Oppurtunity knocking - will my gear handle this?

**mattb123** · 08-15-2011, 10:43 AM

I may have a chance to shoot a big pro bike race from the back of a motorcycle. This won't be like anything I have done before and it's kind of exciting! I know I should have >1 body, but I still just have the K-x. I'd also like to use a flash (I have a Sigma DG 530 Super flash) but I think the sync limit will bite me here for daylight, won't it?
Is the 1/180s limit for manual as well as TTL? Can I get around it using manual settings on camera and flash or is the 1/180s a hard limit that cannot be worked around?
As for lenses, I was thinking the Tamron 28-75 would be the primary since I'll be relatively close to the action. I also have the DA L 55-300 if I need more reach and the light is plentiful enough for that lens. I also have some primes, but I don't think this would be the right situation for any of them (135, 50, 100, 40, 15).

Has anyone else done anything like this? Any tips or ideas would be appreciated!

**luftfluss** · 08-15-2011, 10:55 AM

Don't the Sigma "Super" flashes support HSS? On my 500 DG Super it's called "FP" mode.

mannesty · 08-15-2011, 11:02 AM

If the Pentax K-x can use High Speed Sync, it can synch at any shutter speed you can select. As your flash is one of the 'Super' models, checkout it's manual for references to FP (Focal Plane) flash.

Because the frame is exposed using a series of flash pulses, output power is reduced.

This might be useful to you.

EDIT: I just made some test HSS exposures using my K5 + 540FGZ at 1/8000th and at 1/800th. It works fine and it seems you don't need to change anything on camera, just set the flash to HSS mode, or in your case, FP mode.

rob1234 · 08-15-2011, 11:18 AM

Yep, HSS works fine with the 530DGS. Might be worth bumping the ISO up (800?) to increase the effective range - noise shouldn't be too much of a problem in decent light.

**mattb123** · 08-15-2011, 11:34 AM

Thanks guys. I'm going to experiment with this a little and see how it works!

**volley** · 08-15-2011, 11:36 AM

I have my doubts that a 55-300 lens will be of much use on the back of a motorbike. I know a guy who is one of the motorbike riders driving photographers during the Tour de France. They tend to be very close to the action - the 15 mm prime might see more use than the 55-300.

Have fun!

**mattb123** · 08-15-2011, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by volley

I have my doubts that a 55-300 lens will be of much use on the back of a motorbike. I know a guy who is one of the motorbike riders driving photographers during the Tour de France. They tend to be very close to the action - the 15 mm prime might see more use than the 55-300.

Have fun!

Thanks and I agree although I was thinking the 28-75 might be more useful for versatility. I don't want to have to try and change lenses in this environment! This will be many of the same guys from the TdF by the way, including all three top finishers this year. As a photographer AND cycling fan this is very exciting for me!

philbaum · 08-15-2011, 12:02 PM

Matt,
An interesting challenge - good luck to you!

Some uninformed comments:

A. Flash sounds like a really bad idea from a safety standpoint. I wouldn't want to be responsible for temporarily blinding a pro rider as they are going into a high speed corner. Secondly, you'll have enough to do zooming in and out, worrying about flash recharge rates and FEC on the back of a motorcycle sounds like a mess even apart from the safety.

B. I think you want a handgrip for your camera so its really "glued" to your hand, Loose hanging straps with a rapidly spinning wheel under your seat sounds like a safety issue. just the handgrip if its good enough.

C. 17-70 F4 is what i'm imagining. 28 isn't wide enough i would think for some shots where you might want more of the action.

Tell us how its going in the preparation, if you've got time.

Best wishes,

**volley** · 08-15-2011, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by mattb123

Thanks and I agree although I was thinking the 28-75 might be more useful for versatility. I don't want to have to try and change lenses in this environment! This will be many of the same guys from the TdF by the way, including all three top finishers this year. As a photographer AND cycling fan this is very exciting for me!

I was thinking of the 15mm prime as a 2nd lens. From the collection you have for sure the 28-75 is the best choice for the majority of shots.

