Hyperfocal for dummies...

seymop · 11-28-2007, 08:42 PM

Hey all, I think I get the basic idea of the hyperfocal theory but I'm having some problems understanding some of the key functions that go into calculating the distance. PLEASE HELP because i want my landscape photography to turn out as good as possible.

I have the K100D with the 18-55mm kit lens. Could someone set me up with an example using a mountain range and something closer to compare to? Thank you for your help in advance.

LaRee · 11-28-2007, 10:07 PM

Maybe this link will help you?
Hyperfocal Focusing For Better Landscape Photographs

Lance B · 11-28-2007, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by seymop

Hey all, I think I get the basic idea of the hyperfocal theory but I'm having some problems understanding some of the key functions that go into calculating the distance. PLEASE HELP because i want my landscape photography to turn out as good as possible.

I have the K100D with the 18-55mm kit lens. Could someone set me up with an example using a mountain range and something closer to compare to? Thank you for your help in advance.

Online Depth of Field Calculator

baw · 11-29-2007, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by seymop

Hey all, I think I get the basic idea of the hyperfocal theory but I'm having some problems understanding some of the key functions that go into calculating the distance.

Once you get the hyperfocal theory mastered, have a look at this website.
Has a different view on DOF.

Photo Tramp · 11-29-2007, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by LaRee

Maybe this link will help you?
Hyperfocal Focusing For Better Landscape Photographs

All of these sites are great for the info on hyper-focusing. I think the information hits right on the money, but (and there is always a but) the best way to achieve the the results you want is to practice, practice, practice. Once you are get to know the lens and your camera all will fall into place and it becomes automatic. When taking the shot and using these guides use your DOF imaging on the camera to see exactly what you will have in the end result. To view DOF, On the on-off switch on the camera just slide the switch to on and a little past and hold the switch open . This will allow you to view your shot and see the DOF you will get in the end result threw the viewfinder.
Good luck and have fun learning.

**Lowell Goudge** · 11-29-2007, 04:07 PM

One thing that I did not see in the discussion of hyperfocal length, but which cannot be forgotten, is that there is a subjective factor involved. This is because the hyperfocal distance is really based on acceptable focus not perfect focus.

As you blow up a print, you actually reduce the range of things within the acceptable focus band. the more you enlarge something, the less clear it will look off the focus point.

That is why some practice is needed.

You also need to consider an additional point when you stop a lens down. There is a nice little physical property called defraction, which is a bending of the light as it passes the apature. This is inherent in all lenses, at all apatures, but as you stop the lens down, the ratio of perimiter to area changes, and the impact of defraction increases. Many lenses are their sharpest at F16, after that, even though depth of field increases, the lenses loose sharpness due to defraction.

Again, this will be most noticable at high enlargement ratios

simonkit · 11-29-2007, 04:14 PM

I spent a lot of time with Hyperfocal when I first moved to DSLR & to be quite honest didn't really see any advantage. Having now pretty much abandoned the technique I choose my focus point based upon the object I want sharpest & let the aperture setting do the rest, so far it seems to be working pretty well.

simon

Buddha Jones · 11-29-2007, 04:38 PM

Can that technigue be used in Macro photograpy?

Peter Zack · 11-29-2007, 05:01 PM

I may stand corrected Buddha, but i don't think so. The DOF is so limited and gets smaller as you get closer, that you just have to focus a well as you can on the given subject. Stop the lens down as much as you possibly can as well. But you knew that anyway....

As for the OP's question, I agree with Lowell and Photo tramp. Practice practice practice. Get to know each lens you own and how it will perform.

Buddha Jones · 11-29-2007, 06:48 PM

Darn, I would love to get an extra centimeter or so...

**Canada_Rockies** · 11-29-2007, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by Buddha Jones

Darn, I would love to get an extra centimeter or so...

In the digital world, you need software and multiple exposures at difference focus points, and then there is software out there (some freeware even, I have read) that allows you to merge the shots to create an impossible depth of field.

Of course, in the type of macro work I do, this doesn't work. The darned butterfly just won't stay put for 23 exposures at different focus points.

SpecialK · 11-29-2007, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by seymop

Hey all, I think I get the basic idea of the hyperfocal theory but I'm having some problems understanding some of the key functions that go into calculating the distance. PLEASE HELP because i want my landscape photography to turn out as good as possible.

I have the K100D with the 18-55mm kit lens. Could someone set me up with an example using a mountain range and something closer to compare to? Thank you for your help in advance.

In the old days, most lenses had the f-stops engraved on the top of the lens barrel and could be used as the depth of field limit-indicators.

