shooting in a room with black ceilings

**7samurai** · 11-26-2011, 02:30 PM

The karate studio where I ususally shoot recently painted their ceiling black.

The wall are 60% white (upper half) and 40 % black with red trim (lower half). I'm having some real difficulties getting enough light in the room. Was previously using a flash with a diffuser and boucing off the white ceiling.

Any ideas on how to over come the enviornment?

I can shoot head-on, but it makes the image alittle to harse for me and the light drops off real fast. I feel like I'm shooting into a black hole sucking the photons.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

7samurai

Adam · 11-26-2011, 02:51 PM

If there's less light around, maybe try a more powerful flash? I would do some trial and error until you find just the right amount of light!

JohnBecker · 11-26-2011, 02:55 PM

Assuming you're working with a single on-camera flash, the only thing I can think of involves going to Wal-Mart and buying one or more king size white sheets and a package of thumbtacks. (Assuming you're not going to get karate chopped for putting a bunch of little holes in their ceiling.) Or you could just tape up white paper. And you won't want to use a Sto-fen or a Fong thing, maybe just a "scoop" kind of reflector that would allow most of the light from the flash go straight to the ceiling and also reflect some of it to the subject. Just thoughts off the top of my head. Good luck.

aleonx3 · 11-26-2011, 04:13 PM

I would try to use the wall (at least the white part) whatever you can... obviously, you have to have hot-shoe flash with swivel head like the AF540. I would also take RAW just so you can fix the white balance. Also, as others suggested, I would use a diffuser to soften the light reflections.

Wheatfield · 11-26-2011, 04:43 PM

Put a bounce card on the flash. You might still have exposure problems because the room is no longer average, but the light will be softer.
If necessary, you can shoot manual flash with the power throttled back to give the aperture you want at a distance that is comfortable to shoot from.

**maxfield_photo** · 11-26-2011, 06:02 PM

Since you don't mention a studio strobe specifically, I'm assuming you are using a speedlight. Check out the Lumiquest LTP Softbox or the Big Bounce, they will diffuse the light considerably. Of course you will lose a stop or two, so I hope you have enough power from your flashgun. The Big Bounce can be used on the hotshoe, but the LTP softbox will require you to move your flash off camera.

If you still have some power left, try moving the flash further away from your subject. "What did he just say?!?" That's right, due to the inverse square law you are getting more light falloff because of your close proximity to your subject.

If your flash is 5 feet in front your subject, and the wall is another 15 feet behind, you are going to lose 3 stops or 87% of your light by the time it reaches the wall (distance to background divided by distance to subject). But if your subject stays put, and you back the flash up 5 feet, so that it is now 10 feet from him, you will only lose a stop and a half by the time it reaches the wall. Of course that only works if you still have enough power to light your subject. Another option would be to get a second flash to light the background, and since that one would be off camera, you can place it just out of frame and bounce it into an umbrella or an inexpensive piece of white foam core.

joe.penn · 11-26-2011, 06:40 PM

If you can garner some floor space, you can get yourself a sheet of white poster board and lay it on the floor, move your flash off camera and bounce at a 90 off of that...

**7samurai** · 11-26-2011, 07:20 PM

Thank you for all your replies. I think I should clarify that I'm not doing an event. I'm currently shooting only candid photos and promotion pictures at the studio. So my setup is very mobile at the moment. Unfortunately, I can't put up a sheet or cover the ceiling.

I'm currently using a Sigma Flash (530 Super) and a Spectralight diffuser. This setup was perfect before the color change. What's killing me is any bounce toward the ceiling is totally absorbed by the deep black color.

I like maxfield's idea of adding another flash. Unfortunately, I can't stay in one place long and any setup is prone to get knocked over by the paticipants.

Do they make on-camera accessories that I can attach a second flash? or maybe a third?

Would an led light panel be better? I've seen those recently, but not sure if the light output is sufficient.

