[Lowell Goudge]

Lots of photography thoughts on my mind, partly because I'm trying to figure out how to best make use of my growing collection of (cheap) lenses (LBA at its best), and partly because of my limited time to shoot and post process. Given the diverse nature of the forums, I'd be interested in seeing your replies to any or all of the questions.

1. Do you need to invest in great glass to be a great photographer (or to take great pictures)? The analogy that comes to mind is hand tools vs. power tools. In some cases the latter lets you do things faster/cleaner/easier but in other cases they let you do things that can't be done by hand.But on the flip side, it is easy to afford a cheap drill, saw and clamps whereas if all you buy is ONE expensive power tool you can do that step great, but nothing else. I appreciate this depends on how wide a range of subjects you want to shoot, but that is something I'm still exploring.

while lots of people like to discuss cameras and compare them with tools the analogy is wrong. Power tools are faster, but not necessairly any higher quality than hand tools, they also allow you to make mistakes faster, hence the addage measure twice cut once. Quality tools are more related to the materials, and with curring tools, the ability to hold an edge longer, with less sharpening. SOmeone commented in another thread about using a sledge hammer to put in drywall nails was related to quality tools, to which I commented it didn't matter how much you paid for a sledge hammer, it would still make a mess of the drywall. the tool comparison really has 3 aspects, the first is there are right and wrong tools for a job. Now some miight argue with photography that breaking the rules is artistic expression, so even this line is blurred, The second aspect is knowing your tools, and how they behave. understanding the limits of your kit can cause you to approach things differently and still come away with great shots, not understanding your kit usually has you blaming the equipment for your failure to get shots, the last aspect is that for some situations there are truely only very expensive solutions with specific lenses, so in this extreme, yes, bigger better faster glass can make a difference, but I would argue that this is not really as important as people make it out to be.

2. When you view brilliant photos by other shooters do you find it inspiring or frustrating (because you don't think you can accomplish the same level of achievement)? Does your reaction change if the photo is in a style that you tend to shoot or don't shoot at all?

I think that this is a very personal issue. I look at photos and styles in the sense of like and dont like. I try to take the best shots I can, but dont beat myself up over failure to achieve what others can, especially pro's and aspiring pro's, to me this is a hobby coupled to other hobbies, I have a day job!

3. How do you deal with missed opportunities? For example, if you've got your 28mm lens on the camera, and some interesting action starts happening that needs a 200 mm, do you switch lenses or just go back and focus on the style of shooting you planned to do with the 28?

i have had 2 bodies since the early 1980's and always shot with 2 different lenses, and films each suided to the lens attached, it is usually a simple matter of changing cameras. for the times when I am shooting with only 1 lens/camera i consider how to take a worthwhile shot with what I have. Missed opportunities are learning expereiences, maybe you can't get a close up but perhaps the reaction of the surroundings makes a statement by itself.

4. What is a good keeper rate (and I appreciate this will vary depending of the difficulty of the subject matter so that should be included as part of the answer)?

a good keeper rate is a function of subject. THe pose of the subject is outside the control of the equipment. For me, from a technical ( exposure focus and equipment) perspective the keeper rate should be well above 50%, from a posing framing and asthetics, this is wholly the photographer and should not enter into the debate

5. How much can you really learn from reading a photography book? If there answer is a lot, which book? (I'm busy plowing through the offerings our library has, but the first one I looked at quickly, Bryan Peterson's "Learning to See Creatively", seemed like a good book but didn't seem to offer me much.

the best way to learn from a book is to look at what they do, duplicate it with your kit, and understand what and why you are doing it. once learned, you should always view scenes from you rkit of techniques and recognize what to do in certain sitations. I find myself seeing things as I am just walking or driving, and thinking, that something would look great shot a certain way

6. When you post process images, do you find the improvements come in a linear fashion, or non-linear. In other words, do you find that each tweak improves image a bit in a gradual way, or do you find the first few tweaks you make have the greatest effect, or do you find that the image only goes from various levels of "good" to being "great" when you apply the last few tweaks, or when you adjust certain parameters to a very narrow range of values?