Setting the focus ring so that infinity was just inside the mark allowed it to have the deepest depth for that f-stop. Or choosing other distances showed the near and far limits of aceptable focus (according to the manufacturer).

Looking at my collection, only 1 of 5 lenses has that feature.

PDL · 11-29-2007, 11:16 PM

How about this - from The Luminous Landscape:
Quote Definition: "The closest point of focus at a given aperture, at which infinity falls within the Depth of Field."

From the link
DOF

The article is a very good read on the basics of DOF (where hyperfocal distance comes from anyway)

As SpecialK stated - so called "modern" lenses do not have DOF scales - one of the most stupid things lens manufactures have done. With AF being the rage - "modern" photographers do not grasp the idea of selecting what is in focus - they let the lameoid camera determine what is the point of interest in the image.

edit:1
Try out Hyperfocal Distance and Depth of Field Calculator - DOFMaster - this tool will let you "play" and after reading about DOF and hyperfocal distance calculations --- you can create what Pentax and other lens manufactures have removed --- a real DOF scale so you can set it manually - just like the good old days. But if you have AF coupled to the shutter button - all bets are off - you are screwed.
edit: 2
Try this site too - the tutorials here are something you just have to go through - you will not be disappointed.
Understanding Depth of Field in Photography
edit: 3
Just go here - read - learn - it is fun
Depth of field and diffraction

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

OniFactor · 11-29-2007, 11:52 PM

so.. how do you do hyperfocal focusing...without the DOF scale on the camera? just wondering if it's possible with my new k110d with 18-55..

PDL · 11-30-2007, 12:55 AM

To make your own DOF scales - go here:
Hyperfocal Distance and Depth of Field Calculator - DOFMaster
Make your own scales and note where the primary focus indicator falls ln the scale and adjust accordingly. The site even demonstrates how to put multiple focal lengths on a scale.

Yes it takes time - but if you want to have the camera make all the decisions - put it in P or green mode and let it fly.

No one said this was going to be easy.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

11-28-2007, 08:42 PM	#1
seymop Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: harrisville, ny Photos: Gallery Posts: 40	Hyperfocal for dummies... Hey all, I think I get the basic idea of the hyperfocal theory but I'm having some problems understanding some of the key functions that go into calculating the distance. PLEASE HELP because i want my landscape photography to turn out as good as possible. I have the K100D with the 18-55mm kit lens. Could someone set me up with an example using a mountain range and something closer to compare to? Thank you for your help in advance.

11-28-2007, 10:12 PM	#3
Lance B Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 593	Try this website Originally posted by seymop Hey all, I think I get the basic idea of the hyperfocal theory but I'm having some problems understanding some of the key functions that go into calculating the distance. PLEASE HELP because i want my landscape photography to turn out as good as possible. I have the K100D with the 18-55mm kit lens. Could someone set me up with an example using a mountain range and something closer to compare to? Thank you for your help in advance. Online Depth of Field Calculator

11-29-2007, 02:01 AM	#4
baw Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Neterlands Posts: 189	DOF / Hyperfocal theory Originally posted by seymop Hey all, I think I get the basic idea of the hyperfocal theory but I'm having some problems understanding some of the key functions that go into calculating the distance. Once you get the hyperfocal theory mastered, have a look at this website. Has a different view on DOF.

11-29-2007, 11:16 PM	#13
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,127	How about this - from The Luminous Landscape: Quote Definition: "The closest point of focus at a given aperture, at which infinity falls within the Depth of Field." From the link DOF The article is a very good read on the basics of DOF (where hyperfocal distance comes from anyway) As SpecialK stated - so called "modern" lenses do not have DOF scales - one of the most stupid things lens manufactures have done. With AF being the rage - "modern" photographers do not grasp the idea of selecting what is in focus - they let the lameoid camera determine what is the point of interest in the image. edit:1 Try out Hyperfocal Distance and Depth of Field Calculator - DOFMaster - this tool will let you "play" and after reading about DOF and hyperfocal distance calculations --- you can create what Pentax and other lens manufactures have removed --- a real DOF scale so you can set it manually - just like the good old days. But if you have AF coupled to the shutter button - all bets are off - you are screwed. edit: 2 Try this site too - the tutorials here are something you just have to go through - you will not be disappointed. Understanding Depth of Field in Photography edit: 3 Just go here - read - learn - it is fun Depth of field and diffraction The Elitist - formerly known as PDL Last edited by PDL; 11-29-2007 at 11:40 PM. Reason: got out my soap box