I'm sure this will be an exciting experience. By the way: are you an experienced passenger on a motorbike? This would help a lot!

**mattb123** · 08-15-2011, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by volley

I was thinking of the 15mm prime as a 2nd lens. From the collection you have for sure the 28-75 is the best choice for the majority of shots.

I'm sure this will be an exciting experience. By the way: are you an experienced passenger on a motorbike? This would help a lot!

Yes, I'll bring the 15 for when I'm off the bike for sure.

I have been a passenger on a motorcycle quite a few times when I was in high school. My brother and his friends were all into street bikes and I would catch rides with them regularly. I don't think I have been on one in the 25 years since, so I might be rusty and then probably sore afterward. Hopefully I'll remember enough to be able to get the shots and not fall off!

I'm more of a human-powered cyclist which may also help, but the forces are going to be on a different scale, I'm sure.

**mattb123** · 08-15-2011, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

Matt,
An interesting challenge - good luck to you!

Some uninformed comments:

A. Flash sounds like a really bad idea from a safety standpoint. I wouldn't want to be responsible for temporarily blinding a pro rider as they are going into a high speed corner. Secondly, you'll have enough to do zooming in and out, worrying about flash recharge rates and FEC on the back of a motorcycle sounds like a mess even apart from the safety.

B. I think you want a handgrip for your camera so its really "glued" to your hand, Loose hanging straps with a rapidly spinning wheel under your seat sounds like a safety issue. just the handgrip if its good enough.

C. 17-70 F4 is what i'm imagining. 28 isn't wide enough i would think for some shots where you might want more of the action.

Tell us how its going in the preparation, if you've got time.

Best wishes,

It's going to be mid-day so fill light will help the shots a lot and the pros I see doing this in the Tour de France use flashes so I don't think the riders will have a problem with it.

I was thinking I'd just keep the neck strap around my neck so if I need both hands to hold on I can just let go of the camera and use both hands!

**volley** · 08-15-2011, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by mattb123

Yes, I'll bring the 15 for when I'm off the bike for sure.

I have been a passenger on a motorcycle quite a few times when I was in high school. My brother and his friends were all into street bikes and I would catch rides with them regularly. I don't think I have been on one in the 25 years since, so I might be rusty and then probably sore afterward. Hopefully I'll remember enough to be able to get the shots and not fall off!

I'm more of a human-powered cyclist which may also help, but the forces are going to be on a different scale, I'm sure.

Yes, a passenger can be a challenge for the driver - try to avoid screeming at high speeds

asp1880 · 08-15-2011, 02:01 PM

That gig sounds like fun. I'm envious.

I once saw a motorcycle cameraman using a speedlight with an off camera cord in the left hand, holding it low to light the riders face, while shooting one-handed with the camera in the right hand. That might take some practice to perform safely.

Have fun. Did I mention I'm envious?

Sincerely,
--Anders.

**mattb123** · 08-15-2011, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by asp1880

That gig sounds like fun. I'm envious.

I once saw a motorcycle cameraman using a speedlight with an off camera cord in the left hand, holding it low to light the riders face, while shooting one-handed with the camera in the right hand. That might take some practice to perform safely.

Have fun. Did I mention I'm envious?

Sincerely,
--Anders.

That's a good idea. I have some wireless triggers, but I bet I can't do HSS with one of those. Hmmm. Maybe I can order a cable and get it in time....

newarts · 08-15-2011, 04:38 PM

Do I have this straight?

You are going to be sitting backwards as a motorcycle passenger moving fast on the periphery of a race and you are going to hold a flash in one hand while you adjust a zoom lens and hold a camera with the other?

It would seem that some practice and a lot of duct tape will be helpful.

Write a letter to be given to your mother first!

