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RioRico · 08-14-2011, 03:27 PM

From Long Beach [CA] Police Chief:

Long Beach Police Chief: we detain photographers, and I don’t have any guidelines for that policy, photography is classed with attempts to acquire weaponized smallpox

Yes, another one of these. Discuss.

**Digitalis** · 08-14-2011, 03:55 PM

Photographers in the US get it pretty rough. Here in Oz, anyone stating that a photographer is equally as dangerous as bioterrorist would be ridiculed.

kenafein · 08-14-2011, 03:59 PM

Let's all get together and make a run on Long Beach and take some very legal photos in protest.

fuent104 · 08-14-2011, 04:24 PM

I think this is fine. It looks like he's just saying their officers will question people, not detain them. I've taken pictures like this in Long Beach and not run into problems with police, and I wouldn't mind if a police officer were to ask me what I was doing while taking photographs.

fuent104 · 08-14-2011, 04:26 PM

I'm sorry, he did say they will detain people if necessary in the officer's judgement. That is pretty broad, but my guess would be that plenty of places have this type of policy...however, if they ever do catch a terrorist under this policy, I don't think too many of us will be mad because the terrorist's rights were violated.

cwood · 08-14-2011, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by fuent104

I think this is fine. It looks like he's just saying their officers will question people, not detain them. I've taken pictures like this in Long Beach and not run into problems with police, and I wouldn't mind if a police officer were to ask me what I was doing while taking photographs.

The original article is better
Long Beach Post: Police Chief Confirms Detaining Photographers Within Departmental Policy

Legally, a police detention has occurred when "a reasonable individual" in that circumstance would be believe he or she is not free to leave

JinDesu · 08-14-2011, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by fuent104

I'm sorry, he did say they will detain people if necessary in the officer's judgement. That is pretty broad, but my guess would be that plenty of places have this type of policy...however, if they ever do catch a terrorist under this policy, I don't think too many of us will be mad because the terrorist's rights were violated.

I don't think the method of implementing restrictive policies is to hope that people don't mind once you do catch a terrorist.

Disregarding the anecdote in the story, the only bit that annoys me is that its left to the officer's judgement whether or not the subject of your photograph is worth shooting.

RioRico · 08-14-2011, 05:05 PM

What evidence justifies detaining a photographer on suspicion of terrorism?

In the Western world, has anyone wielding a camera been convicted of terrorism?

If you're a terrorist, casing a target, would you surveill with a dSLR, or with Google World?

fuent104 · 08-14-2011, 07:08 PM

To those of us who love photography, the act of creating a photograph is not usually a malicious act. However, I doubt there are many of us who are not aware that people who are not photographers are sometimes suspicious of us.

One way to pretty much always make yourself seem suspicious when talking to a police officer is to be less than 100% cooperative. When the officer asked to see the reporter's license, and he responding by asking "is that really necessary," he put himself in a situation in which many officers would then view him as a suspicious person.

I agree that the aesthetic value of the subject should be something with a better definition. Alternatively, the police department could have a set of questions they ask to help clarify whether the person really has photographic interests.

I'd be very surprised if no terrorists have ever used cameras when planning their attacks.

**dadipentak** · 08-14-2011, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by fuent104

I'd be very surprised if no terrorists have ever used cameras when planning their attacks.

Ballpoint pens, too.

George Lama · 08-14-2011, 08:44 PM

And computers, video cameras, cell phones, GPS devices have all been used by terrorists.

Public restrooms, particularly at truck stops, and port-a-potties at outdoor events are definitely a source of weapon's grade biological material. I say ban them all in the name of national security.

Reality check - With that logic, who needs terrorists?

richard balonglong · 08-14-2011, 09:35 PM

hehehe... a lot of people are really suspicious about photographers taking photographs of anything, anyone, and anywhere. I've encountered a lot about it here in our place.

Experience 1: One night, I went out to take some night street shots, and I saw the beautiful street lamps of one of the malls here in our place. I went there at the side walk, took a long exposure of the lamps and some light streaks from passing by cars. And there, a security from the mall came to me asking questions why I'm taking photographs, and they were forcing me to go to their office for "interrogation". Then I told them "What?! Are you serious?? I'm just taking a photograph of street lamps and cars passing by!" Then I showed them the photos I took. But still they are forcing me to go to their security office. Then, I got pissed off, so I told them "If you took me there at your office to keep me without valid reasons, I could sue you for illegal detention.". So there, I just went off to other places to shoot. hehe. Those security guards are like paranoids. What do they think are they guarding, a research facility?? Man, it's just a shopping mall, and I was just photographing a road with some pretty lights.

