[westmill]

Yikes ! It reminds me of using an old Kodak with fold up bellows. 6x9 if I remember corectly lol. It used a film that was very much the same as 120 and 220 but they wouldnt fit because the end of the spools were different so i alterd the camera to except them lol.
It had an adjustable shutter in the lens and clockwork self timer. The aprature had markings based on this rule though with the sunny day simbles etc.
I was 13 years old when using this and developing the film from it in my dads darkroom.
Those were the days hehe

[eddie1960]

that would be 620 film. same as 120 thinner spool. you can adapt 120 spools but it's easier to get your hands on a couple of 620 spools and recycle them.

[westmill]

that would be 620 film. same as 120 thinner spool. you can adapt 120 spools but it's easier to get your hands on a couple of 620 spools and recycle them.

That was the one lol. Tut yer must be as old as me lol

[tuco]

My old Rolliecord IV has the Sunny 11 rule on a placard on the back of the camera. It also gives adjustments for seasons. I guess back in the 50's the film needed an extra stop compared to today. Film has a wide latitude especially many newer color films where the New Portra 400 can be shot anywhere from ISO 200 -800 with normal developing and get good results.

[eddie1960]

That was the one lol. Tut yer must be as old as me lol

my first camera at about 7-8 was a Kodak 620 my great aunt gave me, I never really did well with it (no-one ever explained how it worked i just guessed) and only got more serious when i got a Zenit at 13

I use the Sunny 16 Rule as an anchor point and adjust from there with the histogram feedback. The Digisix meter I carry gives me an EV value (set to ISO 100) and I divide or multiply from there. Sunny 16 is an EV of 15 so when I'm shooting theater, most times the stage is EV 7 and I have to compensate with 8 stops from Sunny 16.

I haven't shot anything but manual mode for 3 years and have no idea if the meters in my K-5s work. Lately, I don't even need the Digisix, I can guesstimate pretty close and adjust with the histogram. Since I shoot DNGs and the K-5s have such great dynamic range, its a workflow I've gotten very confident about. You can see the results here. Brooke Meyer Photography

[westmill]

my first camera at about 7-8 was a Kodak 620 my great aunt gave me, I never really did well with it (no-one ever explained how it worked i just guessed) and only got more serious when i got a Zenit at 13

I had to wait until I was sixteen before i got my first propper camera. It was the first thing i ever bought with my first wage !
the Practica MTL3. It even had built in metering woop woop lol
the following week i bought a flash unit and a Hanimex 135mm F2.8 and an alloy case

[RioRico]

I seem to recall that a few of my film cams have S16 rules on them -- the Universal Mercury II CX half-frame 135 interchangeable-lens rangefinder for sure. I'm not sure about the others as they're 1000 miles away at the moment and I can't check them now. I also seem to recall that some film data sheets or boxes bore the rule. That was just a reality of Those Days.

[eddie1960]

I use the Sunny 16 Rule as an anchor point and adjust from there with the histogram feedback. The Digisix meter I carry gives me an EV value (set to ISO 100) and I divide or multiply from there. Sunny 16 is an EV of 15 so when I'm shooting theater, most times the stage is EV 7 and I have to compensate with 8 stops from Sunny 16.

I haven't shot anything but manual mode for 3 years and have no idea if the meters in my K-5s work. Lately, I don't even need the Digisix, I can guesstimate pretty close and adjust with the histogram. Since I shoot DNGs and the K-5s have such great dynamic range, its a workflow I've gotten very confident about. You can see the results here. Brooke Meyer Photography

Good tip. I'm pretty much the same. I shoot the same venues frequently so I know what i can get from the lights. I'm always in manual mode (the lights aren't always as co-operative as those great stage shots though - I've been down to iso 3200 @ 2.8 and 1/60 in many places grrrr you have lights use them

[pacerr]

Perusing this thread, it seems apparent there's still room for further explanation of the "Sunny 16" thing -- at least for some of the newer folks.

"Sunny 16" doesn't just apply to the use of f16 on bright sunny days. It's merely a memory aid for a process which may be used as a starting point for calculating ANY exposure value for ANY reasonable lighting condition and ANY type of photography gear.

The exposure table that accompanied most films looked something like this:

Given ISO/ASA value = nearest shutter speed

Snow/Beach - very bright, glare = f22
Bright sun - crisp shadows = f16
Hazy sun - indistinct shadows = f11
Cloudy - no discernible shadow = f8
Open shade - no direct lighting = f5.6-4

Using the reciprocal values for EV, the aperture or shutter speed may be selected to suit ANY aperture/shutter speed combination. E.g., (assuming ISO 200), f 16@1/250 could just as well be f8@1/1000 or f32@1/60 depending on the speed and aperture values desired.

