Night Photography Techniques

**DAZ** · 03-13-2012, 06:16 PM

The points of the stars are from the aperture blades. The more wide open the aperture the less the prominent the points. A lens with even numbers of blades will give the fewest number of points.
DAZ

zosxavius · 03-13-2012, 06:20 PM

I do realize that's its the points in the blades. This lens is a 5 blade design.....hmmm..I think I need to try some different lenses.

**DAZ** · 03-13-2012, 06:23 PM

The point come from the blades not from point on the blades but yes use a lens with and even number of blades for less points on the stars.

DAZ

**DAZ** · 03-13-2012, 06:33 PM

For each blade you get 2 points but with an even number the points line up on top of each other. With an odd number the point don’t line up so you can see all the points. 5 blades should give you 10 but 6 should only give you 6 points. 7 would be 14 and 8 only 8. The more wide open the smaller the points.
DAZ

zosxavius · 03-13-2012, 06:48 PM

I tried the kit lens for 15 seconds. Less flare. Something tells me the more modern/better coating is helping. Hmmm. I'm going to do some tests later on when I get my hands on my tripod. Something tells me I should be looking at a better lens with better coating.

westmill · 03-14-2012, 02:54 AM

Thats kinda why i suggested using a good UV. Its a poss it could have a good coating.
Or the other way around an be the cause !
Thats good info from Daz though. Hell... Ive just learnt a bit more myself even !
Cheers Daz !

**interested_observer** · 03-14-2012, 05:03 AM

You can try several approaches or a combination of all of them together:

Under expose in manual mode to try to reduce the bloom - then use post processing to try to bring out the additional features.
Try bracketing with 3 or 5 frames and then stack and post process to taste.
Use the moon to light the landscape a bit.
Try experimenting across the board - the film is essentially free...

Here is an attempt with my new K5. However, for the last 3 years I have been doing the same thing with my K20. There is definitely more dynamic range in the K5's sensor, but you can do a lot with the K7.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/174306-cityscape-camel.html

zosxavius · 03-14-2012, 06:21 AM

Originally posted by interested_observer

You can try several approaches or a combination of all of them together:

Under expose in manual mode to try to reduce the bloom - then use post processing to try to bring out the additional features.
Try bracketing with 3 or 5 frames and then stack and post process to taste.
Use the moon to light the landscape a bit.
Try experimenting across the board - the film is essentially free...

Here is an attempt with my new K5. However, for the last 3 years I have been doing the same thing with my K20. There is definitely more dynamic range in the K5's sensor, but you can do a lot with the K7.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/174306-cityscape-camel.html

I know this is slightly offtopic...but what lens did you shoot that with? Nice shot btw. I think I am going to try some things soon here. I will post back with an update soon.

**rbefly** · 03-18-2012, 05:11 AM

Hello Zosxavius,
Well, I had a hard time imagining what the problem was, until you posted the photo; Very nice shot, by the way.
But I think the dilemma may be in your expectations, not the actual photo.
Perhaps you want a night-time photo with the shadow details of a well-lit daytime shot, and realistic (i.e. small) highlights.
That's not going to happen (without a lot of PP, anyway).
The photo you posted is nearly EXACTLY how we really see at night. The human eye doesn't see well into dark corners, and we perceive light sources as larger or brighter than they really are. If we looked at them for a longer time (greater exposure time) they would flare.
About the only difference is that the camera records trails of light (moving objects) well, and the eye doesn't really do this; The eye doesn't compensate for the TIME factor of moving light sources. We see in a series of short bursts, not one long elapsed-time frame.
So you have good (for night) detail, great color reflections in the water and a clear, dark sky. The light sources appear realistic to me (larger-than-life but not overpowering) and a bit of flare seems normal. Trying f/5.6 or f/11.0 around your standard f/8.0 might reduce or enlarge the highlights, it's worth a try. A different lens would also change the shape or size of the highlights.
Are you recording how the scene really looked, or how you want it to look?
JMO,
Ron

zosxavius · 03-20-2012, 08:42 AM

Its probably more how I want the scene to look. Nothing is that bright at night. I think natural looking night shots are kind of boring and really dark. I agree that you are right that it is more expectations than technical problems. I will be doing some more night shooting soon. I will run some tests and get back on this thread. Thanks for all the replies everyone...it at least lets me know that I'm going in a good direction.

zosxavius · 03-24-2012, 02:18 PM

Ok I have refined my techniques a bit. Enough so that I think I could easily write a short guide on nightshooting. I am considering doing this, and I wonder if pentaxforums would post it for me.

Anyways I've found hdr works really well and photomatix does a good job of including light trails and whatnot and does an excellent job of eliminating ghosting. Also I found that leaving the camera in live view works well as the mirror starts (and stays) locked throughout the exposure. You just need to set it into bracketing mode with the self timer. Here was one of my better shots with the tamron. I shot this right after blue hour. Notice the lack of flare in the lights.