08-15-2011, 10:43 AM	#1
mattb123 Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Colorado High Country Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,872	Oppurtunity knocking - will my gear handle this? I may have a chance to shoot a big pro bike race from the back of a motorcycle. This won't be like anything I have done before and it's kind of exciting! I know I should have >1 body, but I still just have the K-x. I'd also like to use a flash (I have a Sigma DG 530 Super flash) but I think the sync limit will bite me here for daylight, won't it? Is the 1/180s limit for manual as well as TTL? Can I get around it using manual settings on camera and flash or is the 1/180s a hard limit that cannot be worked around? As for lenses, I was thinking the Tamron 28-75 would be the primary since I'll be relatively close to the action. I also have the DA L 55-300 if I need more reach and the light is plentiful enough for that lens. I also have some primes, but I don't think this would be the right situation for any of them (135, 50, 100, 40, 15). Has anyone else done anything like this? Any tips or ideas would be appreciated!

08-15-2011, 11:02 AM	#3
mannesty Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Totana - Murcia (Spain) Posts: 127	If the Pentax K-x can use High Speed Sync, it can synch at any shutter speed you can select. As your flash is one of the 'Super' models, checkout it's manual for references to FP (Focal Plane) flash. Because the frame is exposed using a series of flash pulses, output power is reduced. This might be useful to you. EDIT: I just made some test HSS exposures using my K5 + 540FGZ at 1/8000th and at 1/800th. It works fine and it seems you don't need to change anything on camera, just set the flash to HSS mode, or in your case, FP mode. Last edited by mannesty; 08-15-2011 at 11:09 AM.

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08-15-2011, 10:55 AM	#2
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Don't the Sigma "Super" flashes support HSS? On my 500 DG Super it's called "FP" mode.

08-15-2011, 11:18 AM	#4
rob1234 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Wiltshire/Hampshire Photos: Albums Posts: 1,760	Yep, HSS works fine with the 530DGS. Might be worth bumping the ISO up (800?) to increase the effective range - noise shouldn't be too much of a problem in decent light.

08-15-2011, 11:34 AM	#5
mattb123 Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Colorado High Country Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,872 Original Poster	Thanks guys. I'm going to experiment with this a little and see how it works!

08-15-2011, 11:36 AM	#6
volley Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Springe Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,693	I have my doubts that a 55-300 lens will be of much use on the back of a motorbike. I know a guy who is one of the motorbike riders driving photographers during the Tour de France. They tend to be very close to the action - the 15 mm prime might see more use than the 55-300. Have fun!

08-15-2011, 11:45 AM	#7
mattb123 Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Colorado High Country Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,872 Original Poster	Originally posted by volley I have my doubts that a 55-300 lens will be of much use on the back of a motorbike. I know a guy who is one of the motorbike riders driving photographers during the Tour de France. They tend to be very close to the action - the 15 mm prime might see more use than the 55-300. Have fun! Thanks and I agree although I was thinking the 28-75 might be more useful for versatility. I don't want to have to try and change lenses in this environment! This will be many of the same guys from the TdF by the way, including all three top finishers this year. As a photographer AND cycling fan this is very exciting for me!

08-15-2011, 12:02 PM	#8
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Matt, An interesting challenge - good luck to you! Some uninformed comments: A. Flash sounds like a really bad idea from a safety standpoint. I wouldn't want to be responsible for temporarily blinding a pro rider as they are going into a high speed corner. Secondly, you'll have enough to do zooming in and out, worrying about flash recharge rates and FEC on the back of a motorcycle sounds like a mess even apart from the safety. B. I think you want a handgrip for your camera so its really "glued" to your hand, Loose hanging straps with a rapidly spinning wheel under your seat sounds like a safety issue. just the handgrip if its good enough. C. 17-70 F4 is what i'm imagining. 28 isn't wide enough i would think for some shots where you might want more of the action. Tell us how its going in the preparation, if you've got time. Best wishes,

08-15-2011, 12:10 PM	#9
volley Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Springe Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,693	Originally posted by mattb123 Thanks and I agree although I was thinking the 28-75 might be more useful for versatility. I don't want to have to try and change lenses in this environment! This will be many of the same guys from the TdF by the way, including all three top finishers this year. As a photographer AND cycling fan this is very exciting for me! I was thinking of the 15mm prime as a 2nd lens. From the collection you have for sure the 28-75 is the best choice for the majority of shots. I'm sure this will be an exciting experience. By the way: are you an experienced passenger on a motorbike? This would help a lot!