Likewise, the exposure value may be adjusted up or down to suite the lighting conditions.

But shutter speed and aperture were expected to be adjusted according to the reciprocity rules to suit the photographer's intent (i.e., blur vs. DoF) and equipment limitations.

As stated earlier, ISO (ASA) didn't necessarily match the shutter speeds available and these ballpark values still benefited from minor adjustments based on personal experience with one's camera, film type and processing methods and using EV adjustments for equipment quirks and processing methods were the mark of experienced photographers. Where inexperience or uncertainty was involved it was suggested that bracketing be used.

These suggestions are still found in every basic photo course and in the mental tool box of most older photographers and work as well today as 100 years ago.

( It's also worth keeping in mind that when this "rule" was developed an "advanced" camera might have only had one or two choices for both aperture and shutter speed. Sometime they were linked and merely labeled "Sunny", "Cloudy" and "Bulb"! "Bulb" was manipulated by a pneumatic tube attached to a squeeze bulb and speed was timed by counting aloud, "One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, three . . . ah, the good old days were so simple, eh? )

With the availability of instant digital review with "blinkies and histograms" in modern digital cameras there's little excuse for badly missed exposures today even when using the "Sunny-estimate" rule in lieu of TTL metering.

Properly using a light meter, whether hand held or TTL, requires more skill and experience than most persons realize -- as demonstrated by the continuing saga of poorly exposed images and condemnation of metering technology.

H2

[Ratmagiclady]

Perusing this thread, it seems apparent there's still room for further explanation of the "Sunny 16" thing -- at least for some of the newer folks.

"Sunny 16" doesn't just apply to the use of f16 on bright sunny days. It's merely a memory aid for a process which may be used as a starting point for calculating ANY exposure value for ANY reasonable lighting condition and ANY type of photography gear.

The exposure table that accompanied most films looked something like this:

Given ISO/ASA value = nearest shutter speed

Snow/Beach - very bright, glare = f22
Bright sun - crisp shadows = f16
Hazy sun - indistinct shadows = f11
Cloudy - no discernible shadow = f8
Open shade - no direct lighting = f5.6-4

Using the reciprocal values for EV, the aperture or shutter speed may be selected to suit ANY aperture/shutter speed combination. E.g., (assuming ISO 200), f 16@1/250 could just as well be f8@1/1000 or f32@1/60 depending on the speed and aperture values desired.

Likewise, the exposure value may be adjusted up or down to suite the lighting conditions.

But shutter speed and aperture were expected to be adjusted according to the reciprocity rules to suit the photographer's intent (i.e., blur vs. DoF) and equipment limitations.

As stated earlier, ISO (ASA) didn't necessarily match the shutter speeds available and these ballpark values still benefited from minor adjustments based on personal experience with one's camera, film type and processing methods and using EV adjustments for equipment quirks and processing methods were the mark of experienced photographers. Where inexperience or uncertainty was involved it was suggested that bracketing be used.

These suggestions are still found in every basic photo course and in the mental tool box of most older photographers and work as well today as 100 years ago.

( It's also worth keeping in mind that when this "rule" was developed an "advanced" camera might have only had one or two choices for both aperture and shutter speed. Sometime they were linked and merely labeled "Sunny", "Cloudy" and "Bulb"! "Bulb" was manipulated by a pneumatic tube attached to a squeeze bulb and speed was timed by counting aloud, "One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, three . . . ah, the good old days were so simple, eh? )

With the availability of instant digital review with "blinkies and histograms" in modern digital cameras there's little excuse for badly missed exposures today even when using the "Sunny-estimate" rule in lieu of TTL metering.

Properly using a light meter, whether hand held or TTL, requires more skill and experience than most persons realize -- as demonstrated by the continuing saga of poorly exposed images and condemnation of metering technology.

H2

Bingo.


Also, it's to bear in mind that most films of the day had more overexposure latitude than even the best digitals of today. It'd still be a good rule-of-thumb for *proper* exposure, but don't ever think the world never gets brighter than 'Sunny 16.'

Long time no see, btw, Pacerr, and good to see you. Are you still dealing in Mamiya stuff?

[ismaelg]

"Bulb" was manipulated by a pneumatic tube attached to a squeeze bulb and speed was timed by counting aloud, "One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, three . . . ah, the good old days were so simple, eh? )

HA! I'm not a kid but I don't consider myself an old timer....yet. I'm stuck in between.
Sometimes I count:
"One Scooby Doo, Two Scooby Doo, 3 Scooby Doo...."