Why can't Canikon users learn how to use their damn cameras?

**Dma110** · 03-26-2011, 07:19 PM

Went to the Az Renaissance festival today. Got there early to
get a close parking spot, so I had plenty of time to people watch.
I decided to see what cameras they were using. Made the
following observations
A lot of the canikons had really big lenses. Either the camera
store conned them in getting the biggest, fastest, most
expensive lens in the store, or it's some kind of phallic symbol
to make for a real or imagined shortcoming.
Next. Only about of the people were using lens hoods. 3-4
were using hoods, but had them reversed. I heard there were
Magic hoods coming out that worked that way, but didn't know
they were on the market yet.
A lot of these photogs spent as much time staring at the back
of their cameras trying to figure which button to push or which
dial to turn as they did shooting.
While some of them held their cameras correctly, a lot used the
following method. Right hand holding the right side of the body,
index finger on the shutter button, left hand holding the left side
of the body, both wrists straining to hold that honking big glass
almost level. One guy, however, held his 1 to 1 1/2 feet from his
face and used the liveview screen to compose. I'll bet his pics
are tack sharp.
I saw 1 olympus, 2 Sonys, & 3 pentax- 1 p&s, 1 K-x (mine) and
1 K-5 (mine) all the rest were canikons.
That's today's report. Tomorrow, off to the chinese dragon boat
races. Maybe I'll see more canikon "pros" in action

**Digitalis** · 03-26-2011, 07:40 PM

That must have been entertaining, I have quite a few students that have bad habits when it comes to long lens technique. Many of them think the IS built into their expensive lenses is going to correct for such shortcomings which is far from the truth. I had a student who uses the canon 100mm f/2.8L IS claim that IS makes tripods redundant don't worry, I made him eat his words. In the studio I set up a macro subject that requires large DOF and set it up under studio hot lights with daylight filters on - which reduced the exposure to 2s @ f/16 and I asked him to photograph it hand-held without camera shake...which he agreed to do. I'll give him brownie points for trying but viewing his files at 100% showed his technique was seriously lacking. So I told him to grab a tripod and use it which he did, and with the addition of mirror lock up the resulting images were perfect.

young people these days - they expect technology to solve everything.

aleonx3 · 03-26-2011, 10:11 PM

Most of them want to believe that the DSLR cameras are designed to give the best result by simply following a simple operation such as pushing a button. I have once been asked by a 5D owner on how to turn off the 2-sec self timer since he noticed that the camera seem to have a delay response after the shutter is tripped (didn't know how the camera setting was changed). Most of them operate the DSLR as if it is a P&S. In fact most people who own both use the DSLR sparingly but a very often with the P&S and they happen a lot in the Canikon camp.

einstrigger · 03-26-2011, 10:23 PM

Considering you can pick up a Canikon DSLR at any Walmart, Target, Bestbuy, or other big box store, you're definitely going to see them more in public. Of course, like you've seen, that doesn't necessarily mean people know how to use them. At work, my co-worker (Canon 50D owner) always remarks at how he loves my photos and wishes he could take similar shots. When I ask what mode he uses, he says he always has it on the "green square" which is Canon's auto mode.

He recently asked for a lens recommendation to shoot his kid's soccer games and balked at the prices since many of the telezooms cost more than his camera. But, he reconciled and said he could pickup something at Best Buy because he had a store card with them and could take advantage of their financing.

Anyhow, I'm guessing my co-worker is an example of many Canikon users out there who upgraded to DSLRs and use them as glorified point & shoot cameras, but expect to get great photos without knowing more than the auto mode.

Peter Zack · 03-26-2011, 10:52 PM

Humm, I know how to shoot my Nikon's but then I did spend 30 years learning the right way with Pentax.

As for the hood thing. I shoot with a pro who never uses hoods and swears that the longer the lens, the more the hood catches wind which will cause vibration. He regularly shoots for Nat Geo and a dozen other top flight magazines. I don't necessarily subscribe to his thinking but you can't question the results. Of course he's a tripod shooter and does know the settings

Vylen · 03-26-2011, 10:55 PM

That sounds a bit unusual.

Regardless of the hood being there or not, the lens is still going to catch wind and consequently vibrate - simply cause it exists.

But, while I don't believe him to be right, I propose the scientific way of determining the truth to this by using a wind tunnel and sensors to detect movement in all 3 axis!