08-15-2011, 12:20 PM	#10
mattb123 Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Colorado High Country Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,872 Original Poster	Originally posted by volley I was thinking of the 15mm prime as a 2nd lens. From the collection you have for sure the 28-75 is the best choice for the majority of shots. I'm sure this will be an exciting experience. By the way: are you an experienced passenger on a motorbike? This would help a lot! Yes, I'll bring the 15 for when I'm off the bike for sure. I have been a passenger on a motorcycle quite a few times when I was in high school. My brother and his friends were all into street bikes and I would catch rides with them regularly. I don't think I have been on one in the 25 years since, so I might be rusty and then probably sore afterward. Hopefully I'll remember enough to be able to get the shots and not fall off! I'm more of a human-powered cyclist which may also help, but the forces are going to be on a different scale, I'm sure.

08-15-2011, 12:24 PM	#11
mattb123 Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Colorado High Country Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,872 Original Poster	Originally posted by philbaum Matt, An interesting challenge - good luck to you! Some uninformed comments: A. Flash sounds like a really bad idea from a safety standpoint. I wouldn't want to be responsible for temporarily blinding a pro rider as they are going into a high speed corner. Secondly, you'll have enough to do zooming in and out, worrying about flash recharge rates and FEC on the back of a motorcycle sounds like a mess even apart from the safety. B. I think you want a handgrip for your camera so its really "glued" to your hand, Loose hanging straps with a rapidly spinning wheel under your seat sounds like a safety issue. just the handgrip if its good enough. C. 17-70 F4 is what i'm imagining. 28 isn't wide enough i would think for some shots where you might want more of the action. Tell us how its going in the preparation, if you've got time. Best wishes, It's going to be mid-day so fill light will help the shots a lot and the pros I see doing this in the Tour de France use flashes so I don't think the riders will have a problem with it. I was thinking I'd just keep the neck strap around my neck so if I need both hands to hold on I can just let go of the camera and use both hands!

08-15-2011, 01:13 PM	#12
volley Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Springe Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,693	Originally posted by mattb123 Yes, I'll bring the 15 for when I'm off the bike for sure. I have been a passenger on a motorcycle quite a few times when I was in high school. My brother and his friends were all into street bikes and I would catch rides with them regularly. I don't think I have been on one in the 25 years since, so I might be rusty and then probably sore afterward. Hopefully I'll remember enough to be able to get the shots and not fall off! I'm more of a human-powered cyclist which may also help, but the forces are going to be on a different scale, I'm sure. Yes, a passenger can be a challenge for the driver - try to avoid screeming at high speeds

08-15-2011, 02:01 PM	#13
asp1880 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Lyngby, Copenhagen Photos: Albums Posts: 742	That gig sounds like fun. I'm envious. I once saw a motorcycle cameraman using a speedlight with an off camera cord in the left hand, holding it low to light the riders face, while shooting one-handed with the camera in the right hand. That might take some practice to perform safely. Have fun. Did I mention I'm envious? Sincerely, --Anders.

08-15-2011, 03:34 PM	#14
mattb123 Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Colorado High Country Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,872 Original Poster	Originally posted by asp1880 That gig sounds like fun. I'm envious. I once saw a motorcycle cameraman using a speedlight with an off camera cord in the left hand, holding it low to light the riders face, while shooting one-handed with the camera in the right hand. That might take some practice to perform safely. Have fun. Did I mention I'm envious? Sincerely, --Anders. That's a good idea. I have some wireless triggers, but I bet I can't do HSS with one of those. Hmmm. Maybe I can order a cable and get it in time....

08-15-2011, 04:38 PM	#15
newarts Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ames, Iowa, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 2,965	Do I have this straight? You are going to be sitting backwards as a motorcycle passenger moving fast on the periphery of a race and you are going to hold a flash in one hand while you adjust a zoom lens and hold a camera with the other? It would seem that some practice and a lot of duct tape will be helpful. Write a letter to be given to your mother first!