[interested_observer]

I ran across this article....

• the photography business and the american dream | Laurence Kim Photographer

[WerTicus]

Nice and depressing article :P

[FullertonImages]

"How much does it cost you to not be an a-hole?" Haha! Best advice there is out there.

A bit of a troubling post, but everything he said is very true. If someone's not willing to accept those terms, then professional photography is not for them.

[RioRico]

As I've mentioned before, I've read that in USA the average fast-food manager has a greater income than the average working photographer. The lesson: Go to McFood U, and shoot when you're off-shift. Or on-shift -- shoot your customers, they're always bizarre subjects.

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Last edited by RioRico; 05-16-2011 at 12:36 PM.

[MRRiley]

I'll add my agreement as well... the article is pretty sobering but is right on the mark.

Mike

[K-9]

Is this guy serious??

Film itself is hot. There’s just a large interest in film right now. Photographers are looking for any area of differentiation they can find, and film can certainly be an attractive one.

Then he says this:

If your camera is less than 3 years old, there is NO NEED to upgrade your cameras. EVER. Cameras are so good now that you should use them until they wear out. I am still using my 5 year old 5D and getting stunning images from it. I could shoot all of my portrait sessions with my $60, 30 year old Olympus OM2n and my clients would be thrilled with the results.

However, if you look at his site, he says he now uses a Phase One 645DF for all his portrait work. That's a $6000 camera folks. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me.

[alohadave]

Is this guy serious??



Then he says this:



However, if you look at his site, he says he now uses a Phase One 645DF for all his portrait work. That's a $6000 camera folks. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me.

He's not starting out, and is firmly established in his business. If he is getting enough of the kind of work that requires that kind of camera and resolution, then it's an investment in his business. It's also a 2 year old camera model.

[magkelly]

The only real problem with listening to this guy is that he has a one track mind set when it comes to making his photography a business. Weddings are not the only way to make a living with your camera! When it comes to serious photography there are actually quite a few ways to take that camera, carve a niche of your own, and make some decent money. You just need to be good at it, see your niche, and go for it!

That being said different people have different ideas of what constitutes the "American Dream" and how much money it requires to live it. I'm personally not that much into buying the average 200K house, driving a 50K car so actually making 100K a year isn't all that important to me. Neither am I even considering having a couple of children, the raising of which usually which costs a small fortune over time.

A lot of his retail figures are actually based on the old way of retail management where the upwardly mobile manager, area manager actually got extra money for being one via store commissions and the like. I can tell you from personal experience that you're VERY lucky to get into a company that uses that system now.

The reason so many retail managers leave these days to get their own businesses going is they can't make the money they used to or count on being employed at all.

I was in retail for a very long time. I ran multiple stores at one point for more than one company. I was constantly watching the companies I worked for reorganizing (Salary cuts, double work, anyone?) cutting back and even closing due to poor management and the bad economy. During that time I went from making a decent salary and working maybe 50 hours to working for peanuts and being told over and over again that in order to even keep my job I had to work 80 plus hours a week running multiple stores with no OT pay because I was on salary not hourly pay. When I actually tallied up my working hours versus what I made? I was making less than my sales clerks most of the time and btw, benefits were non-existent most of the time because they were one of the first things to go when a company started operating on the bottom line. If I wanted health insurance, a pension et all? I had to pay for that myself on an already stretched to the limits wage.

No, I probably won't make much more working for myself doing what I love. I'll still be paying for my own insurance et all, but I likely won't be making much less either, and at least I will have no one else to answer to. I'll gladly take working for myself for 50 hours a week probably making 30K over getting ulcers working 80 hours a week for the same rate of pay. I may not have a huge sum in the bank to retire on, but I'll get by, and I'll have something I never had working retail or in an office, real satisfaction in doing said job.

Ironically, for me, some level of job security will finally come from going that route too. Working for myself I can't be laid off. I'm working FOR myself too which is actually quite liberating because working your arse off in management, watching companies fail despite all your time and efforts a lot of the time because of mismanagement at the corporate level and corporate money problems that can be very discouraging.

Starting over yet again? Yup, but this time at least I'm not doing it for someone else who has no idea of what they are doing or how to treat their employees. I may still be working OT at times and not getting paid more for it, but at least in the end the $$$ I make will be going into my pocket and not into buying someone a corporate jet or a 5.2 million dollar house their struggling company can ill afford...

Going to work with a smile on my face every day? Finally making my own money for myself? Working my own hours and having my own business? No arse kissing an often totally incompetent maniac of a boss/owner just to desperately hold onto the scarce and likely soon to be gone job that's paying me practically nothing? That is worth far more to me than anything I have ever done or accomplished in the corporate world or any amount of $$$$.

