[ejbpesca]

Out of the thousands of shots I've made only a few do I consider worthy of view. I do everything possible to get a good one but of course so many factors are involved so I adjust, shoot, adjust shoot then sort it all out later on computer. There is one thing no matter which camera I use, what the adjustments, that I find so present in digital photographs...noise. That is, that bespeckled look of colors not true giving a grainy look to the photo on an average laptop screen. I understand that printing will dissolve the noise but how can one view a photo on screen without it? Is there some extra monitor I can get that will do what printing does? Some super hi res monitor that will destroy it? Or..is there software I can use to muddle it over? I have four programs for processing digital photos and none do anything to take it out even though they claim to do so.

I am shooting at 12mp Fine then process but no matter what setting, there it is the noise on the screen. Is it because I do not shoot in RAW?

Perhaps it is the amateur quality of my cameras and their mass produced lenses. Do I need a $5,000 lens to get noise out of the image?

I am happy with some of my photos with their noise but all in all it is the noise factor that is my continual struggle for trying to get that clear shot. I want detail, sharp, sharper than the eye can see yet I've never gotten in decades of shooting to where I want to be. I guess my pockets are not deep enough to buy what I need to get those results because my cameras with lenses have never cost over $1200. Is that the problem or not shooting in RAW, or not having the right monitor, or not having the right software..or all of the above?

[v5planet]

There is no monitor that will dissolve electronic noise in your photographs. The best noise reducing software will help clean it up, but none of those programs are perfect, and they require experience and careful consideration to get the best results without sacrificing image detail.

You do not need thousands of dollars of equipment to reduce noise in your photos. You just need to take photos in an ISO range that keeps noise levels below a threshold of acceptability for you. For most situations with my K-7, I consider that to be ISO 800 or below. I will shoot higher when I need to, and will use noise reducing software judiciously to try to balance it out.

The one downside with reducing your ISO, of course, is that you suddenly will need more light. You can do this in one of two ways... you can make sure your scene is well lighted so you are not starved for adequate photons, or... you can buy lenses that have wide apertures and thus suck up more light. An old MF 50mm ƒ/1.4 or even ƒ/1.7 lens can be had for very little money, and they will often give you the flexibility to shoot at moderate ISO sensitivities in relatively low light... meaning less noise.

But I feel like with decades of experience you are probably aware of these things, so maybe the question I should ask is: what exactly do you consider to be a tolerable level of noise? There is no such thing as 'no noise', not even with the best cameras in the most flattering settings. If you're looking for it, you will find it....

[abmj]

Already touched on above but it sounds like you may be shooting at too high an ISO setting. We had someone post a couple of months ago about how bad his Pentax camera was because everything was "so grainy." Turned out he was shooting in auto with the ISO set as high as he could, apparently thinking higher is better.

Try shooting with ISO no higher than 200 (100 is better) outdoors in good light and see if you still get noisy pictures. Even with my old K2000 I got very nice pictures at 100. With the K7, I don't really notice noise until 400+ and then I can still clean it up with Topaz Denoise 5.

[Aristophanes]

Which camera are you using. If it is the K-x or K-r at 12MP then you should be almost noise free up to ISO 800. In fact, for DR both these sensors hit their sweet spot at ISO 400.

If noise is an issue, then lower your ISO. As you do some PP, then shooting RAW will allow for greater ability to apply noise reduction........to a limit. It's not the lens, and the K-x proves that you do not need an expensive camera to get high-ISO, low-noise images. Nor is this your monitor or computer. This all has to do with your in-camera ISO settings.

Pentax cameras have excellent ISO controls; best in the biz. Lets us know how this advice works for you. And post an image or 2 as example.

[Michael Barker]

That is, that bespeckled look of colors not true giving a grainy look to the photo on an average laptop screen

Are you viewing the entire the photo on the laptop screen, or are you zooming in on a small section of the photo, magnified to fill the entire screen? I'm trying to understand how much noise is in your photos. Perhaps you could attach a photo example. If you attach a full-resolution photo, and include EXIF, we should be able to see what the problem is.

[raz-0]

I'll say what the above are beating around the bush about while still trying ot be helpful.

Post an example. Preferably with EXIF information intact. Beyond that, you may want to state what software you have used to try to remove noise, and a before and after example so we know what you are complaining about.

