Dragging the Shutter

HGMonaro · 01-08-2008, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by HGMonaro

I'm attaching a pic of my sons taken the other night using two bounced flashes... camera at f8, right flashgun (old Agfatronic) at f5.6 and roughly 45degree from centre, left flashgun (540) at f8 and 45degrees from centre. Cropped (as my backdrop, an old slide projection screen dosen't cover the frame!) and slight unsharp mask.

Better quote myself here as I realised I quoted my B&W 'setup'. The above pic was the 540 on camera hotshoe bounced and the Agfatronic from the right at 45degees. This was because I can't make my 540 act as the 'Master'. Read the camera instructions a few times but can't find the flash booklet to see there's a clue in there. Any hints appreciated

Nige.

nosnoop · 01-08-2008, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by HGMonaro

Better quote myself here as I realised I quoted my B&W 'setup'. The above pic was the 540 on camera hotshoe bounced and the Agfatronic from the right at 45degees. This was because I can't make my 540 act as the 'Master'. Read the camera instructions a few times but can't find the flash booklet to see there's a clue in there. Any hints appreciated

From the camera point of view, Master flash is the flash on the camera - either the built-in pop up flash or an external flash attached to the camera (directly on the hotshoe or by cable); and any flash NOT attached to the camera is a slave flash.

So if you use your 540FGZ wirelessly off the camera, then no, you cannot "make" it to be the master. The only way to use it off the camera and as a master is to use a 5P cable connection. I presume you used your 540FGZ in "A" mode to trigger the Agfatronic flash, right? That, in fact is the simplest way. If you want to use P-TTL triggered by pop-up flash, then you need a digital optical slave for the Agfatronic to ignore the pre-flash.

HGMonaro · 01-08-2008, 05:43 PM

hmm... I used an optical slave to fire the Agfatronic (it's a std thyristor style flash). For my B&W (using a Mamiya 645) I trigger the Agfa (it's the main light in my 'setup') using a PC cord and the other flash (usually some no-name thing but I couldn't find it so grabbed the 540) sits on the optical slave. I think I had the 540 in A mode on the desired aperture. When my wife wanted a colour pic of our boys, I put the slave on the Agfatronic and wanted the camera on-board to fire the 540, but couldn't get that to happen which is why I stuck it on the hotshoe.

So, without this 5P cable, can you not have the 540 fire wirelessly with no visual impact from the on-board flash?

Alternatively, I could use a "hotshoe to PC" connector I have to fire the Agfatronic and the slave to fire the 540 similar to how I use the Mamiya.

Cheers, Nige

nosnoop · 01-09-2008, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by HGMonaro

So, without this 5P cable, can you not have the 540 fire wirelessly with no visual impact from the on-board flash?

Yes, you can do that. Set the pop-up flash to operate in "Controller mode" instead of "Master mode" (custom menu), and the 540FGZ is still considered a "Slave" (even when it provides the only source of illumination).

And in this situation, you would be using P-TTL with pre-flash. You get very convenient TTL metering. But your standard optical slave for your Agfatronic would not work properly.

Quote:

Alternatively, I could use a "hotshoe to PC" connector I have to fire the Agfatronic and the slave to fire the 540 similar to how I use the Mamiya.

Yes, you can also do that, but you will lose the P-TTL metering.

HGMonaro · 01-09-2008, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by nosnoop

Yes, you can do that. Set the pop-up flash to operate in "Controller mode" instead of "Master mode" (custom menu), and the 540FGZ is still considered a "Slave" (even when it provides the only source of illumination).

Got it... I was setting the 540 to 'master'... thanks!

Cheers, Nige

rfortson · 01-09-2008, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by travis_cooper

Sorry, but I don't have a SLOW flash setting. As I have said many times before I am using the K110D, so I don't have all the fancy options in the K10D.

See page 152 in your K110D manual. There's a slow speed sync setting that (I believe) allows you to do exactly what you're asking. I'm assuming this will also control the hot shoe flash.

jshurak · 01-14-2008, 11:40 AM

Ok, so this thread hasn't been updated a while. But these three links to the balancing sections on the strobist blog. pretty good info...

Balancing Twilight

Balance Sun/Crosslight

And Finally Balancing Indoor Flash/Ambient

travis_cooper · 01-14-2008, 11:53 AM

Thanks, I'll check them out.