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11-28-2007, 10:07 PM	#2
LaRee Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: San Diego Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,225	Maybe this link will help you? Hyperfocal Focusing For Better Landscape Photographs

11-29-2007, 03:33 AM	#5
Photo Tramp Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lancaster, PA. Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,041	Originally posted by LaRee Maybe this link will help you? Hyperfocal Focusing For Better Landscape Photographs All of these sites are great for the info on hyper-focusing. I think the information hits right on the money, but (and there is always a but) the best way to achieve the the results you want is to practice, practice, practice. Once you are get to know the lens and your camera all will fall into place and it becomes automatic. When taking the shot and using these guides use your DOF imaging on the camera to see exactly what you will have in the end result. To view DOF, On the on-off switch on the camera just slide the switch to on and a little past and hold the switch open . This will allow you to view your shot and see the DOF you will get in the end result threw the viewfinder. Good luck and have fun learning.

11-29-2007, 04:07 PM	#6
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	One thing that I did not see in the discussion of hyperfocal length, but which cannot be forgotten, is that there is a subjective factor involved. This is because the hyperfocal distance is really based on acceptable focus not perfect focus. As you blow up a print, you actually reduce the range of things within the acceptable focus band. the more you enlarge something, the less clear it will look off the focus point. That is why some practice is needed. You also need to consider an additional point when you stop a lens down. There is a nice little physical property called defraction, which is a bending of the light as it passes the apature. This is inherent in all lenses, at all apatures, but as you stop the lens down, the ratio of perimiter to area changes, and the impact of defraction increases. Many lenses are their sharpest at F16, after that, even though depth of field increases, the lenses loose sharpness due to defraction. Again, this will be most noticable at high enlargement ratios

11-29-2007, 04:14 PM	#7
simonkit Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: North Wales, UK Posts: 645	I spent a lot of time with Hyperfocal when I first moved to DSLR & to be quite honest didn't really see any advantage. Having now pretty much abandoned the technique I choose my focus point based upon the object I want sharpest & let the aperture setting do the rest, so far it seems to be working pretty well. simon

11-29-2007, 04:38 PM	#8
Buddha Jones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,587	Can that technigue be used in Macro photograpy?

11-29-2007, 05:01 PM	#9
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	I may stand corrected Buddha, but i don't think so. The DOF is so limited and gets smaller as you get closer, that you just have to focus a well as you can on the given subject. Stop the lens down as much as you possibly can as well. But you knew that anyway.... As for the OP's question, I agree with Lowell and Photo tramp. Practice practice practice. Get to know each lens you own and how it will perform.

11-29-2007, 06:48 PM	#10
Buddha Jones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,587	Darn, I would love to get an extra centimeter or so...

11-29-2007, 09:23 PM	#11
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	Originally posted by Buddha Jones Darn, I would love to get an extra centimeter or so... In the digital world, you need software and multiple exposures at difference focus points, and then there is software out there (some freeware even, I have read) that allows you to merge the shots to create an impossible depth of field. Of course, in the type of macro work I do, this doesn't work. The darned butterfly just won't stay put for 23 exposures at different focus points.

11-29-2007, 10:10 PM	#12
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,480	Originally posted by seymop Hey all, I think I get the basic idea of the hyperfocal theory but I'm having some problems understanding some of the key functions that go into calculating the distance. PLEASE HELP because i want my landscape photography to turn out as good as possible. I have the K100D with the 18-55mm kit lens. Could someone set me up with an example using a mountain range and something closer to compare to? Thank you for your help in advance. In the old days, most lenses had the f-stops engraved on the top of the lens barrel and could be used as the depth of field limit-indicators. Setting the focus ring so that infinity was just inside the mark allowed it to have the deepest depth for that f-stop. Or choosing other distances showed the near and far limits of aceptable focus (according to the manufacturer). Looking at my collection, only 1 of 5 lenses has that feature.

11-29-2007, 11:52 PM	#14
OniFactor Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Binghamton, NY, USA Posts: 643	so.. how do you do hyperfocal focusing...without the DOF scale on the camera? just wondering if it's possible with my new k110d with 18-55..

11-30-2007, 12:55 AM	#15
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,127	To make your own DOF scales - go here: Hyperfocal Distance and Depth of Field Calculator - DOFMaster Make your own scales and note where the primary focus indicator falls ln the scale and adjust accordingly. The site even demonstrates how to put multiple focal lengths on a scale. Yes it takes time - but if you want to have the camera make all the decisions - put it in P or green mode and let it fly. No one said this was going to be easy. The Elitist - formerly known as PDL