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03-27-2011, 01:37 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by cats_five Quote
What on earth makes you think Pentax / Olympus / Sony / Brand X users are any better?
Usually (i say usually) people who have looked into brands other than Canon and Nikon have actually researched into the camera they should buy - rather than rocking up to any store that stocks only Canons/Nikons and asking the sales clerk what camera they should get. This also implies that they're actually into learning their photography - beginning with basics liks how to hold their damn camera - because they're obviously literate enough to read and learn for themselves.

03-27-2011, 01:47 PM   #17
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I like the cliche:

QuoteQuote:
Better the software you know how to use than the one you don't
I think the same thing applies to cameras. About a year ago, i held a fieldtrip on using hdr. The idea is we would start out in a park building, make sure everyone knew how to do the simple bracketing and then go out in the field. Sigh - even some experienced Nikon users had some trouble finding the right menus and options. The result was: it turned into a camera exploration session vice a field trip. Thats ok but i started thinking then that there was something to the Pentax ergonomics advantage.

Feeling much more humbled today, the third day of owning this marvelous K5. But i've gone from feeling like i could do anything with the K20, then struggling with some new ways to use the K5 controls.

Some of this camera difficulty traces to the camera controls and design, but a lot more of it traces to the photographer not taking the time to really learn the camera.

I had an internal chuckle the other day. First time i saw my 86 year old uncle in a long time. I showed him 4 of my landscape prints that i had printed out on 16" by 24" canvas, and stretched them myself on an internal framework. He complimented me and then said you have to see a photo i took. Showed me several snow pictures from Minnesota and his prize shot was a redish fall foliage picture that was stretched out on a narrow strip on the horizon of a lake. Course it was done on a small print and without a tripod since the details looked pretty smeared. Course i complimented him. He finally said: you must have a really good camera? and Who does your enlarging for you? You do???

After one has been in the enthusiast world for a few years, we tend to take things like the various processing software, SLRs, digital technology and our own composition skills for granted. We don't realize that the average person is still taking pictures with their phone or a PS if they are lucky, and printing via jpeg direct to Costco, Fred Meyer, Kit camera shop, etc. Processing software - what's that? Tripod - do people still use them?

Now if i could find my instructions, i could figure out where the K5 on-button is
03-27-2011, 03:30 PM   #18
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cats_five has the answer

it is just that with canikon there are many more dumb examples so it's obvious.
03-27-2011, 03:36 PM   #19
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My main meaning in posting this thread was they spent so much
$$$$ on their stuff, why not learn at least some basics to
maximize the investment. If they don't want to learn all the bells,
buttons, whizzers, and go-fasters, Ok, but learn a few basics and
put the camera in green mode, but stop treating a fine piece of
equipment like a point & shoot.

On the other hand, I do find them amusing at times

03-27-2011, 04:16 PM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
But we also have a 'Beginners Forum" and get plenty of those "I haven't figured this out" questions.
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

True..... this.

I think that when you spend so much time trying to figure out what the other guy is doing wrong, you're not spending enough time working on your own skills.
03-27-2011, 04:38 PM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dma110 Quote
My main meaning in posting this thread was they spent so much
$$$$ on their stuff, why not learn at least some basics to
maximize the investment. If they don't want to learn all the bells,
buttons, whizzers, and go-fasters, Ok, but learn a few basics and
put the camera in green mode, but stop treating a fine piece of
equipment like a point & shoot.

On the other hand, I do find them amusing at times
I think I posted this at one point in the other camera section, but my GF's father has a D300s with $2000+ worth of lenses and asked me what the "f" was on his display ...
03-27-2011, 04:47 PM   #22
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Great point. I plead mea culpa. I am most guilty of this and
sentence myself to bettering my own skills. Rep point to you
03-27-2011, 05:13 PM   #23
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I'm sure on car forums there are enthusiasts compaining how all these Toyota owners don't even know a manifold from an injector. Yup, that's me, I just want to get from point A to point B.

A lot of people just want cameras to take snapshots. Rich people buy SLRs adn fancy lenses just to take snapshots. There's no crime in this, we are interested in what we are interested in, no one can be an expert on everything.

03-27-2011, 05:43 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dma110 Quote
Ed n Georgia
Great point. I plead mea culpa. I am most guilty of this and
sentence myself to bettering my own skills. Rep point to you
I'm guilty of this as well. Thanks for the rep point.
03-27-2011, 05:50 PM   #25
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Recently purchased Nikon and sure do have troubles with the settings. Believe it or not they have a different system to Pentax, aaauuugghhh! bastards! It's going to take a while to adjust, so if you saee me struggling with my camera and looking confused, please don't point and laugh.
03-27-2011, 05:56 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by gtxtom Quote
I think I posted this at one point in the other camera section, but my GF's father has a D300s with $2000+ worth of lenses and asked me what the "f" was on his display ...
Did you ask back, wtf do you think it means?

Couldn't resist
03-27-2011, 05:59 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by cats_five Quote
What on earth makes you think Pentax / Olympus / Sony / Brand X users are any better?
Yes, it could happen to owners of the other brands Pentax/Olympus/Sony as well, but less common compare to the major brands since one has to go look for and ask for them because almost 100% to be Canikon if the question is directed to the sales person at the store.

On the other hand, one can argue that the two major brands are smart marketers taking advantage of would-be buyers who blindly trust the sales or the brand.
03-27-2011, 09:36 PM   #28
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never laughed at any of them. Just shook my head in wonderment
And I have to admit, I too spend time fiddling with the K-5, but if
I'm where I need to shoot, I'll stick the camera in program and
let the camera take over. It's probably smarter than me anyhow
But I'm working on that
Im kinda wishing I had not started this thread, was idle musings
waiting for the faire to open.
03-28-2011, 12:19 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
Yes, it could happen to owners of the other brands Pentax/Olympus/Sony as well, but less common compare to the major brands since one has to go look for and ask for them because almost 100% to be Canikon if the question is directed to the sales person at the store.
Your source for saying it's less common with Pentax users? Remember, observation isn't data, it's annecdote and doesn't become data until lots of it is properly collected and correlated.

We seem to have plenty of new users coming from P&S cameras asking very basic questions. I suspect the pool of people who started with an ME Super (or similar) will be decreasing (we are getting older after all!) and even back then quite a few people never really understood how to get a good picture from a camera.
03-28-2011, 08:09 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by cats_five Quote
Your source for saying it's less common with Pentax users? Remember, observation isn't data, it's annecdote and doesn't become data until lots of it is properly collected and correlated.
Absolutely. There's also a very healthy dose of observational bias going on- everyone wants their fellow Pentax "club" members to appear awesomely informed and skilled camera operators. It makes them feel good about themselves for being in this club, so you clearly recall the incompetent canon/nikon wielders and conveniently forget about the pentax guy trying to mount his lens on backwards (and no, not talking about using it for macro purposes). It also helps that there are way more canon/nikon users than pentax ones roaming the streets, so in terms of sheer numbers you've got a good chance of counting more backwards lens hoods on the 'enemy' brands than the home team.
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