Experience 2: One day, I went out to a public street market to document some vegetables and its price increase. One part of the street market, when I took out my camera and point then shoot, then suddenly a lot of street vendors got panicked and scrambled and ran fast away from me. Some even shouted "run!". I was like "What the F..?!?". So, I asked one of the store owners at the street market why they ran away from me and looked really scared. The store owner told me (and was laughing) those street vendors thought I was one of those people from the government who captures products that are displayed illegally on the side of the streets of the market. hehehe.

Experience 3 (my cousin's experience actually): My cousin works as a crew from a cargo ship, so they travel around the world. When their ship docked at some country, at the sea port, there was a battle ship that was docked too. My cousin saw the battle ship and was amazed. It was his first time to see a battle ship. So, he took out his point-and-shoot camera and took some photos of the battle ship. But then, some military personnel went out and arrested my cousin. To make the story short, the military thought that he was a spy because he was taking photos of the battle ship. He was then detained for one month. The company where my cousin works negotiated and explained to the military that he was just a crew and just taking some souvenir photos. Then they released my cousin. Well, that's a lesson learned in a hard way.

reeftool · 08-14-2011, 09:43 PM

This is BS and the cops are going to get some attitude from me if they tell me I can't take pictures in a public place.

fuent104 · 08-14-2011, 10:19 PM

I don't think the photos are what motivates the police to detain people (in America), I think it is the attitude. A similar situation might be when a cop asks someone to take a sobriety test. If the person reacts by showing anger, the cop might interpret it as defensiveness, and assume the person has been drinking. I don't know. I'd be interested in hearing the response of a police officer, if there are any on the forum.

v5planet · 08-14-2011, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by RioRico

What evidence justifies detaining a photographer on suspicion of terrorism?

In the Western world, has anyone wielding a camera been convicted of terrorism?

If you're a terrorist, casing a target, would you surveill with a dSLR, or with Google World?

Indeed, the next time I see one of Google's 360-degree camera cars I will be sure to report it to the police. That would be the best episode of Cops ever.

Bad Boys,
Bad Boys,
Whatcha gonna do when they upload you?

08-14-2011, 03:27 PM	#1
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	photography is classed with attempts to acquire weaponized smallpox From Long Beach [CA] Police Chief: Long Beach Police Chief: we detain photographers, and I don’t have any guidelines for that policy, photography is classed with attempts to acquire weaponized smallpox Yes, another one of these. Discuss.

08-14-2011, 09:35 PM	#12
richard balonglong Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Baguio City, Philippines Photos: Gallery Posts: 350	hehehe... a lot of people are really suspicious about photographers taking photographs of anything, anyone, and anywhere. I've encountered a lot about it here in our place. Experience 1: One night, I went out to take some night street shots, and I saw the beautiful street lamps of one of the malls here in our place. I went there at the side walk, took a long exposure of the lamps and some light streaks from passing by cars. And there, a security from the mall came to me asking questions why I'm taking photographs, and they were forcing me to go to their office for "interrogation". Then I told them "What?! Are you serious?? I'm just taking a photograph of street lamps and cars passing by!" Then I showed them the photos I took. But still they are forcing me to go to their security office. Then, I got pissed off, so I told them "If you took me there at your office to keep me without valid reasons, I could sue you for illegal detention.". So there, I just went off to other places to shoot. hehe. Those security guards are like paranoids. What do they think are they guarding, a research facility?? Man, it's just a shopping mall, and I was just photographing a road with some pretty lights. Experience 2: One day, I went out to a public street market to document some vegetables and its price increase. One part of the street market, when I took out my camera and point then shoot, then suddenly a lot of street vendors got panicked and scrambled and ran fast away from me. Some even shouted "run!". I was like "What the F..?!?". So, I asked one of the store owners at the street market why they ran away from me and looked really scared. The store owner told me (and was laughing) those street vendors thought I was one of those people from the government who captures products that are displayed illegally on the side of the streets of the market. hehehe. Experience 3 (my cousin's experience actually): My cousin works as a crew from a cargo ship, so they travel around the world. When their ship docked at some country, at the sea port, there was a battle ship that was docked too. My cousin saw the battle ship and was amazed. It was his first time to see a battle ship. So, he took out his point-and-shoot camera and took some photos of the battle ship. But then, some military personnel went out and arrested my cousin. To make the story short, the military thought that he was a spy because he was taking photos of the battle ship. He was then detained for one month. The company where my cousin works negotiated and explained to the military that he was just a crew and just taking some souvenir photos. Then they released my cousin. Well, that's a lesson learned in a hard way. Last edited by richard balonglong; 08-14-2011 at 09:44 PM.

