[kaiserz]

Staff note: This post may contain affiliate links, which means Pentax Forums may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. If you would like to support the forum directly, you may also make a donation here.

---

Hey guys, I like shooting with a very shallow DOF. The feel, the bokeh, the creaminess. But here's my question, is there a better way to do this? a better way to improve my shooting? cause sometimes I find myself using liveview and then using the info button to focus. I don't have any focusing screen for my K-7 but I would love to get one, is there a specific screen for this kind of shooting? Thanks

[Arrvon]

Kaiserz,

I also have the K7 and have the same love for shallow dof/bokeh. Asking myself the same question over the past weeks and doing research on this forum led me to purchase and install the wonderful Canon ee-s screen (or Type-S screen as its called at focusingscreens.com).

I was just missing too many shots with the stock focusing screen. The ee-s screen is a joy to use and focus with shallow dof. The great part about it is that whether you focus automatically or manually, you can see what's actually in focus much easier. The screen helps make the point of focus easier to see by making the out of focus areas more oof. See the excellent thread on the forum here for more info. I am posting from my cell so unfortunately can't link it for you at the moment. A quick search for 'Canon ee-s screen' should bring it up for you.

Good luck!

[RioRico]

I use a cheap katzeye-clone focusing screen. It helps with well-lit contrasty subjects, but not a lot otherwise. Your mileage may vary. I depend much more on focus confirmation (FC) and catch-in-focus (CIF) aka trap-focus. All these, and AF on the right glass, are aides but not crutches. Ultra-thin DOF is still a visual crap-shoot, so I do a bit of focus-bracketing, and eventually I get what I want. Usually. Sometimes it takes work. Ugh.

PS: I was going to mention the thin-DOF lenses I use: K50/1.2; various 50/1.4s but especially the FA; Tomioka 55/1.4; Nikkor and Jupiter-9 85/2; S-M-C Tak 135/2.5. And I was going to mention adding a Sony VCL-1546A 1.5x screw-on adapter that I mount on the FA50/1.4 to get a 75/1.4 optic. But that jogged me to think: What if I put the 1.5x Sony onto the Jupiter-9? It's already romantic wide-open. What'll it be like as a 120/2?

[Lowell Goudge]

this really belongs in the DSLR forum, and there are tons of threads on replacement focusing screens with focusing aids.

I have taken the liberty of attaching a few links to help.

Pentax K-5 & K-7 KatzEye Focusing Screen
Dual 45° Split image Focus Screen For Pentax K7 K-7 | eBay
Dual Diagonal 45 Split Image Focus Screen for Pentax K7 | eBay

the Katzeye is reputed to be the best screen but expensive,

I have screens from jinfinance for my *istD and K10D. Personally I like th ediagonal split image, although accuracy is lost reportidly wioth a diagonal split image as opposed to intersecting at a right angle

[kaiserz]

Kaiserz,

I also have the K7 and have the same love for shallow dof/bokeh. Asking myself the same question over the past weeks and doing research on this forum led me to purchase and install the wonderful Canon ee-s screen (or Type-S screen as its called at focusingscreens.com).

I was just missing too many shots with the stock focusing screen. The ee-s screen is a joy to use and focus with shallow dof. The great part about it is that whether you focus automatically or manually, you can see what's actually in focus much easier. The screen helps make the point of focus easier to see by making the out of focus areas more oof. See the excellent thread on the forum here for more info. I am posting from my cell so unfortunately can't link it for you at the moment. A quick search for 'Canon ee-s screen' should bring it up for you.

Good luck!

Thank you so much, this is a great help! (: Aside from getting the ee-s/type-s screen what kind of technique or method of shooting can you suggest? And having the type-s focusing screen does it bother you if you go over f5?

I use a cheap katzeye-clone focusing screen. It helps with well-lit contrasty subjects, but not a lot otherwise. Your mileage may vary. I depend much more on focus confirmation (FC) and catch-in-focus (CIF) aka trap-focus. All these, and AF on the right glass, are aides but not crutches. Ultra-thin DOF is still a visual crap-shoot, so I do a bit of focus-bracketing, and eventually I get what I want. Usually. Sometimes it takes work. Ugh.

PS: I was going to mention the thin-DOF lenses I use: K50/1.2; various 50/1.4s but especially the FA; Tomioka 55/1.4; Nikkor and Jupiter-9 85/2; S-M-C Tak 135/2.5. And I was going to mention adding a Sony VCL-1546A 1.5x screw-on adapter that I mount on the FA50/1.4 to get a 75/1.4 optic. But that jogged me to think: What if I put the 1.5x Sony onto the Jupiter-9? It's already romantic wide-open. What'll it be like as a 120/2?

Thank you so much (: once again you sir never fail to impress me with the amount of knowledge that you have and share to the members on this forum (: Thanks you.
I also depend on FC and CIF but sometimes the FC+CIF just won't bite. and since I don't really have an AF lens that has a very wide aperture I don't really use them that much for SDOF shooting.
About focus bracketing, what is the best way to this? I'm assuming that I would be needing a tripod for this to achieve a good photo?

And wow... I can't imagine shooting with those lenses! (: My dream is to someday have my own k50 1.2, I just placed bid on one @ ebay and it was sold for $325.


Lowell Goudge. Thanks (:

[RioRico]

About focus bracketing, what is the best way to this? I'm assuming that I would be needing a tripod for this to achieve a good photo?