Any comments greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

7samurai

joe.penn · 11-26-2011, 07:23 PM

Softbox it with a 24x24 on a flash stand - get a wireless trigger set to trigger the flash...

**DAZ** · 11-26-2011, 08:26 PM

Depending on how big the room you are in you could try a few things. I would use my flashes units around the room pointed at the walls and trigger them with a radio remote. You could do something like this with multiple small cheep optical slave units pointed at the walls. They don't have to be extremely powerful as all you are using them for is to bring up the room so it is not so dark. They make some that will fit in a light socket and can look like a lamp. They also make some that are battery powered that you can hide behind things. You can get these at B&H $20-40 ea. These would be triggered by the flash on your camera. This flash would be most of your additional light. If you wanted the light to look very soft you could use a cheep ring flash diffuser like from DIY (looks kind of funky but it works well) but this would need a short cable to trigger the flash but you can get that cheep if you do all manual. I assume there is going to be some light in the room so you don't have to light the whole room with flash you can drag your shutter some and up the ISO a little. Just balance it all together. Adding a little good light can make it look a lot better then just using bad light and turning up the ISO.

DAZ

**maxfield_photo** · 11-26-2011, 08:33 PM

I've seen photographers hold a California Sunbounce in one hand with a speedlight mounted to it, while operating their camera with the other hand, like so Kind of awkward for one person, but if you had an assistant... Or maybe if you had a Lastolite TriGrip, and put your flash on the hotshoe, but point it backwards and up at a 45° angle, and hold the trigrip just behind your head. You'll definitely get some great smiles from your subjects.

Have a look around Welcome to Strobox - Create, Share, Learn for some ideas. Click on some of the pictures that are similar to what you're trying to create, and you can see a diagram for the lighting setup used.

**7samurai** · 11-28-2011, 07:44 PM

Thank you all for the replies. I really appreciate your input.
Now off to the karate studio to spar with the black ceiling.

11-26-2011, 02:30 PM	#1
7samurai Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 474	shooting in a room with black ceilings The karate studio where I ususally shoot recently painted their ceiling black. The wall are 60% white (upper half) and 40 % black with red trim (lower half). I'm having some real difficulties getting enough light in the room. Was previously using a flash with a diffuser and boucing off the white ceiling. Any ideas on how to over come the enviornment? I can shoot head-on, but it makes the image alittle to harse for me and the light drops off real fast. I feel like I'm shooting into a black hole sucking the photons. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 7samurai

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11-26-2011, 02:51 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	If there's less light around, maybe try a more powerful flash? I would do some trial and error until you find just the right amount of light!

11-26-2011, 02:55 PM	#3
JohnBecker Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 46	Assuming you're working with a single on-camera flash, the only thing I can think of involves going to Wal-Mart and buying one or more king size white sheets and a package of thumbtacks. (Assuming you're not going to get karate chopped for putting a bunch of little holes in their ceiling.) Or you could just tape up white paper. And you won't want to use a Sto-fen or a Fong thing, maybe just a "scoop" kind of reflector that would allow most of the light from the flash go straight to the ceiling and also reflect some of it to the subject. Just thoughts off the top of my head. Good luck.

11-26-2011, 04:13 PM	#4
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	I would try to use the wall (at least the white part) whatever you can... obviously, you have to have hot-shoe flash with swivel head like the AF540. I would also take RAW just so you can fix the white balance. Also, as others suggested, I would use a diffuser to soften the light reflections.

11-26-2011, 04:43 PM	#5
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Put a bounce card on the flash. You might still have exposure problems because the room is no longer average, but the light will be softer. If necessary, you can shoot manual flash with the power throttled back to give the aperture you want at a distance that is comfortable to shoot from.