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08-14-2011, 03:55 PM	#2
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,695	Photographers in the US get it pretty rough. Here in Oz, anyone stating that a photographer is equally as dangerous as bioterrorist would be ridiculed.

08-14-2011, 03:59 PM	#3
kenafein Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Southern California Photos: Albums Posts: 4,082	Let's all get together and make a run on Long Beach and take some very legal photos in protest.

08-14-2011, 04:24 PM	#4
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	I think this is fine. It looks like he's just saying their officers will question people, not detain them. I've taken pictures like this in Long Beach and not run into problems with police, and I wouldn't mind if a police officer were to ask me what I was doing while taking photographs.

08-14-2011, 04:26 PM	#5
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	I'm sorry, he did say they will detain people if necessary in the officer's judgement. That is pretty broad, but my guess would be that plenty of places have this type of policy...however, if they ever do catch a terrorist under this policy, I don't think too many of us will be mad because the terrorist's rights were violated.

08-14-2011, 04:41 PM	#6
cwood Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: California Posts: 851	Originally posted by fuent104 I think this is fine. It looks like he's just saying their officers will question people, not detain them. I've taken pictures like this in Long Beach and not run into problems with police, and I wouldn't mind if a police officer were to ask me what I was doing while taking photographs. The original article is better Long Beach Post: Police Chief Confirms Detaining Photographers Within Departmental Policy Legally, a police detention has occurred when "a reasonable individual" in that circumstance would be believe he or she is not free to leave

08-14-2011, 04:42 PM	#7
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Originally posted by fuent104 I'm sorry, he did say they will detain people if necessary in the officer's judgement. That is pretty broad, but my guess would be that plenty of places have this type of policy...however, if they ever do catch a terrorist under this policy, I don't think too many of us will be mad because the terrorist's rights were violated. I don't think the method of implementing restrictive policies is to hope that people don't mind once you do catch a terrorist. Disregarding the anecdote in the story, the only bit that annoys me is that its left to the officer's judgement whether or not the subject of your photograph is worth shooting.

08-14-2011, 05:05 PM	#8
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263 Original Poster	What evidence justifies detaining a photographer on suspicion of terrorism? In the Western world, has anyone wielding a camera been convicted of terrorism? If you're a terrorist, casing a target, would you surveill with a dSLR, or with Google World?

08-14-2011, 07:08 PM	#9
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	To those of us who love photography, the act of creating a photograph is not usually a malicious act. However, I doubt there are many of us who are not aware that people who are not photographers are sometimes suspicious of us. One way to pretty much always make yourself seem suspicious when talking to a police officer is to be less than 100% cooperative. When the officer asked to see the reporter's license, and he responding by asking "is that really necessary," he put himself in a situation in which many officers would then view him as a suspicious person. I agree that the aesthetic value of the subject should be something with a better definition. Alternatively, the police department could have a set of questions they ask to help clarify whether the person really has photographic interests. I'd be very surprised if no terrorists have ever used cameras when planning their attacks.

08-14-2011, 07:44 PM	#10
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	Originally posted by fuent104 I'd be very surprised if no terrorists have ever used cameras when planning their attacks. Ballpoint pens, too.

08-14-2011, 08:44 PM	#11
George Lama Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Buffalo/Rochester, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,133	And computers, video cameras, cell phones, GPS devices have all been used by terrorists. Public restrooms, particularly at truck stops, and port-a-potties at outdoor events are definitely a source of weapon's grade biological material. I say ban them all in the name of national security. Reality check - With that logic, who needs terrorists?

08-14-2011, 09:43 PM	#13
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,555	This is BS and the cops are going to get some attitude from me if they tell me I can't take pictures in a public place.

08-14-2011, 10:19 PM	#14
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	I don't think the photos are what motivates the police to detain people (in America), I think it is the attitude. A similar situation might be when a cop asks someone to take a sobriety test. If the person reacts by showing anger, the cop might interpret it as defensiveness, and assume the person has been drinking. I don't know. I'd be interested in hearing the response of a police officer, if there are any on the forum.

08-14-2011, 10:41 PM	#15
v5planet Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Seattle Photos: Albums Posts: 1,915	Originally posted by RioRico What evidence justifies detaining a photographer on suspicion of terrorism? In the Western world, has anyone wielding a camera been convicted of terrorism? If you're a terrorist, casing a target, would you surveill with a dSLR, or with Google World? Indeed, the next time I see one of Google's 360-degree camera cars I will be sure to report it to the police. That would be the best episode of Cops ever. Bad Boys, Bad Boys, Whatcha gonna do when they upload you?