[JohnBee]

If you really do keep up on Sony news, you would know that Sony is not leaving the Full Frame market. In fact, Sony is about to become much more aggressive in the Full Frame market.

Yes, I saw that.
Though the question was not whether or not Sony would remain in the market but rather to point-out how difficult the market truly is.

Which raises the question;
Does Pentax have the cashflow to withstand a FF venture?

And based on what I've seen, I'd say the answer to that is a resounding no.

Sure there are a few people who believe FF is the key to success or that good shooting can only be achieved with a FF sensor. However that isn't to say that a FF Pentax is either possible or realistic for a small company like Pentax.

Personally, I think the FF affair is just a pipe dream.

[sjwaldron]

I'm also interested in 35mm full-frame Pentax. I do have a few requirements I would hope are part of it though. Not that I could afford it at the moment, but it would be a lot easier to acquire than a 645D and lenses to go along with it. I'd really like to see the FA limited in all their true awesomeness.

- Be small compared to all other 35mm full-frame DSLR cameras out there. Basically follow the K-7/K-5's example design wise.
- The usuals like good ergonomics, WR, SR, video, decent AF, good DR, and good high ISO.
- More video control settings (next logical step).

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/31629-da-lens-...ts-thread.html

Thank Falconeye and everyone else who contributed to that thread. It's still missing quite a few lenses, but some good data on currently available lenses for sure.

I'll summarize a bit:
There are quite a few current lenses sufficient for full-frame with a proper lens hood. The other lenses could be optionally cropped in-camera like other manufacturers do.

Sufficient or good on FF of the lenses that have been tested:
DA-L 35mm f2.4
DA 40mm f2.8 Limited
DA* 55mm f1.4 (likely)
DA 70mm f2.4
DA* 200mm f2.8
DA* 300mm f4 ("designed for FF" in the patent)
DA* 60-250mm f4 ("designed for FF" in the patent)
DA 55-300mm f4-5.8

Obviously good:
D-FA 100mm f2.8 WR Macro
D-FA 100mm f2.8 Macro
FA 31mm f1.8 Limited
FA 43mm f1.9 Limited
FA 77mm f1.8 Limited
FA 50mm f1.4
FA 50mm f2.8 Macro

I think that's more than sufficient to release a full-frame Pentax. Of course there are some holes to fill, but there are holes to fill right now with APS-C anyways.

[ozlizard]

I was all for a FF Pentx, even to the point where I was about to jump ship for a Sony A850.
Then along came the K5 and now Im' not really sure that there is a need to get a FF. As far as I can tell the K5 just about does everything a Canon 5D MK2 can do, and some things a hell of a lot better.
Of course there will be new FF's coming out that will surpass what is currently available.

Will Ricoh produce a "Pentax" FF? I don't think so, certainly not in the forseeable future.

Will they produce a successor to the K5? I hope so, but only time will tell. Maybe when the dust settles on this they will lay their cards on the table.

[Angevinn]

Yes, I saw that.
Though the question was not whether or not Sony would remain in the market but rather to point-out how difficult the market truly is.

Which raises the question;
Does Pentax have the cashflow to withstand a FF venture?

And based on what I've seen, I'd say the answer to that is a resounding no.

Sure there are a few people who believe FF is the key to success or that good shooting can only be achieved with a FF sensor. However that isn't to say that a FF Pentax is either possible or realistic for a small company like Pentax.

Personally, I think the FF affair is just a pipe dream.

Your opinion is fine, I'm glad you're not running Pentax though.

Let Ricoh-Pentax sort this out. People are interested in Full Frame cameras. 1.5% market share is not helping Pentax. New products have to be offered. Advertising would help too.

Sadly, people ask for Full Frame only to get shouted down by a lot of the same people on this forum. It's an OPEN forum. Respect other people's opinions and quit stating your opinion as fact.

Full Frame has a future, Nikon, Canon and Sony are getting ready to rock the format in the next 12 months. Third party lens developers must see a future in the Full Frame format or else they wouldn't develop lenses for it.

Realistically, if Pentax were to release a Full Frame camera I don't see it anytime soon (I hope Ricoh proves me wrong). Hoya pushed out products that were already in the pipeline. It doesn't look like Hoya put much into the Pentax camera division.

