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12-03-2011, 06:05 AM - 1 Like   #1
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Extreme Macro 12:1 Photo Demo with DAL 18-55, M135mm f3.5, M50mm f1.4

Feel bored this afternoon, and explore all the combination with possibility and Result demo in photo for the Magnification rate.

actual stuff used in this test,

1. cheapest Pentax AF lens: DAL18-55mm f3.5-5.6
2. cheapest Pentax 135mm lens: M 135mm f3.5
3. any 50mm will do, I use M 50mm f1.4
4. cheap Extension tube 10mm, 20mm, 30mm
5. cheap PK-52mm reverse mount
6. cheap 52-49mm male-to-male thread ring, (optional 49-52 step-up ring)



Test 1: "Extension Tube is your best friend for cheap macro, make every lens a macro lens"

50mm f1.4 with 60mm Extension tube on Pentax DSLR K-x; (ant is 3mm)


actual rule image for you calculation, around 1:1 range, Object Distance around 10cm, good enough distant


135mm f3.5 with 60mm Extension tube on Pentax DSLR K-x; Object Distance around 80cm, quite a distance


Vivitar 19-35mm at 28mm with 35mm extension tube, object distance around 5mm, too close, almost touch the glass, beyong 28mm, touch glass already, cant focus


Vivitar 19-35mm at 35mm with 35mm extension tube, object distance around 5mm, too close,almost touch glass


Conclusion:
- extension tube reduce minimum focus distance to gain magnification, so short lens are likely easy to cut off the whole distance, make it too close to object.


12-03-2011, 07:41 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by sunnycamera Quote
1. cheapest Pentax AF lens: DAL18-55mm f3.5-5.6
2. cheapest Pentax 135mm lens: M 135mm f3.5
3. any 50mm will do, I use M 50mm f1.4
4. cheap Extension tube 10mm, 20mm, 30mm
5. cheap PK-52mm reverse mount
6. cheap 52-49mm male-to-male thread ring, (optional 49-52 step-up ring)
None of this is quite enough to reach 12x magnification. You could achieve 12x by putting the 18-55 on 200mm of extension (tubes and/or bellows) but you'd likely not care for the results. Another way would be to reverse the 18-55 on a 200mm lens, using a little plastic tube on the 18-55's aperture flag to hold it open.

QuoteQuote:
Test 1: "Extension Tube is your best friend for cheap macro, make every lens a macro lens"
Extension allows for close focus, but macro (and enlarger) lenses also have edge-to-edge flatfield sharpness, as do reversed lenses. A standard lens on extension is great as long as the image edges aren't critical.

QuoteQuote:
Conclusion:
- extension tube reduce minimum focus distance to gain magnification, so short lens are likely easy to cut off the whole distance, make it too close to object.
Any short or reversed lens has a very close working distance. That's why so many macro shooters in non-studio conditions (ie, in the field) use 90mm or 105mm or 150mm or even 200mm macro lenses. Alas, longer lenses need LOTS of extension for greater magnification. Your M135 would need to be on 1125mm extension to reach 12x. Ay yi yi!

I go into some of this here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-lens-articles/152336-cheap-macro-b...lose-work.html. Cheers!
12-05-2011, 09:05 AM   #3
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sorry, I am still posting, not finish yet, as I am a new member, my post not coming out immediately, now I am posting the another half.

Test 2: Now, the revere mouting method,

Here is the DAL 18-55 kit lens revere mounted on the camera body,

at 55mm end reversed, about 1:1 size,



at 18mm end reveresed, now quite big macro already, since the ant just 3mm, no crop here



Now the ruler shot of 18mm end reveresed mounted on camera body with wireless flash.

that is 3.1 mm in witdh on the 24mm crop senor, roughly about 7:1 macro now


Conclusion:

reversed mount a wide angle lens will give a very good magnification, at least even for the kit lens, the sharpness is still quite good with good lighting.

and another interesting thing I found even at the 7:1 macro ration, the lens back end still can be about 4 cm away from subject, which is still quite good for working with tiny bugs,

Last edited by sunnycamera; 12-05-2011 at 09:20 AM.
12-05-2011, 09:10 AM   #4
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Test 3: The double combo. Reversed mount + Extension Tube

50mm prime normal mounted on a 60mm extension tube:

roughly 1:1,


50mm prime reversed mounted on a 60mm extension tube:

about 2:1 now, seems lens reversed give better magnification than normal mount.




Conclusion:

reversed mount will give you extra magnification,

more a experiment like approach than a math approach.

12-05-2011, 09:16 AM - 1 Like   #5
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Test 4: Double reversed lens combo + extension tube (all the methods I know used)

Setup: DAL18-55 revesed mounted on M 135 mm f3.5 and then onto 60mm extension tube,

to help the extreme dark viewfinder to focus, I use a light to shine through it, cast a light spot shape to move in and back to determine in-focus distance.





DAL 18-55 tune at 55mm end



DAL 18-55 tune at 18mm end

2mm shown up on 24mm width DSLR sensor, so 24:2 = 12:1 super macro now, (sorry for the long thread to get this part)



Conclusion:

Revsered mounted wide angle lens works like a macro adapter lens (like Ranyox 250), give good working distance and still produce big macro result.