03-14-2012, 05:03 AM	#22
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707	You can try several approaches or a combination of all of them together: Under expose in manual mode to try to reduce the bloom - then use post processing to try to bring out the additional features. Try bracketing with 3 or 5 frames and then stack and post process to taste. Use the moon to light the landscape a bit. Try experimenting across the board - the film is essentially free... Here is an attempt with my new K5. However, for the last 3 years I have been doing the same thing with my K20. There is definitely more dynamic range in the K5's sensor, but you can do a lot with the K7. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/174306-cityscape-camel.html

03-14-2012, 06:21 AM	#23
zosxavius Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Somewhere, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 458 Original Poster	Originally posted by interested_observer You can try several approaches or a combination of all of them together: Under expose in manual mode to try to reduce the bloom - then use post processing to try to bring out the additional features. Try bracketing with 3 or 5 frames and then stack and post process to taste. Use the moon to light the landscape a bit. Try experimenting across the board - the film is essentially free... Here is an attempt with my new K5. However, for the last 3 years I have been doing the same thing with my K20. There is definitely more dynamic range in the K5's sensor, but you can do a lot with the K7. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/174306-cityscape-camel.html I know this is slightly offtopic...but what lens did you shoot that with? Nice shot btw. I think I am going to try some things soon here. I will post back with an update soon.

03-18-2012, 05:11 AM	#24
rbefly Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Denver, Colorado Photos: Albums Posts: 2,030	Nice Shot! Hello Zosxavius, Well, I had a hard time imagining what the problem was, until you posted the photo; Very nice shot, by the way. But I think the dilemma may be in your expectations, not the actual photo. Perhaps you want a night-time photo with the shadow details of a well-lit daytime shot, and realistic (i.e. small) highlights. That's not going to happen (without a lot of PP, anyway). The photo you posted is nearly EXACTLY how we really see at night. The human eye doesn't see well into dark corners, and we perceive light sources as larger or brighter than they really are. If we looked at them for a longer time (greater exposure time) they would flare. About the only difference is that the camera records trails of light (moving objects) well, and the eye doesn't really do this; The eye doesn't compensate for the TIME factor of moving light sources. We see in a series of short bursts, not one long elapsed-time frame. So you have good (for night) detail, great color reflections in the water and a clear, dark sky. The light sources appear realistic to me (larger-than-life but not overpowering) and a bit of flare seems normal. Trying f/5.6 or f/11.0 around your standard f/8.0 might reduce or enlarge the highlights, it's worth a try. A different lens would also change the shape or size of the highlights. Are you recording how the scene really looked, or how you want it to look? JMO, Ron

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03-13-2012, 06:16 PM	#16
DAZ Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Everett, WA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 744	The points of the stars are from the aperture blades. The more wide open the aperture the less the prominent the points. A lens with even numbers of blades will give the fewest number of points. DAZ

03-13-2012, 06:20 PM	#17
zosxavius Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Somewhere, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 458 Original Poster	I do realize that's its the points in the blades. This lens is a 5 blade design.....hmmm..I think I need to try some different lenses.

03-13-2012, 06:23 PM	#18
DAZ Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Everett, WA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 744	The point come from the blades not from point on the blades but yes use a lens with and even number of blades for less points on the stars. DAZ

03-13-2012, 06:33 PM	#19
DAZ Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Everett, WA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 744	For each blade you get 2 points but with an even number the points line up on top of each other. With an odd number the point don’t line up so you can see all the points. 5 blades should give you 10 but 6 should only give you 6 points. 7 would be 14 and 8 only 8. The more wide open the smaller the points. DAZ

03-13-2012, 06:48 PM	#20
zosxavius Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Somewhere, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 458 Original Poster	I tried the kit lens for 15 seconds. Less flare. Something tells me the more modern/better coating is helping. Hmmm. I'm going to do some tests later on when I get my hands on my tripod. Something tells me I should be looking at a better lens with better coating.

03-14-2012, 02:54 AM	#21
westmill Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Stoke on Trent Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,146	Thats kinda why i suggested using a good UV. Its a poss it could have a good coating. Or the other way around an be the cause ! Thats good info from Daz though. Hell... Ive just learnt a bit more myself even ! Cheers Daz !

03-20-2012, 08:42 AM	#25
zosxavius Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Somewhere, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 458 Original Poster	Its probably more how I want the scene to look. Nothing is that bright at night. I think natural looking night shots are kind of boring and really dark. I agree that you are right that it is more expectations than technical problems. I will be doing some more night shooting soon. I will run some tests and get back on this thread. Thanks for all the replies everyone...it at least lets me know that I'm going in a good direction.

03-24-2012, 02:18 PM	#26
zosxavius Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Somewhere, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 458 Original Poster	Ok I have refined my techniques a bit. Enough so that I think I could easily write a short guide on nightshooting. I am considering doing this, and I wonder if pentaxforums would post it for me. Anyways I've found hdr works really well and photomatix does a good job of including light trails and whatnot and does an excellent job of eliminating ghosting. Also I found that leaving the camera in live view works well as the mirror starts (and stays) locked throughout the exposure. You just need to set it into bracketing mode with the self timer. Here was one of my better shots with the tamron. I shot this right after blue hour. Notice the lack of flare in the lights.