[maxfield_photo]

To quote Arthur O'Shaughnessy:

We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers,
And sitting by desolate streams;—
World-losers and world-forsakers,
On whom the pale moon gleams:
Yet we are the movers and shakers
Of the world for ever, it seems.

Hey, feel free to copy my sig folks, let them know how we feel

[Spare Tire]

Fullframe lenses plentiful in the used market. The whole point of FF is to use a mount that was already designed for it, with lenses that are already made for it.

[ogl]

If Ricoh comes out with a Pentax brand FF K-mount DSLR I will be a happy camper

New old dreams:ugh:

[jeffshaddix]

Your opinion is fine, I'm glad you're not running Pentax though.

Let Ricoh-Pentax sort this out. People are interested in Full Frame cameras. 1.5% market share is not helping Pentax. New products have to be offered. Advertising would help too.

Sadly, people ask for Full Frame only to get shouted down by a lot of the same people on this forum. It's an OPEN forum. Respect other people's opinions and quit stating your opinion as fact.

Full Frame has a future, Nikon, Canon and Sony are getting ready to rock the format in the next 12 months. Third party lens developers must see a future in the Full Frame format or else they wouldn't develop lenses for it.

Realistically, if Pentax were to release a Full Frame camera I don't see it anytime soon (I hope Ricoh proves me wrong). Hoya pushed out products that were already in the pipeline. It doesn't look like Hoya put much into the Pentax camera division.

I too hope for a FF Pentax body, mostly because I primarily use FF manual focus lenses and want as shallow DOF as possible. Sadly Zeiss and Voigtlander have stopped producing for Pentax, but perhaps with a FF option they will come back around. At least we still have Samyang, who seems to get better and better with each lens. I hear the next in the pipeline is a 24mm/1.4 (FF of course), I can't wait!

I like your idea of a mirrorless FF with hybrid viewfinder, but I'm not sure if that will work off the bat with the K-mount (different registration distance?). I'm sure others more knowledgeable will set me straight.

[jsherman999]

.

I'd hazard a guess that a significant number of folks who bought the K-5 in the first couple weeks of it's release would seriously consider a FF Pentax/Ricoh body.

If it was something unique - say, the smallest FF DSLR body available, and weather-sealed - it would also generate relatively large interest among customers of other mounts who may consider picking one up with a few small primes as a second 'travel' kit.

Ricoh is even more capable than Hoya of funding a gap-filler offering between the K-5 level and 645D. They obviously feel that the emerging markets in Asia will be hungry for quality interchangeable lens systems, and probably recognize that FF will be seen with greater clarity than ever before as a relatively (to MFD) affordable upgrade tier once EVF-mirrorless starts to become the standard in the apsc-and-below tiers.

I think FF might be a very good move for Pentax/Ricoh - if done right, done uniquely. This would also need to include investment in lenses to accelerate ROI schedule.



.

[RonHendriks1966]

Well a FF would be nice, even I personally would want a APS-H (20x30mm sensor)as top off the line camera.

What's needed for a FF line:

• DA 24mm/f2 WR
• DFA*85mm/f1.4
• DFA*28-70mm/f2.8
• DFA*80-200mm/f2.8
• Consumerlens DFA 25-125mm/f4 WR or anything like it as a kitlens.

So I see 4 legacy lenses do turn into modern lenses and one new lens. Not the biggest challenge in R&D. With this set it can take off.

Well for futures:

• Just make a star quality still image camera.
• Anything from 3-7 fps is good.
• Give it a 14- or 16-bit image engine.
• New electronics with support of UHS-I is important for the whole camera-line.
• New AF-module with tracking AF.

I should say that a productionline of some 2000 units a month is good for sales in the coming years and can be done with a profit.

Then again when Q can handle 2/3" sensorsize then a GXR-module with this sensor would be great. A full frame 645D sensor as second camera would also be great. That means a enormous series of camera's with sensosizes: 1/2.33"; 2/3"; aps-c; full frame; 645D-small and 645D full size.