Chaos_Realm · 03-26-2011, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by Vylen

That sounds a bit unusual.

Regardless of the hood being there or not, the lens is still going to catch wind and consequently vibrate - simply cause it exists.

But, while I don't believe him to be right, I propose the scientific way of determining the truth to this by using a wind tunnel and sensors to detect movement in all 3 axis!

I believe he is correct in his thinking. Example. get a ruler, hold it at one end and place a small object (lets say an eraser) near to your hand holding the ruler. notice it makes very little difference. now move this object to the other end of the ruler whilst still holding in the same spot. It wont be as easy to hold in place. This is a "moment force" or torque.... and the longer the lens and/or larger the hood the larger effect the wind has on it.

-Scott

bimjo · 03-27-2011, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by Chaos_Realm

I believe he is correct in his thinking. Example. get a ruler, hold it at one end and place a small object (lets say an eraser) near to your hand holding the ruler. notice it makes very little difference. now move this object to the other end of the ruler whilst still holding in the same spot. It wont be as easy to hold in place. This is a "moment force" or torque.... and the longer the lens and/or larger the hood the larger effect the wind has on it.

-Scott

I have to think that the camera body more than offsets the added torque of a lens hood on a long lens when tripod mounted, especially with a grip attached to the body. But I could be wrong. Happened yesterday too.

pop4 · 03-27-2011, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by Dma110

A lot of the canikons had really big lenses. Either the camera store conned them in getting the biggest, fastest, most
expensive lens in the store....

I saw 1 olympus, 2 Sonys, & 3 pentax- 1 p&s, 1 K-x (mine) and
1 K-5 (mine) all the rest were canikons.

Not trying to defend Canikon, but to me, the observations of the opening poster is just an indication of how successful Canikon are in their marketing, and also the control of the market they have as the number 1 and 2 players in the dSLR camera field; when you have that much market share, with so many people using their cameras, that very visible presence means that those who are thinking about getting a dSLR will most likely have been only exposed to the two brands, which in turn would influence their buying decision.

Personally, I think the title of the thread would be more suited to be "Why can't inexperienced dSLR users learn how to use their damn cameras?". To me, a newbie's a newbie, regardless of what the branding on their camera says; and yes, that even includes Pentax users.

Originally posted by Dma110

That's today's report. Tomorrow, off to the chinese dragon boat races. Maybe I'll see more canikon "pros" in action

Being the user of a certain brand of camera does not a pro make.

Chaos_Realm · 03-27-2011, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by bimjo

I have to think that the camera body more than offsets the added torque of a lens hood on a long lens when tripod mounted, especially with a grip attached to the body. But I could be wrong. Happened yesterday too.

well they do have Mirror lock up shooting which I would think would have less effect than a lens hood in strong wind. But unfortunately i don't have a wind tunnel to test this

I am curious to see what kind of Theoretical and real life effect it would have

**Dma110** · 03-27-2011, 06:32 AM

I'm not saying all canikon users don't know their equipment.
A lot of them do & are great. But yes, the greater number of
owners means the greater number of people who think their
dslr is a magic box that makes them great photographers.
I used to try to help them, and give them pointers, but since I
wasn't shooting "GOD'S" camera like them, was ignored. Oh well,
like the old saying goes " Never under estimate the power of
human stupidity ". Bye for now. Off to the dragon boats

yeatzee · 03-27-2011, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

young people these days - they expect technology to solve everything.

Hey now

I'd rather use a lens built 20 years ago than a brand spanking new canikon IS/VRII lens any day of the week

jaieger · 03-27-2011, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

young people these days - they expect technology to solve everything.

...you mean my m42 to k adapter won't give my takumars SDM af?

Peter Zack · 03-27-2011, 12:15 PM

It's true, with such a large market share and the natural move from a P&S to a DSLR, there will be many who don't understand their cameras. They will tend to use their DSLR like the P&S they had before.

But we also have a 'Beginners Forum" and get plenty of those "I haven't figured this out" questions.

cats_five · 03-27-2011, 12:19 PM

What on earth makes you think Pentax / Olympus / Sony / Brand X users are any better?