Other folk's focus bracketing might involve tripod, focusing rack, etc. Those are needed for focus-stacking of macro shots. To me, focus bracketing is like exposure bracketing: take a series of shots from slightly different positions (or exposure values) and select the best. So if I have an immobile or dead or patient subject, I'd shoot for thin DOF, then move slightly and shoot again, and repeat as needed or until the subject goes away.

And wow... I can't imagine shooting with those lenses! (: My dream is to someday have my own k50 1.2, I just placed bid on one @ ebay and it was sold for $325.

Ya shoulda gone to US$350, eh? That's still a good price now. Mine was US$250 a bit over a year ago.

As for the other glass I mentioned: I got most cheap, and most of the manual lenses can still be found for under US$100 each. One budget entry into the arena is the Takumar Bayonet 135/2.5, which doesn't have the most sophisticated coatings, but is still better than most of its competition. 50mm or 55mm f/1.4s from Sears, Yashica, Olympus can be had for non-outrageous prices; Olympus OM and Yashica C/Y mounts are easy to mod for Pentax use.

Here's a rough calculus you can use for figuring relative DOF. I call it the DOF Index or FL/AP, focal length divided by aperture. The FL/AP of 50/1, 100/2, and 200/4 lenses are all the same, and these have roughly similar DOFs. The higher the FL/AP number, the thinner the DOF. So a 135/2.5 (FL/AP= 54) has a bit thinner DOF than a 50/1.2 (FL/AP= ~42). These are not exact numbers (a 55/1.4 actually has very slightly thinner DOF than a 50/1.2), nor do they tell you what the DOF is. They're just a rough way to compare lenses. See DOFmaster for exact numbers.

[Arrvon]

Thank you so much, this is a great help! (: Aside from getting the ee-s/type-s screen what kind of technique or method of shooting can you suggest? And having the type-s focusing screen does it bother you if you go over f5?

Thanks for the kind words. I unfortunately can't add too much knowledge regarding shooting method. Live view would be the most accurate, but as you probably know, with the K7 it seems to suck up the battery life and I have found that in that last 25% of your battery, it will shut off without warning when using live view. In comparison, without live mode, you can continue shooting with the viewfinder for a at least 50 more shots. I have just been struggling away with manual focus through the viewfinder and checking the focus either with 'digital preview' or simply in the 3 second review photo where I can quickly zoom in with the rear wheel to check focus. Needless to say, I now have a much better success rate with the ee-s screen vs. the stock screen.

With regards to using the ee-s screen and shooting over f5. It only really becomes an issue when the specific lens you are using is a slow one. For me, it only really gets dark when I am zooming in with the Tamron 18-250mm when the biggest aperture goes over f5. I will be honest, that it hasn't been too much of an issue, but then again i've only had the ee-s screen for a few days so can honestly say I haven't tested it in every situation. The key to remember is that no matter what aperture you are choosing to take a photo at, while you are focusing, the lens is always wide open at it's widest aperture. Most lenses have a widest aperture of under F5 if they are anything better than a kit lens, so you don't have to worry about it too much. If you haven't read the thread on the ee-s screen, check it out here. On the last page I just posted some pics of what the viewfinder looks like with the stock screen and then the ee-s screen at various apertures.

Good luck with whatever you decide to go with, and let us know!

[kaiserz]

@RioRico Once again I would like to thank you sir (: I really learned a lot again from you. I'm also a big fan of the M series, which lens would you suggest for me to get for this kind of shooting? (I'm also going to try to get the takumar 135 2.5)

@Arrvon Thanks! I will try to get it once i get enough money (:

[RioRico]

I'm also a big fan of the M series, which lens would you suggest for me to get for this kind of shooting? (I'm also going to try to get the takumar 135 2.5)

For thin DOF, a faster lens is (almost) always better. But another way to think of it is as surgical separation of subject from surroundings. We're trying to make the subject very distinct from their context. This is also called subject isolation. Maybe it takes a fast lens (highject. FL/AP number), but technique also comes into play. Here again are the basic rules of DOF:

* For thinner DOF, use a longer focal length and/or wider aperture and/or closer subject distance
* For thicker DOF, use shorter focal length and/or tighter aperture and/or further subject distance
* Apparent DOF is also affected by subject-to-background distance, and by lighting (keep the BG darker).

I can get thin DOF even with a fairly wide slow lens like a 35/3.5 -- if I shoot from 50cm / 20in away, and the background is at least that far from the subject. Plug some numbers into the DOFmaster calculator to see how it all works.
_________________________________

What M-type lenses are good here? Some I have and use include:

* Vivitar-Kiron 24/2 -- not cheap, but a fine lens, if the iris blades aren't stuck
* SMC (K) 50/1.2 -- also not cheap, but you already knew that -- can't be beat!
* SMC M50/1.7 -- an all-time favorite -- I hear the M55/1.7 is quite good too
* Takumar Bayonet 135/2.5 -- already on your list -- also try the SMC M135/3.5

I'm sure other fine M-series prospects exist; I just don't have them! Some that are likely available in PK-M mount include:

* Vivitar-Komine 28/2 CFWA (close-focus) -- this is my most-used MF prime
* almost anything in the 24-40mm or 58-100mm ranges that's f/2 or faster
* whatever Helios-44 58/2 version is in M-mount (someone, help me here!)
* almost any 135/2.8 -- most versions from most makers are quite decent
* and longer lenses invariably have thinner DOF, even with slower apertures

All you need is money. Or luck. Or both. Have fun!