[Lowell Goudge]

A posted image would be worthwhile along with exif data

Show us your problem

[ejbpesca]

I rarely shoot over ISO 80 outdoors and still get confetti in photos. These were done with a Pentax x90. Maybe that's it...a very inexpensive camera but I get the same results with a little higher grade DSLR by Canon. Macro shooting seems to be the least noisy.
My only denoiser is part of the program MediaImpression that comes with a Pentax. I see no difference pre and post analyze and apply of the tool.

I wonder if it is just lack of detail due to a cheap lens and a small sensor. My little super zoom x90 will get close up but the photo is not detailed..full of noise or just does not get a super clear image delivery to the sensor.

The clouds of the sky shot show just how much noise or lack of detail I get. Maybe if I learned to shoot in RAW it would help. I think my jpeg photos are processed by the camera then I process them some more and crop.

Thank you all for your advice and/or any comments.
jb

[ejbpesca]

This is the exif that was the the only different one out of 50 bird shots all loaded with noise. The photo that went with it was not noisy. All the rest had the ISO set at 80 where this one was 125. That allows for more sensitivity to light, I think, (emulates film speed), so is that the cause? Too low ISO? I had always gone by the thought that the lower the ISO the clearer the shot would be if you can get enough light for that speed.

I had the White Balance set to daylight. Maybe the camera was set to high contrast which I think can cause noise too. But at least out of 50 shots I got one good one, clear so how to get the rest to do that is the question. Do you think it could have been the simple difference between 80 and 125 ISO? Shouldn't 125 give more noise than 80 or was there a low light problem needing to up the ISO?

[Nuff]

I highly doubt you would get photos like that from a modern dslr, unless it's broken.

The problem here is the camera and lens. You can't expect a point and shoot with a small chip of a sensor to take decent photos. Your camera's sensor is 8.5 times smaller than m4/3 camera and 12.8 times smaller than a DSLR.

The simple and only solution is to get a better camera and lens.

[twitch]

This is not an issue of RAW vs JPEG, it's the result of having a tiny sensor and a not so good "do everything" lens that P&S cameras come with.

Any modern DSLR even with a kit lens will give you far better results.

[Sagitta]

Ehhhh... the X90 isn't exactly a 'cheap' P&S, and a modern P&S (even a cheap-o) will do better, or should.

Looking at that focal length though... are you using digital zoom? Digital zoom will grain you out faster than anything. Try taking images without it (stick to manual zoom only) and see if your results look better.

[Michael Barker]

Did you resize the photo before posting, or crop it, or did you use digital zoom? Cause that's not a 4000x3000 pixel picture.

The EXIF Shows you were at the maximum optical zoom of 119.6mm. Once you reach the max optical zoom and keep zooming in, many cameras switch to digital zoom which automatically crops the picture. The more digital zoom is used, the less pixels you get and the more you see the noise when you view the pictures, since less pixels means higher magnification (of picture and noise together) when viewing.

To turn digital zoom off, go into shooting/rec. mode, then press Menu. Scroll with the up/down arrow keys till you are highlighting "Digital Zoom". Use the right/left arrow key to change the setting so it is unchecked. Press the Menu button to exit.

[ejbpesca]

I never use digi zoom but I'm finding the powerful optic zoom of the x90 is certainly powerful but not quality...but I even got noise with hardly any zoom. Did a shoot yesterday with my DSLR and no noise at all. I'm thinking this sensor issue is it. I wish they would advertise cameras not by megapixel capacity but by sensor size. I've even read where large MP and small sensor actually reduces the clarity of photos therefore the huge MP is a selling gimmick.

I will try reducing down to 9 or less MP to see if that helps. That won't change the sensor size and I'm not sure if it clears anything up. The only reason I was impressed with the x90 12MP rating was for cropping, but I crop and there the noise is.

Just keep experimenting...and one day I may go ahead a jump for a large sensor, small camera. I was about to buy one when the x90 caught my attention, just because I wanted the name Pentax on my camera again. (former K1000 hobby photog person)

[ejbpesca]

Thanks for replies. Nice to find nice people here. Some forums snub you immediately if you are just a hobby person without super pro gear.