Zilla · 04-04-2008, 03:24 PM

planet neil - tangents flash photography techniques

Article has a good section on "dragging the shutter"

MJB DIGITAL · 04-04-2008, 04:42 PM

you can get that 540 off of the camera and hand hold it out to the side, no prob

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01-08-2008, 02:23 PM	#31
HGMonaro Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melb. Aust Posts: 840	Originally posted by HGMonaro I'm attaching a pic of my sons taken the other night using two bounced flashes... camera at f8, right flashgun (old Agfatronic) at f5.6 and roughly 45degree from centre, left flashgun (540) at f8 and 45degrees from centre. Cropped (as my backdrop, an old slide projection screen dosen't cover the frame!) and slight unsharp mask. Better quote myself here as I realised I quoted my B&W 'setup'. The above pic was the 540 on camera hotshoe bounced and the Agfatronic from the right at 45degees. This was because I can't make my 540 act as the 'Master'. Read the camera instructions a few times but can't find the flash booklet to see there's a clue in there. Any hints appreciated Nige.

01-08-2008, 03:52 PM	#32
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by HGMonaro Better quote myself here as I realised I quoted my B&W 'setup'. The above pic was the 540 on camera hotshoe bounced and the Agfatronic from the right at 45degees. This was because I can't make my 540 act as the 'Master'. Read the camera instructions a few times but can't find the flash booklet to see there's a clue in there. Any hints appreciated From the camera point of view, Master flash is the flash on the camera - either the built-in pop up flash or an external flash attached to the camera (directly on the hotshoe or by cable); and any flash NOT attached to the camera is a slave flash. So if you use your 540FGZ wirelessly off the camera, then no, you cannot "make" it to be the master. The only way to use it off the camera and as a master is to use a 5P cable connection. I presume you used your 540FGZ in "A" mode to trigger the Agfatronic flash, right? That, in fact is the simplest way. If you want to use P-TTL triggered by pop-up flash, then you need a digital optical slave for the Agfatronic to ignore the pre-flash.

01-08-2008, 05:43 PM	#33
HGMonaro Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melb. Aust Posts: 840	hmm... I used an optical slave to fire the Agfatronic (it's a std thyristor style flash). For my B&W (using a Mamiya 645) I trigger the Agfa (it's the main light in my 'setup') using a PC cord and the other flash (usually some no-name thing but I couldn't find it so grabbed the 540) sits on the optical slave. I think I had the 540 in A mode on the desired aperture. When my wife wanted a colour pic of our boys, I put the slave on the Agfatronic and wanted the camera on-board to fire the 540, but couldn't get that to happen which is why I stuck it on the hotshoe. So, without this 5P cable, can you not have the 540 fire wirelessly with no visual impact from the on-board flash? Alternatively, I could use a "hotshoe to PC" connector I have to fire the Agfatronic and the slave to fire the 540 similar to how I use the Mamiya. Cheers, Nige

01-09-2008, 12:01 AM	#34
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by HGMonaro So, without this 5P cable, can you not have the 540 fire wirelessly with no visual impact from the on-board flash? Yes, you can do that. Set the pop-up flash to operate in "Controller mode" instead of "Master mode" (custom menu), and the 540FGZ is still considered a "Slave" (even when it provides the only source of illumination). And in this situation, you would be using P-TTL with pre-flash. You get very convenient TTL metering. But your standard optical slave for your Agfatronic would not work properly. Quote: Alternatively, I could use a "hotshoe to PC" connector I have to fire the Agfatronic and the slave to fire the 540 similar to how I use the Mamiya. Yes, you can also do that, but you will lose the P-TTL metering.

01-09-2008, 05:50 AM	#35
HGMonaro Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melb. Aust Posts: 840	Originally posted by nosnoop Yes, you can do that. Set the pop-up flash to operate in "Controller mode" instead of "Master mode" (custom menu), and the 540FGZ is still considered a "Slave" (even when it provides the only source of illumination). Got it... I was setting the 540 to 'master'... thanks! Cheers, Nige

01-09-2008, 10:14 AM	#36
rfortson Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Houston TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,129	Originally posted by travis_cooper Sorry, but I don't have a SLOW flash setting. As I have said many times before I am using the K110D, so I don't have all the fancy options in the K10D. See page 152 in your K110D manual. There's a slow speed sync setting that (I believe) allows you to do exactly what you're asking. I'm assuming this will also control the hot shoe flash.

01-14-2008, 11:40 AM	#37
jshurak Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: philadelphia Posts: 626	Ok, so this thread hasn't been updated a while. But these three links to the balancing sections on the strobist blog. pretty good info... Balancing Twilight Balance Sun/Crosslight And Finally Balancing Indoor Flash/Ambient

01-14-2008, 11:53 AM	#38
travis_cooper Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 300 Original Poster	Thanks, I'll check them out.

04-04-2008, 03:24 PM	#39
Zilla Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 39	planet neil - tangents flash photography techniques Article has a good section on "dragging the shutter"

04-04-2008, 04:42 PM	#40
MJB DIGITAL Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: st. louis Posts: 1,170	you can get that 540 off of the camera and hand hold it out to the side, no prob