03-26-2011, 07:19 PM	#1
Dma110 Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Gilbert Arizona Posts: 559	Why can't Canikon users learn how to use their damn cameras? Went to the Az Renaissance festival today. Got there early to get a close parking spot, so I had plenty of time to people watch. I decided to see what cameras they were using. Made the following observations A lot of the canikons had really big lenses. Either the camera store conned them in getting the biggest, fastest, most expensive lens in the store, or it's some kind of phallic symbol to make for a real or imagined shortcoming. Next. Only about of the people were using lens hoods. 3-4 were using hoods, but had them reversed. I heard there were Magic hoods coming out that worked that way, but didn't know they were on the market yet. A lot of these photogs spent as much time staring at the back of their cameras trying to figure which button to push or which dial to turn as they did shooting. While some of them held their cameras correctly, a lot used the following method. Right hand holding the right side of the body, index finger on the shutter button, left hand holding the left side of the body, both wrists straining to hold that honking big glass almost level. One guy, however, held his 1 to 1 1/2 feet from his face and used the liveview screen to compose. I'll bet his pics are tack sharp. I saw 1 olympus, 2 Sonys, & 3 pentax- 1 p&s, 1 K-x (mine) and 1 K-5 (mine) all the rest were canikons. That's today's report. Tomorrow, off to the chinese dragon boat races. Maybe I'll see more canikon "pros" in action

03-27-2011, 12:15 PM	#14
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	It's true, with such a large market share and the natural move from a P&S to a DSLR, there will be many who don't understand their cameras. They will tend to use their DSLR like the P&S they had before. But we also have a 'Beginners Forum" and get plenty of those "I haven't figured this out" questions. Last edited by Peter Zack; 03-27-2011 at 12:23 PM.

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03-26-2011, 07:40 PM	#2
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	That must have been entertaining, I have quite a few students that have bad habits when it comes to long lens technique. Many of them think the IS built into their expensive lenses is going to correct for such shortcomings which is far from the truth. I had a student who uses the canon 100mm f/2.8L IS claim that IS makes tripods redundant don't worry, I made him eat his words. In the studio I set up a macro subject that requires large DOF and set it up under studio hot lights with daylight filters on - which reduced the exposure to 2s @ f/16 and I asked him to photograph it hand-held without camera shake...which he agreed to do. I'll give him brownie points for trying but viewing his files at 100% showed his technique was seriously lacking. So I told him to grab a tripod and use it which he did, and with the addition of mirror lock up the resulting images were perfect. young people these days - they expect technology to solve everything.

03-26-2011, 10:11 PM	#3
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Most of them want to believe that the DSLR cameras are designed to give the best result by simply following a simple operation such as pushing a button. I have once been asked by a 5D owner on how to turn off the 2-sec self timer since he noticed that the camera seem to have a delay response after the shutter is tripped (didn't know how the camera setting was changed). Most of them operate the DSLR as if it is a P&S. In fact most people who own both use the DSLR sparingly but a very often with the P&S and they happen a lot in the Canikon camp.

03-26-2011, 10:23 PM	#4
einstrigger Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 728	Considering you can pick up a Canikon DSLR at any Walmart, Target, Bestbuy, or other big box store, you're definitely going to see them more in public. Of course, like you've seen, that doesn't necessarily mean people know how to use them. At work, my co-worker (Canon 50D owner) always remarks at how he loves my photos and wishes he could take similar shots. When I ask what mode he uses, he says he always has it on the "green square" which is Canon's auto mode. He recently asked for a lens recommendation to shoot his kid's soccer games and balked at the prices since many of the telezooms cost more than his camera. But, he reconciled and said he could pickup something at Best Buy because he had a store card with them and could take advantage of their financing. Anyhow, I'm guessing my co-worker is an example of many Canikon users out there who upgraded to DSLRs and use them as glorified point & shoot cameras, but expect to get great photos without knowing more than the auto mode.

03-26-2011, 10:52 PM	#5
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	Humm, I know how to shoot my Nikon's but then I did spend 30 years learning the right way with Pentax. As for the hood thing. I shoot with a pro who never uses hoods and swears that the longer the lens, the more the hood catches wind which will cause vibration. He regularly shoots for Nat Geo and a dozen other top flight magazines. I don't necessarily subscribe to his thinking but you can't question the results. Of course he's a tripod shooter and does know the settings

03-26-2011, 10:55 PM	#6
Vylen Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,262	That sounds a bit unusual. Regardless of the hood being there or not, the lens is still going to catch wind and consequently vibrate - simply cause it exists. But, while I don't believe him to be right, I propose the scientific way of determining the truth to this by using a wind tunnel and sensors to detect movement in all 3 axis!

