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07-02-2011, 03:44 PM   #1
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Q to 645D , now fill in the gap with a FF Pentax Ricoh

If Ricoh comes out with a Pentax brand FF K-mount DSLR I will be a happy camper

07-02-2011, 05:36 PM   #2
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Amen to that, but don't just slap something together, it should be a professional camera. By most folks' estimations the K-5 would qualify as a pro-sumer model, a FF should go one step further.

Better/faster/more accurate autofocus, higher sync speed, maybe a small boost in usable ISO (no more theoretical ISO please), more metering segments, and bring back tethering. Resolution doesn't need to be earth-shattering, folks can always get a 645D if they absolutely must billboard sized enlargements, but something in the 16 to 21 MP range would be good.

And price, well, most of the folks who would be interested in that kind of camera are already willing to shell out a grand or more for a lens, so what's 2K among friends? (Personally I'd be willing to pay more than that, but I may be in the minority). Instead of spending R&D dollars developing a brand new mount that nobody wants, why not increase the options for the world's most beloved mount?
07-02-2011, 06:42 PM   #3
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I'd purchase a Pentax Full Frame camera, it's also long overdue.

Development costs for Auto-Focus, Flash, Video and Image Processing systems can be spread over both the APS-C and Full Frame camera models, maybe even Medium Formta. Hopefully Ricoh will get things moving. Ricoh does have some high quality products and does advertise (The Green Marquee in Times Square). These are really good marks in Ricoh's favor.

The patent for a Full Frame SR module was leaked awhile back. The link to the patent is no longer working.

The K5 is a competent camera, it would have been cool to see a Full Frame sensor in it.

Ricoh stated they are interested in expanding Pentax DSLR's and lenses. Let's hope Ricoh does a better job of operating Pentax than Hoya.
07-02-2011, 07:52 PM   #4
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Only One Trouble !!

Where are all the FF lenses ?

Ricoh is not going to make a FF when Canon and Nikon have that market sowed up big time and the market is small.

Ricoh did not buy Pentax to lose money .. The money is in ASP-C and smaller size sensors.

The technology is getting so good, who needs FF. If you feel you need it, go to the 645D or get a Canikon

How many years have you guys been pushing FF and it is getting no where .. LOL, LOL.

Move on, as they say.


wll

07-02-2011, 08:07 PM   #5
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I have to side with wll

Given that Pentax has no infrastructure to support FF I don't see the sense in developing something only to have it end-up on the novelty shelf.

Lets look at Sony for example?
Here is a company with all of the the clout needed to develop whatever glass is needed to meed the need. Yet there FF line-up never took off as expected and now there is talk that they want to get out of the FF race.

I also think the 645D gives us a good view of how difficult the FF market would be for Pentax. And that isn't taking into account the lack of FF glass either

Based on recent developments.
I'd say that the APC-C, 4/3'rd and FF format approach is on the chopping block.
And I can't say I know how long its going to take but I see no reason why they would stick around with technology that allows for RT DOF control.
Heck.. this we might even spell the end of the arperture and imaging plane as we know it.
07-02-2011, 08:20 PM   #6
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Right, so, Pentax-Ricoh has point & shoot Optio cameras, several Ricoh P&S lines, the GRX interchangeable module system, Pentax Q, Pentax APS-C mount, and 645D. Oooh! I know what they need! Another system to support.

And this should slot in at a price-point above their $1600-list SLR, because that's really the key segment of the market.
07-02-2011, 08:31 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by wll Quote
Where are all the FF lenses ?

Ricoh is not going to make a FF when Canon and Nikon have that market sowed up big time and the market is small.

Ricoh did not buy Pentax to lose money .. The money is in ASP-C and smaller size sensors.

The technology is getting so good, who needs FF. If you feel you need it, go to the 645D or get a Canikon

How many years have you guys been pushing FF and it is getting no where .. LOL, LOL.

Move on, as they say.


wll

What a sad reply. The reason FullFrame (Not Front Focus) went no where is that Hoya put almost nothing back into Pentax. Hoya simply shook out the drawers, raised prices and lessened quality. Pentax did file a patent for a FullFrame Shake Reduction system.