Thanks,
Marc

I don't post process much, I prefer to shoot jpeg and work with the settings to get what I want . I have had this referred to as pre post processing. Post is something that requires to some extent shooting jpeg prethought with respect to the use of the shot. If you shoot in raw, there is a lot more opportunity to do alternate processing but I am not really into that.

[alohadave]

Lots of photography thoughts on my mind, partly because I'm trying to figure out how to best make use of my growing collection of (cheap) lenses (LBA at its best), and partly because of my limited time to shoot and post process. Given the diverse nature of the forums, I'd be interested in seeing your replies to any or all of the questions.

1. Do you need to invest in great glass to be a great photographer (or to take great pictures)? The analogy that comes to mind is hand tools vs. power tools. In some cases the latter lets you do things faster/cleaner/easier but in other cases they let you do things that can't be done by hand.But on the flip side, it is easy to afford a cheap drill, saw and clamps whereas if all you buy is ONE expensive power tool you can do that step great, but nothing else. I appreciate this depends on how wide a range of subjects you want to shoot, but that is something I'm still exploring.

Your gear does not make you a better photographer. A better photographer will use the gear that he has or needs to execute the pictures that he is taking.

2. When you view brilliant photos by other shooters do you find it inspiring or frustrating (because you don't think you can accomplish the same level of achievement)? Does your reaction change if the photo is in a style that you tend to shoot or don't shoot at all?

Sometimes, but I usually take it as inspiration of what is possible. I have my own style and don't feel bad that other people have different vision.

3. How do you deal with missed opportunities? For example, if you've got your 28mm lens on the camera, and some interesting action starts happening that needs a 200 mm, do you switch lenses or just go back and focus on the style of shooting you planned to do with the 28?

If I have time, I switch lenses, otherwise I keep doing what I'm doing. When I travel or do walkabouts, I switch lenses constantly as I see things to shoot. I don't feel compelled to stick with one lens unless I'm practicing a particular technique. If I am, then I'm probably not looking at other things anyway.

4. What is a good keeper rate (and I appreciate this will vary depending of the difficulty of the subject matter so that should be included as part of the answer)?

It depends.

5. How much can you really learn from reading a photography book? If there answer is a lot, which book? (I'm busy plowing through the offerings our library has, but the first one I looked at quickly, Bryan Peterson's "Learning to See Creatively", seemed like a good book but didn't seem to offer me much.

Technical books are fine for learning concepts and techniques, but IMO, not many books are useful for learning creativity. You need to experiment and go where your vision takes you. It is far more important to take pictures that interest you than to try to force creativity. You'll find ways to shoot things that interest your or that you are compelled to shoot than things that you think you need to shoot to be creative.

6. When you post process images, do you find the improvements come in a linear fashion, or non-linear. In other words, do you find that each tweak improves image a bit in a gradual way, or do you find the first few tweaks you make have the greatest effect, or do you find that the image only goes from various levels of "good" to being "great" when you apply the last few tweaks, or when you adjust certain parameters to a very narrow range of values?

Doing a proper levels adjustment is usually a good first step, after that, it's usually seasoning to taste.

Thanks,
Marc

Your welcome

[emalvick]

Lots of photography thoughts on my mind, partly because I'm trying to figure out how to best make use of my growing collection of (cheap) lenses (LBA at its best), and partly because of my limited time to shoot and post process. Given the diverse nature of the forums, I'd be interested in seeing your replies to any or all of the questions.

1. Do you need to invest in great glass to be a great photographer (or to take great pictures)? The analogy that comes to mind is hand tools vs. power tools. In some cases the latter lets you do things faster/cleaner/easier but in other cases they let you do things that can't be done by hand.But on the flip side, it is easy to afford a cheap drill, saw and clamps whereas if all you buy is ONE expensive power tool you can do that step great, but nothing else. I appreciate this depends on how wide a range of subjects you want to shoot, but that is something I'm still exploring.

2. When you view brilliant photos by other shooters do you find it inspiring or frustrating (because you don't think you can accomplish the same level of achievement)? Does your reaction change if the photo is in a style that you tend to shoot or don't shoot at all?