The American Dream often comes with a whole lot of BS and disappointment. That's something they rarely teach you in school, that you will actually fail, maybe even many times before it finally happens that it works for you. The way things used to work, the corporate model, that's all going. Corporate companies simply do not work the way they used to, pay the way they used to, reward the way they used to and many of them despite all that downsizing and restraint will never make it.

You want to really get ahead in this world? Be happy at work? Maybe keep a roof over your head? You need to make your own dream and be the boss working for yourself. That's the "next, new thing" as many of the people out there who have been laid off an downsized can tell you. A lot of of these people don't stay unemployed just looking for the same. They're realizing that they're not going to get that, the new job with the security they want, so they're making their own way instead.

There's a definite rising wave of "F- corporate America" attitude and I'm definitely into riding that wave even if it ultimately means I don't make 100K a year!

[wildman]

The "American Dream" is just that - a dream and often a bad one.

[MRRiley]

The only real problem with listening to this guy is that he has a one track mind set when it comes to making his photography a business. ..........

You make a lot of good points but that doesn't change that Mr. Kim is largely right about the difficulties of running a profitable and sustainable photography "business" these days. Sure it is "possible" but only a very small percentage of even "good" photographers can make enough solely off of photography to "make a living."

Personally, my business model is "make enough to pay for my gear and shooting expenses." I suffer from no illusion of being able to "quit my day job" any time soon, if ever. And once I finally "retire" photography will continue to be a supplement... not what I depend on to survive.

Mike

[magkelly]

Well, that's probably true I suppose for most, but I think I'll do better than average once I get going because I've already had that experience, the management of a business thing going for me. That end doesn't daunt me. I've been doing that since I was 18, usually for other people's benefit unfortunately.

Taking a few business oriented courses is something I think every budding wanna be photographer should definitely do if they're not coming from management to begin with. But I also think that not just starting out seeking to do what everyone around you is doing is also important. Why go to work competing against the whole world in the first place if a bit of thinking outside the box can give you your own place in the world?

My big thing in sales management work was always finding some niche market that wasn't being covered to death, someone I could sell my product to that wasn't already being canvassed by every other store just like ours. I always found that I could often make my store more profitable than most by going outside the market my employers seemed determined to court despite the fact that said market was already over saturated with businesses trying to sell them the exact same things. Used to get me into trouble sometimes, going against the stated business plan, but once they realized I was actually making money for them, usually when other managers in my region were not, they usually let me go do it.

When you think about it there are a lot of things out there that photography is needed for besides what most people usually think of when they decide to go there for a career. Not all of it is as much fun as say a fashion model shoot but nonetheless it's got to be done and people will pay to get it done once they realize you do it. That kind of work is always out there. I actually like working independently. No people in the studio sometimes, just product suits me just fine. Catalog work may not be glamorous but it will pay the bills, shrug.

I also found my people work niche, the one thing that I'm good at, the thing that I enjoy, and it's actually in a market that almost no one is covering. I actually already have a book of people who want me to do shoots for them. Come Fall when I am done with my internship I have 10 people signed on the dotted line ready to go and once they tell more people. show the others that do the same thing what I can do? I'm going to do quite nicely, I think, and I'm going to have a ball doing it too!

I don't think I'll ever make what someone like my first teacher makes. Don't care to if it means I have to live a crazy, stressful life to get it. If I can cover my personal expenses, getting new gear as I need it, keeping a roof over my head, and food on my table I'll be just fine.

There are always other jobs out there that will pay better than doing photography. Always reasons, and many of them are perfectly legit ones, not to go f/t at it. But I can't do that anymore. I can't live to make a paycheck and work at what I love only when I can afford to. I did that for far too long. It did not make me happy.

[K-9]

He's not starting out, and is firmly established in his business. If he is getting enough of the kind of work that requires that kind of camera and resolution, then it's an investment in his business. It's also a 2 year old camera model.

He's talking about film being "hot" on one of his pages, then says he still uses a 5D because there is no need to upgrade your cameras "EVER", then on another blog page he says he uses the Phase One. That's talking about 3 completely different spectrums. Sorry, hard to take someone seriously who throws out 3 conflicting viewpoints.

[WerTicus]

he just wants us to give up so he gets all the riches and gold that photographers get

[wtf_cowboy]

Articles like this don't discourage me at all. They only reaffirm that this is what I want to do for the rest of my life.

Making money is irrelevant in the grand scheme.

Imho of course.

[hillerby]

Articles like this don't discourage me at all. They only reaffirm that this is what I want to do for the rest of my life.

Making money is irrelevant in the grand scheme.

Imho of course.

You and I are of the same mind on this one ......... There's no damned point making a lot of money, cuz' the gubmit's gonna steal it from you anyhow! We don't have a gestapo in this country, we've got the IRS.