As long as I have the resources I'm going to keep asking for FullFrame. It's a better format than APS-C.

If you have a problem with it, then:
"Move on, as they say."
07-02-2011, 08:40 PM   #8
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Sony?

QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
I have to side with wll

Given that Pentax has no infrastructure to support FF I don't see the sense in developing something only to have it end-up on the novelty shelf.

Lets look at Sony for example?
Here is a company with all of the the clout needed to develop whatever glass is needed to meed the need. Yet there FF line-up never took off as expected and now there is talk that they want to get out of the FF race.

I also think the 645D gives us a good view of how difficult the FF market would be for Pentax. And that isn't taking into account the lack of FF glass either

Based on recent developments.
I'd say that the APC-C, 4/3'rd and FF format approach is on the chopping block.
And I can't say I know how long its going to take but I see no reason why they would stick around with technology that allows for RT DOF control.
Heck.. this we might even spell the end of the arperture and imaging plane as we know it.
Many of the current Pentax APS-C lenses are Full Frame ready. It really wouldn't be a stretch to go progress to Full Frame.

You bring up Sony, there are many reasons why Sony wasn't that successful with the A850/A900, but that's for a different post.

sonyalpharumors | Blog | (SR3) 36 Megapixel sensor for one of the fullframe prototypes

Is Sony really getting out of the race? Are Nikon and Canon, also?

You may want to expand your reading past Thom Hogan.

I read something by Zeiss that stated a good lens takes two years to develop. The lenses are coming, but quality takes time.

Besides, third party companies like Tamron, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Samyang, Sigma and Tokina are all producing Full Frame lenses and more Full Frame lenses are coming. That's more than can be said for APS-C.

You may want to run spell check on your future posts.

07-02-2011, 08:42 PM   #9
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Just as a thought balloon, and disregarding market realities, what would a Pentax FF system need to look like? - ie aside from a FF body (with certain necessary features to be defined - eg same Sony sensor as the Sony A900, decent fps, lots of cross-type Af sensors etc).

So you'd need:

- a batch of FF lenses to supplement the current FA's, including as essential 28-75/2.8 and 70-200 /2.8 zooms, a FF 35 /1.4 or 1.8;
- battery grip;
- tethering support (?);
- ???

What would FF using pros need?

Actually it doesn't sound like too much of an ask. Pentax have a whole library of lens designs to draw from if need be so it wouldn't kill them to re-start low-volume production of a new line of FF lenses.

Maybe Ricoh could try a premium Pentax FF out and see what the market reaction is without risking too much $$.

However I bet if they did probably only about 1000 people worldwide would buy it per year, just like Sony's FF experience.
07-02-2011, 08:43 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Right, so, Pentax-Ricoh has point & shoot Optio cameras, several Ricoh P&S lines, the GRX interchangeable module system, Pentax Q, Pentax APS-C mount, and 645D. Oooh! I know what they need! Another system to support.

And this should slot in at a price-point above their $1600-list SLR, because that's really the key segment of the market.
The APS-C mount is the Pentax K mount, a FULL FRAME mount. Many of the DA lenses already work on Full Frame.

There will be some consolidation between the Ricoh and Pentax product lines.
You forgot the kitchen sink in your list.
07-02-2011, 08:48 PM   #11
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DSLR or Mirrorless

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Just as a thought balloon, and disregarding market realities, what would a Pentax FF system need to look like? - ie aside from a FF body (with certain necessary features to be defined - eg same Sony sensor as the Sony A900, decent fps, lots of cross-type Af sensors etc).

So you'd need:

- a batch of FF lenses to supplement the current FA's, including as essential 28-75/2.8 and 70-200 /2.8 zooms, a FF 35 /1.4 or 1.8;
- battery grip;
- tethering support (?);
- ???

What would FF using pros need?

Actually it doesn't sound like too much of an ask. Pentax have a whole library of lens designs to draw from if need be so it wouldn't kill them to re-start low-volume production of a new line of FF lenses.