3. How do you deal with missed opportunities? For example, if you've got your 28mm lens on the camera, and some interesting action starts happening that needs a 200 mm, do you switch lenses or just go back and focus on the style of shooting you planned to do with the 28?

4. What is a good keeper rate (and I appreciate this will vary depending of the difficulty of the subject matter so that should be included as part of the answer)?

5. How much can you really learn from reading a photography book? If there answer is a lot, which book? (I'm busy plowing through the offerings our library has, but the first one I looked at quickly, Bryan Peterson's "Learning to See Creatively", seemed like a good book but didn't seem to offer me much.

6. When you post process images, do you find the improvements come in a linear fashion, or non-linear. In other words, do you find that each tweak improves image a bit in a gradual way, or do you find the first few tweaks you make have the greatest effect, or do you find that the image only goes from various levels of "good" to being "great" when you apply the last few tweaks, or when you adjust certain parameters to a very narrow range of values?

Thanks,
Marc

1. No... for two reasons: a) with Pentax and its fantastic M series, A series, etc. legacy lenses, you can have great glass with little investment. b) As others have mentioned, you can learn to work with what you have and that will make you better.

2. I find it inspiring if I really like it and I can form an understanding of how to obtain the results. I find that these days I recognize the process in getting to the results, so it is rare that I would be frustrated. However, just because I can recognize the process, it doesn't mean I will be successful myself. That is what makes it inspiring. I like the challenge, and I go out often with the attitude of taking a boring scene and making it grand, and I go out with the idea of each photo being the best I can do. I'm rarely frustrated by failures unless I truly see it as a fault of my equipment. My own faults can be worked out. Last, I do find inspiration in styles I don't shoot. I think there is more to learn from styles you don't shoot than those you do. Elements of lighting, composition, can be useful for incorporation into my own style of photography and broadening my knowledge.

3. Admittedly, if I miss an opportunity, I have a bad habit of changing the lens thinking I don't want to miss the opportunity again, even when I know full well that the opportunity is passed. Lately, I'm forcing myself into one lens when out locally in an effort to teach myself to work with what I have available. It goes back to my answer for #1.

4. I'm too much an amateur and hobbyist to know what a good keeper rate is. For myself, I am happy if my keeper rate is around 20%, and sadly that is what I shoot for. I'm trying to shoot less with more thought to improve my keeper rate. At the same time, I'm trying to learn to be more self-critical so that I'm not keeping too many marginal shots. I hate throwing things away even when I know they aren't great. I hate post-processing, yet I keep photos thinking I'll want to save them or that saving them will take a bad photo to great (rarely happens, if ever).

5. I've learned a bit from photography books, but I learned more from them when I knew less. I think the books can be good when it comes to the basics, but as it gets to more advanced topics, I find the returns are minimal. I learned a lot from Understanding Exposure and Understanding Flash, both Bryan Peterson books. The first book helped me as I got back into DSLR photography (after a 10 year hiatus from film SLR photography). The flash book was for finally getting myself into shape with using a flash, although that book I found to be of mixed usefulness. It was too centered on his Nikon flash and felt a bit dated with respect to emphasizing film photography and flash there. Otherwise, I find I learn more from blogs and this forum than anything else.

6. I'm not sure I entirely understand the question, but I find I have a two part method that can make a difference. The first part is the color balance and contrast. Those are often a few tweaks that make a huge difference. I shoot RAW, and they often determine whether a marginal image can remain a keeper or not. The next step is the sharpness and noise reduction. Based on my method of tossing images out for lack of sharpness or focus, these are usually minor tweaks that rarely make a difference on whether I keep an image or not, but they do often take a photo from good to great. As I print more, I'm learning that the noise reduction isn't terribly important given my camera's iso performance. Monitors seem to show noise more than prints ever do.

[MSL]

First off, thank you to everyone who has responded. An amazing set of answers, and the sort of feedback I was looking for. Without trying to answer my own questions, here is a little bit of the thinking that has gone behind them.