03-26-2011, 11:17 PM	#7
Chaos_Realm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,251	Originally posted by Vylen That sounds a bit unusual. Regardless of the hood being there or not, the lens is still going to catch wind and consequently vibrate - simply cause it exists. But, while I don't believe him to be right, I propose the scientific way of determining the truth to this by using a wind tunnel and sensors to detect movement in all 3 axis! I believe he is correct in his thinking. Example. get a ruler, hold it at one end and place a small object (lets say an eraser) near to your hand holding the ruler. notice it makes very little difference. now move this object to the other end of the ruler whilst still holding in the same spot. It wont be as easy to hold in place. This is a "moment force" or torque.... and the longer the lens and/or larger the hood the larger effect the wind has on it. -Scott

03-27-2011, 05:31 AM	#8
bimjo Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Pasco, WA Posts: 967	Originally posted by Chaos_Realm I believe he is correct in his thinking. Example. get a ruler, hold it at one end and place a small object (lets say an eraser) near to your hand holding the ruler. notice it makes very little difference. now move this object to the other end of the ruler whilst still holding in the same spot. It wont be as easy to hold in place. This is a "moment force" or torque.... and the longer the lens and/or larger the hood the larger effect the wind has on it. -Scott I have to think that the camera body more than offsets the added torque of a lens hood on a long lens when tripod mounted, especially with a grip attached to the body. But I could be wrong. Happened yesterday too.

03-27-2011, 05:59 AM	#9
pop4 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: YMML Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,879	Originally posted by Dma110 A lot of the canikons had really big lenses. Either the camera store conned them in getting the biggest, fastest, most expensive lens in the store.... I saw 1 olympus, 2 Sonys, & 3 pentax- 1 p&s, 1 K-x (mine) and 1 K-5 (mine) all the rest were canikons. Not trying to defend Canikon, but to me, the observations of the opening poster is just an indication of how successful Canikon are in their marketing, and also the control of the market they have as the number 1 and 2 players in the dSLR camera field; when you have that much market share, with so many people using their cameras, that very visible presence means that those who are thinking about getting a dSLR will most likely have been only exposed to the two brands, which in turn would influence their buying decision. Personally, I think the title of the thread would be more suited to be "Why can't inexperienced dSLR users learn how to use their damn cameras?". To me, a newbie's a newbie, regardless of what the branding on their camera says; and yes, that even includes Pentax users. Originally posted by Dma110 That's today's report. Tomorrow, off to the chinese dragon boat races. Maybe I'll see more canikon "pros" in action Being the user of a certain brand of camera does not a pro make.

03-27-2011, 06:28 AM	#10
Chaos_Realm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,251	Originally posted by bimjo I have to think that the camera body more than offsets the added torque of a lens hood on a long lens when tripod mounted, especially with a grip attached to the body. But I could be wrong. Happened yesterday too. well they do have Mirror lock up shooting which I would think would have less effect than a lens hood in strong wind. But unfortunately i don't have a wind tunnel to test this I am curious to see what kind of Theoretical and real life effect it would have

03-27-2011, 06:32 AM	#11
Dma110 Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Gilbert Arizona Posts: 559 Original Poster	I'm not saying all canikon users don't know their equipment. A lot of them do & are great. But yes, the greater number of owners means the greater number of people who think their dslr is a magic box that makes them great photographers. I used to try to help them, and give them pointers, but since I wasn't shooting "GOD'S" camera like them, was ignored. Oh well, like the old saying goes " Never under estimate the power of human stupidity ". Bye for now. Off to the dragon boats

03-27-2011, 09:30 AM	#12
yeatzee Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Temecula Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,675	Originally posted by Digitalis young people these days - they expect technology to solve everything. Hey now I'd rather use a lens built 20 years ago than a brand spanking new canikon IS/VRII lens any day of the week

03-27-2011, 10:19 AM	#13
jaieger Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 586	Originally posted by Digitalis young people these days - they expect technology to solve everything. ...you mean my m42 to k adapter won't give my takumars SDM af?

03-27-2011, 12:19 PM	#15
cats_five Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 835	What on earth makes you think Pentax / Olympus / Sony / Brand X users are any better?