Maybe Ricoh could try a premium Pentax FF out and see what the market reaction is without risking too much $$.

However I bet if they did probably only about 1000 people worldwide would buy it per year, just like Sony's FF experience.

Would it have to be a professional grade DSLR? Some argue the Nikon D700 is not professional grade compared to the D3X. I doubt many pros are going to suddenly dump their Nikon and Canon gear to buy a Pentax Full Frame, but an enthusiast grade Full Frame similar to the K5 would do well.

Why does a Full Frame camera have to be a DSLR? A Full Frame could be a Mirrorless camera like the Fuji X100, but with interchangeable lenses and a hybrid viewfinder. Pentax already filed patents for such a viewfinder.
07-02-2011, 08:50 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
Many of the current Pentax APS-C lenses are Full Frame ready. It really wouldn't be a stretch to go progress to Full Frame
Interesting, which ones are those?

QuoteQuote:
You bring up Sony, there are many reasons why Sony wasn't that successful with the A850/A900, but that's for a different post.
Is Sony really getting out of the race? Are Nikon and Canon, also?
I don't know(its possible). though I don't think such type of developments are what Pentax needs. I mean just look at the difficulties our Sony corporate giant has faced and then contrast this with the Pentax business. Then ask yourself... does Pentax have the userbase to sustain a FF body in their lineup? Based on the amount of flack brought-up by the K-5's entry level pricing I'd say no.

QuoteQuote:
You may want to expand your reading past Thom Hogan.
I don't read Thom Hogan
My views are made-up of what I read from other sites(ie. Sony forum etc).

QuoteQuote:
You may want to run spell check on your future posts.
I write with spell-check enabled.
But since English is not my first language, its quite common for me to use the wrong choice or type of word in my text.
07-02-2011, 09:05 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Interesting, which ones are those?

I don't know(its possible). though I don't think such type of developments are what Pentax needs. I mean just look at the difficulties our Sony corporate giant has faced and then contrast this with the Pentax business. Then ask yourself... does Pentax have the userbase to sustain a FF body in their lineup? Based on the amount of flack brought-up by the K-5's entry level pricing I'd say no.

I don't read Thom Hogan
My views are made-up of what I read from other sites(ie. Sony forum etc).

I write with spell-check enabled.
But since English is not my first language, its quite common for me to use the wrong choice or type of word in my text.
If you really do keep up on Sony news, you would know that Sony is not leaving the Full Frame market. In fact, Sony is about to become much more aggressive in the Full Frame market.

See this link:

sonyalpharumors | Blog | (SR3) 36 Megapixel sensor for one of the fullframe prototypes

If anyone wishes to read up on DA lenses that are Full Frame ready, they can check out this thread on the forum.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/31629-da-lens-...ts-thread.html

Not all DA lenses are Full Frame capable, but a number are.

Pentax just collaborated with Tokina on a few Full Frame lenses as well.

I am fluent in more than one language as well. Keep practicing your English.

You'll get better at it.

07-02-2011, 09:06 PM   #14
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Much as I'd love to see a Pentax-brand FF body, I have to admit that the K5 and 645D cover the higher end pretty well. And given that Ricoh are talking about repurposing some 645D technology for office equipment, I'm wondering if this could lead to greater economies of scale, and even more keenly priced MF solutions for the pro market.
07-02-2011, 09:22 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
an enthusiast grade Full Frame similar to the K5 would do well
Ahahahaha. Surely you jest. The whole point of FF is that it meets 'pro' requirements, especially for high ISO and great AF (think sports shooters), and has the support pro shooters in editorial/ commercial environments need for fancy flash systems, top notch lenses etc.

Amateur FF is a potential dead end. Even Leica struggle to make good business out of affluent amateurs buying FF, which is about 99% of their market.

But then again, the Canon 5D2 is FF and certainly in the hands of WAY more amateurs than professionals. It is after all the 3rd most popular camera on flickr, after the D90 and the iPhone. I laugh at this fact. So many garbage images come out of flickr's 5D2 users it always makes me wonder why people value FF so.

Last edited by rawr; 07-02-2011 at 09:31 PM.
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