[Rondec]

Ahahahaha. Surely you jest. The whole point of FF is that it meets 'pro' requirements, especially for high ISO and great AF (think sports shooters), and has the support pro shooters in editorial/ commercial environments need for fancy flash systems, top notch lenses etc.

Amateur FF is a potential dead end. Even Leica struggle to make good business out of affluent amateurs buying FF, which is about 99% of their market.

But then again, the Canon 5D2 is FF and certainly in the hands of WAY more amateurs than professionals. It is after all the 3rd most popular camera on flickr, after the D90 and the iPhone. I laugh at this fact. So many garbage images come out of flickr's 5D2 users it always makes me wonder why people value FF so.

I think this is the key. Pentax has to have something that equals the D700 in autofcous, buffer depth, fps, etc and in addition offers something else that attracts people to the system (small size, amazing ergonomics, funny colors, cheapest price) over Nikon/Canon offerings. Whatever product Pentax puts out there has to stand out over the existing full frame offerings or it will suffer the same fate as Sony.

Of course, on the lens side, Pentax needs some new lenses -- not only with regard to focal length, but also with regard to the in-lens motors they are using. SDM just won't cut it on full frame.

If Ricoh is going to sink a bunch of money into R and D, it could happen, but it sure feels like there are other things that are more important right now for the Pentax brand (fixing SDM, improving QC).

[Angevinn]

I think this is the key. Pentax has to have something that equals the D700 in autofcous, buffer depth, fps, etc and in addition offers something else that attracts people to the system (small size, amazing ergonomics, funny colors, cheapest price) over Nikon/Canon offerings. Whatever product Pentax puts out there has to stand out over the existing full frame offerings or it will suffer the same fate as Sony.

Of course, on the lens side, Pentax needs some new lenses -- not only with regard to focal length, but also with regard to the in-lens motors they are using. SDM just won't cut it on full frame.

If Ricoh is going to sink a bunch of money into R and D, it could happen, but it sure feels like there are other things that are more important right now for the Pentax brand (fixing SDM, improving QC).

The Pentax K5 with a Full Frame sensor would have been a very competent camera.

Pentax needs to fix many things: Autofocus, Flash, SDM, etc. These components are shared across many platforms. Even the $10,000 645D shares components with the K5. Full Frame would not be a stretch.

Pentax as a whole needs a lot of help. I hope Pentax gets real support from Ricoh.

[jogiba]

Where are all the FF lenses ?

Ricoh is not going to make a FF when Canon and Nikon have that market sowed up big time and the market is small.

Ricoh did not buy Pentax to lose money .. The money is in ASP-C and smaller size sensors.

The technology is getting so good, who needs FF. If you feel you need it, go to the 645D or get a Canikon

How many years have you guys been pushing FF and it is getting no where .. LOL, LOL.

Move on, as they say.


wll

Pentax could add more FF smc PENTAX D FA lenses while we use the legacy FF/35mm lenses. People are using 645 film lenses on the 645D with great results.

PentaxWebstore smc PENTAX D FA MACRO 100mm F2.8 WR

[johnmflores]

As nice as FF would be, could Ricoh/Pentax really support another line of lenses? They've already got:

MF
APS-C
Q
GXR

No other camera maker spreads themselves so thin, particularly with so little resources. Not Nikon. Not Canon. Not Sony. And would Pentax sell enough of them to get the support of Sigma, Tamron, Tokina, etc?

I suspect that it's a chicken/egg scenario - owners of other brands won't consider a Pentax FF until Pentax has a FF lens lineup to compete with Canon and Nikon, thus the Pentax FF would only sell to a fraction of the current Pentax population. I suspect that it's a small fraction.

[mattdm]

As nice as FF would be, could Ricoh/Pentax really support another line of lenses? They've already got:

MF
APS-C
Q
GXR

Exactly! Although the APS-C shares a mount with full-frame, it's a different lens lineup. Pentax is pretty much the only company making nice lenses designed for APS-C — that's a niche they cover well. If they produce a full-frame model, they'd have to decide whether to give up on that focus or spread themselves even thinner.

And the above list doesn't even count the myriad attached-lens point & shoot cameras from Ricoh and Pentax. That's probably the easiest area to sort out, but still — yet another thing.