Cheers. thanks for viewing.
12-05-2011, 11:03 AM   #6
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Oh wow. I read your first post and was like ".........."

That last image is something else though. If you still have that setup ready to go, think you could snag a shot of something common like a penny or other coin?
12-05-2011, 01:55 PM   #7
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Nice. Thanks for sharing

12-08-2011, 07:57 AM   #8
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yeah, the setup is more an experiment, practically it won't work so well, as the view finder is so dark, like switching off lights in evening in your bedroom.

I have a Vivitar 90mm f2.8 macro, good for running out and chasing for ant,

My shot of Singapore crazy ant: with Pentax Kx on a cloudy day.


The Macro lens + extension tube + DCR-250 macro filter combo is more practical to go, but after I got the DCR-250 macro filter, I will try. My macro wiki page: artwiki:photowiki:macrophoto [ShiningWiki]

but I am impressed when I saw some one use M 28mm f2.8 revsered mount on 60 extension tube for beautiful macro shots.
this video inspires me to do this test:
12-08-2011, 11:50 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by sunnycamera Quote
Conclusion:

reversed mount a wide angle lens will give a very good magnification, at least even for the kit lens, the sharpness is still quite good with good lighting.

and another interesting thing I found even at the 7:1 macro ration, the lens back end still can be about 4 cm away from subject, which is still quite good for working with tiny bugs,
Any reversed lens will (or should!) have edge-to-edge flatfield sharpness. That's because un-reversed it MUST be able to deliver a sharp image to a flat frame (film or digital) or else it's junk. And any reversed lens has a working distance (WD) equal to that lens' register. So a non-reversed 20mm M42 or PK lens on extension has a WD that may put the subject up against the glass, while reversed the WD is the ~45.5mm register, much more convenient.

QuoteOriginally posted by sunnycamera Quote
Conclusion:

reversed mount will give you extra magnification,
Reversal forces a close working distance, but reversal doesn't magnify. Extension magnifies. If I reverse a lens with a deep front inset, that inset acts as extension, and it magnifies more than another lens of the same focal length but a shallower inset.

QuoteOriginally posted by sunnycamera Quote
Conclusion:

Revsered mounted wide angle lens works like a macro adapter lens (like Ranyox 250), give good working distance and still produce big macro result.
The Raynox adapters are simple teles (long lenses really). DCR-150 (4.8 dioptres) = 1000/4.8 = ~208mm; DCR-250 (8dpt) = 1000/8 = 125mm. Their working distances are about the same as their focal lengths. Yes, you get big macro results with a short lens reverse-stacked on a longer lens. Reverse a 28mm on a 135mm and magnification is 135/28 = 4.8:1 or almost 5x, not bad!

Nice shooting, good results -- but the results are for different reasons than you thought. Cheers!
12-08-2011, 09:57 PM   #10
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thanks for the info, I have being digging the macro magnification formula for quite a bit time, I have not found any equation about reversed method,

generally I only found the extension equation and close-up filter equation.
12-09-2011, 01:49 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by sunnycamera Quote
thanks for the info, I have being digging the macro magnification formula for quite a bit time, I have not found any equation about reversed method,

generally I only found the extension equation and close-up filter equation.
Y'know, that is a very good point. I can't find reversal formulae either. So it's time for a test. I'll use a FF camera because it's handy and has a bright VF. I'll put a ruler down under a light. I'll reverse a 50mm lens, first by itself, then with measured increments of extension. Let's see what happens.

Lens: a SuperTak 50/1.4 at infinity focus.
Adapter: 49mm-PK mount-reversal ring.

With adapter on lens, it's about 1cm from front objective to mount base, so that's the minimum extension. What I see on the ruler: about 40mm. The FF frame is 36mm wide, for ~0.9x magnification.
Now I put it on a bellows about 4cm thick for a total of 5cm extension. What I see on the ruler is about 20mm, so magnification is ~1.8x.
Now I rack-out the bellows for a total of 10cm extension. What I see on the ruler is about 13mm, for ~2.7x magnification.
Those numbers follow a pattern -- exactly the pattern of a non-reversed lens at similar extensions.

CONCLUSION: A 50mm lens reversed is still a 50mm lens. The magnification formula works no matter which way the lens faces: M= (TE-FL)/FL where TE is Total Extension (from the lens' optical center) and FL is Focal Length.
12-16-2011, 10:05 AM   #12
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Very nice pics! I love playing with macro too. It just very hard to get hte focus right in low light conditions. Incredibly shallow DOF.

Now I'll give you some sugar:
Attached Images
 
11-12-2013, 03:32 PM   #13
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Fyi, I've just done a site on this very topic, of extreme macro, at Extreme Macro Photography - ( extreme-macro.co.uk ) comments would be most welcome
11-12-2013, 08:46 PM   #14
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For extreme macro, stacking is necessary as dof is too thin. Anything more than 1:1 macro, in fact stacking is preferred as the OOF area is not pleasing when the image is blown up, hence stacking is preferred.

For stacking to be possible, the subject needs to be still, and hence insects need to be frozen for the multiple shots to be taken.


marcus
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