, that's what I like," when it really is just the best you know how to do.
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