11-26-2011, 06:02 PM	#6
maxfield_photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,216	Since you don't mention a studio strobe specifically, I'm assuming you are using a speedlight. Check out the Lumiquest LTP Softbox or the Big Bounce, they will diffuse the light considerably. Of course you will lose a stop or two, so I hope you have enough power from your flashgun. The Big Bounce can be used on the hotshoe, but the LTP softbox will require you to move your flash off camera. If you still have some power left, try moving the flash further away from your subject. "What did he just say?!?" That's right, due to the inverse square law you are getting more light falloff because of your close proximity to your subject. If your flash is 5 feet in front your subject, and the wall is another 15 feet behind, you are going to lose 3 stops or 87% of your light by the time it reaches the wall (distance to background divided by distance to subject). But if your subject stays put, and you back the flash up 5 feet, so that it is now 10 feet from him, you will only lose a stop and a half by the time it reaches the wall. Of course that only works if you still have enough power to light your subject. Another option would be to get a second flash to light the background, and since that one would be off camera, you can place it just out of frame and bounce it into an umbrella or an inexpensive piece of white foam core.

11-26-2011, 06:40 PM	#7
joe.penn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Maryland (Right Outside Washington DC) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,902	If you can garner some floor space, you can get yourself a sheet of white poster board and lay it on the floor, move your flash off camera and bounce at a 90 off of that...

11-26-2011, 07:20 PM	#8
7samurai Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 474 Original Poster	Thank you for all your replies. I think I should clarify that I'm not doing an event. I'm currently shooting only candid photos and promotion pictures at the studio. So my setup is very mobile at the moment. Unfortunately, I can't put up a sheet or cover the ceiling. I'm currently using a Sigma Flash (530 Super) and a Spectralight diffuser. This setup was perfect before the color change. What's killing me is any bounce toward the ceiling is totally absorbed by the deep black color. I like maxfield's idea of adding another flash. Unfortunately, I can't stay in one place long and any setup is prone to get knocked over by the paticipants. Do they make on-camera accessories that I can attach a second flash? or maybe a third? Would an led light panel be better? I've seen those recently, but not sure if the light output is sufficient. Any comments greatly appreciated. Sincerely, 7samurai

11-26-2011, 07:23 PM	#9
joe.penn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Maryland (Right Outside Washington DC) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,902	Softbox it with a 24x24 on a flash stand - get a wireless trigger set to trigger the flash...

11-26-2011, 08:26 PM	#10
DAZ Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Everett, WA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 744	Depending on how big the room you are in you could try a few things. I would use my flashes units around the room pointed at the walls and trigger them with a radio remote. You could do something like this with multiple small cheep optical slave units pointed at the walls. They don't have to be extremely powerful as all you are using them for is to bring up the room so it is not so dark. They make some that will fit in a light socket and can look like a lamp. They also make some that are battery powered that you can hide behind things. You can get these at B&H $20-40 ea. These would be triggered by the flash on your camera. This flash would be most of your additional light. If you wanted the light to look very soft you could use a cheep ring flash diffuser like from DIY (looks kind of funky but it works well) but this would need a short cable to trigger the flash but you can get that cheep if you do all manual. I assume there is going to be some light in the room so you don't have to light the whole room with flash you can drag your shutter some and up the ISO a little. Just balance it all together. Adding a little good light can make it look a lot better then just using bad light and turning up the ISO. DAZ

11-26-2011, 08:33 PM	#11
maxfield_photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,216	I've seen photographers hold a California Sunbounce in one hand with a speedlight mounted to it, while operating their camera with the other hand, like so Kind of awkward for one person, but if you had an assistant... Or maybe if you had a Lastolite TriGrip, and put your flash on the hotshoe, but point it backwards and up at a 45° angle, and hold the trigrip just behind your head. You'll definitely get some great smiles from your subjects. Have a look around Welcome to Strobox - Create, Share, Learn for some ideas. Click on some of the pictures that are similar to what you're trying to create, and you can see a diagram for the lighting setup used.

11-28-2011, 07:44 PM	#12
7samurai Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 474 Original Poster	Thank you all for the replies. I really appreciate your input. Now off to the karate studio to spar with the black ceiling.