1. I believe I now have some good to good+ glass in the form of A lenses (28, 35-105), SuperTaks (55/2, 135/3.5) and an F50/1.7 (which I picked up for a lot less than I should have, otherwise I wouldn't have). But it is hard when you see so many threads here about shots with limiteds, or 1.4 glass, or other exotic lenses to wonder whether instead of buying lots of okay glass, I should just focus on getting one high end lens. It isn't envy of those who have spent a fortune building a lens collection, rather a recognition of trading off between a flexible bunch of tools vs. having one or two great tools, but only those tools.

4. On keeper rates - I guess I should have added a bit more info. By nature I'm not a risk taker. This is alleviated when shooting digital over film, where mistakes don't cost you anything. Of late I've been shooting a lot of hand held macro using extension tubes and no flash - so my keeper rate was getting down towards 5%. I started to wonder whether it was a bit like trying to build a modern house using only hand tools - was I simply trying too hard to do something that was only going to succeed by a small miracle. Adding flash to my shots helped - as did throwing a handkerchief over it to act as a diffuser - two ideas I pulled out from reading threads here. Sticking on the macro theme, I've seen some stunning images here of 2:1, 3:1 or other greater than 1:1 magnifications, but on one thread you got to see all the lighting equipment needed to make that happen, and suddenly it made sense why that photographer could take that sort of image and I couldn't. So my keeper rate question was as much about how much preplanning goes into some photos and also how much risk taking folks do as they try to push their skill to limits or simply click the shutter to see if something works. In my view, exposure bracketing falls a bit into this category. Most of the times I've tried it, it was the properly exposed image that looked best, but on a few occasions, it was the adjusted version that had that little something extra.

Hope these ramblings make some sense, and thanks again. Nice to see this thread still attracting replies now and then and I hope the discussion process has been of interest to others.

Marc

[slackercruster]

1. Do you need to invest in great glass to be a great photographer (or to take great pictures)? The analogy that comes to mind is hand tools vs. power tools. In some cases the latter lets you do things faster/cleaner/easier but in other cases they let you do things that can't be done by hand.But on the flip side, it is easy to afford a cheap drill, saw and clamps whereas if all you buy is ONE expensive power tool you can do that step great, but nothing else. I appreciate this depends on how wide a range of subjects you want to shoot, but that is something I'm still exploring.


No, cheap glass can take good photos of many styles, but not all styles.




2. When you view brilliant photos by other shooters do you find it inspiring or frustrating (because you don't think you can accomplish the same level of achievement)? Does your reaction change if the photo is in a style that you tend to shoot or don't shoot at all?

Insired to enjoy and sometimes jealous too. Yes it changes some if it is not in my style


3. How do you deal with missed opportunities? For example, if you've got your 28mm lens on the camera, and some interesting action starts happening that needs a 200 mm, do you switch lenses or just go back and focus on the style of shooting you planned to do with the 28?

Suck it up, no photog get 100% of the action


4. What is a good keeper rate (and I appreciate this will vary depending of the difficulty of the subject matter so that should be included as part of the answer)?

I used to hope for 1 great shot per 36 exp roll. Soemtiems would not get much for weeks on end. Soemtimes would get 3 or 4 per roll. Just depends.



5. How much can you really learn from reading a photography book? If there answer is a lot, which book? (I'm busy plowing through the offerings our library has, but the first one I looked at quickly, Bryan Peterson's "Learning to See Creatively", seemed like a good book but didn't seem to offer me much.


Tons. Read and go blast away. You learn the most by shooting.


6. When you post process images, do you find the improvements come in a linear fashion, or non-linear. In other words, do you find that each tweak improves image a bit in a gradual way, or do you find the first few tweaks you make have the greatest effect, or do you find that the image only goes from various levels of "good" to being "great" when you apply the last few tweaks, or when you adjust certain parameters to a very narrow range of values?

I don't know. I'm just learning about PP. Started a couple months ago. Could not figure out how to even get an image on LR, so ask the old timers. But from your post, sounds like you are an overthinker. Just read up and go shoot.