Hyper TAv, M, Av, Tv, Sv, Bulb and X?

Mareket · 05-01-2012, 02:09 PM

I've been using P mode a lot lately, and whilst it ends up being much more responsive and adjustable than M or TAv mode, I can't adjust shutter and aperture at the same time, and this got me thinking.

The K-5 has a green button that resets exposure values to the P-Line, if you've got it set up like that. And you can adjust the wheels to set aperture or shutter speed. And then the exposure compensation and iso values can be changed by holding the buttons down and using the wheels. Pressing the green button whilst holding the button down returns the exposure compensation to 0, and the iso to auto. All's good and sorted.

Now, what if you could change both the aperture AND the shutter speed in Program mode? To give a sort of, Hyper TAv mode. Or, with a fixed ISO, it'd give Manual mode. Press the green button and you're back to P mode. And then using either of the wheels gives you Tv and Av. Again, at any point the green button can be pressed to get you back to P mode.

Being able to access every exposure program mode from P mode would be fantastic. You could overcome sudden changes so quickly with a quick twist of either dial. The memory could be set to remember the setting on each after you adjusted, so that if, say you were in Hyper TAv mode, and you pressed green but wanted to go back to the aperture you were using, just turning the AV dial would set you back to what you were using in TAv mode, but without a fixed shutter speed.

I'm not sure if this is the best section for this kind of thing, but it's an interesting idea, and because of the green button, I think it's something that only Pentax cameras could really pull off. And it could always be disabled in a menu.

And then adding a Movie record button would get you straight into movie mode. It'd be insanely easy to get to anything straight away.You'd be, at most, 3 or 4 clicks away from your desired exposure mode without moving either hand.

Thanks again Green Button...

amoringello · 05-01-2012, 02:21 PM

You can adjust ISO, Shutter and Aperture, in P mode, but the other will adjust to keep the same determined exposure.
i.e. if you adjust the shutter speed up a stop, either the aperture or ISO will adjust down a stop where possible to maintain the same exposure.

You can use the Ev [+/1] button to force exposure up or down a bit, but the camera will decide for you whether the ISO, shutter or exposure will be modified to do so.

It almost sounds like you are ready to leave P mode and get into the Av or Tv settings as what you're stating, I believe, already exists.
In all these modes, the green button is there to bounce you back to a safe setting determined by the camera. From which you can then make more fine tuned adjustments.

Maybe I'm mis-understanding?

**Ash** · 05-01-2012, 02:24 PM

The green button is definitely handy, and can be customised to your liking according to your camera mode (see the e-dial programming menu option). But I'm not sure I follow the rationale behind your desire for a P mode on every other mode. P mode is only a flip of the mode wheel away, and you're back in action pointing and shooting. But TAv mode is for more control - and green button in that mode can be set for a P mode auto-exposure response at the stroke of the button.

Switching modes brings you back to the settings you had when you left the mode. I think this is good, but the option to move to another mode and keep existing settings (that aren't made variable by switching modes) would be an added bonus.

Adding a dedicated movie recording mode would probably be superfluous, though.

Mareket · 05-01-2012, 02:54 PM

It's not a desire for more P-modes, and I've left Manual, TAv and Av recently for Program, because I can use Hyper Av really easily and adjusting ISO on the K-5 is simple as anything, so I don't generally find much use for TAv, and only use Manual when lighting is changing rapidly, for stage shows and all that.

I'm thinking about the diea of being able to go straight from P mode to any other mode by turning AV and Tv wheels, instead of the mode dial.

So, say I'm in P mode. Normally, a turn of either dial will take me into Hyper Av or Tv mode. Fantastic, I love this. But I want more.

If I turn the Av wheel, and then the Tv wheel, it aborts Av and goes into Tv instead. I'm saying, why not go into TAv if you adjust the Av and Tv wheel? Giving you a Hyper TAv mode straight from Program.

And then if you're in Hyper TAv, with the press of a button you can go from Auto ISO to fixed, which would obviously give you Manual Mode. Alternatively, fixing the ISO originally, you'd go from Av to Manual by setting both wheels.

So, from P-mode, you can do the following:

P Mode -> Turn Av Dial -> Hyper Av Mode

P Mode -> Turn Tv Dial -> Hyper Tv Mode

P Mode (Auto ISO) -> Turn Tv Dial -> Hyper Tv Mode -> Turn Av Dial -> Hyper TAv Mode

P Mode (Fixed ISO)-> Turn Tv Dial -> Hyper Tv Mode -> Turn Av Dial -> Hyper M Mode

At any point the green button takes you back to P.

And so on.

I just kind of hate the mode wheel. P mode lets me access pretty much all the modes, EXCEPT TAv and Manual, so I'm pining for a Hyper TAv and Hyper M mode.

My K-5 is in it's box at the moment as it's going to the vets soon, but My K-x doesn't let you get from Tv or Hyper Tv to Bulb Mode, this would also be really handy.

HYPER EVERYTHING!

And yeah a movie button would take up room, but it'd be handy. Jump into a movie with your current settings, or the closest possible. Very handy.

amoringello · 05-01-2012, 03:28 PM

Yeah, OK.
Any adjustment you make on one dial is intended to adjust the others in sync. Anything els defeats the purpose of the P mode.
It is not meant to allow specific modification of more than one item. That is what M mode is for.
The others are there to set one setting to a static value, allowing the others to mold themselves to get a valid exposure.

All of the program modes (P, Av, Tv, Sv, Tav) are meant to maintain a "proper" exposure by the camera when a user adjustment is made to one or more settings.
Its is just that the latter allow locking in one such as shutter via Tv, aperture via AV, etc... so that some you are in control of certain aspects.

i.e. in P mode, you don't necessarily know what Aperture and Shutter will result when you point your camera at a subject.
If you require a specific non-changing shutter, you use Tv, if you require a specific non-changing Aperture, you use Av.
(I know you know this, just iterating my point, sorry, don't mean to treat you like an idiot)

Only the Manual mode allows total customization to one setting without automatically adjusting another.

It really is a smart, and I feel intuitive series of operational modes.

Mareket · 05-01-2012, 04:22 PM

I know all that and it's fine, you're not being condescending or anything.

P mode is for general exposure control without any priority given to any one specific aspect of exposure, and as you say, it's not meant to offer loads of control. But Hyper Av and Hyper Tv mean that P mode can give you control if you want it, so that you can go from P mode to Tv straight away, without moving to Tv mode. In this way you CAN know what aperture or shutter speed P mode is going to use when you point the camera at something.

I just find it a bit odd that you can't adjust shutter speed AND aperture in Program mode, to give Hyper TAv or Hyper M modes. I've only recently moved to using Hyper Av/Tv modes but they're incredibly useful. Especially with the K-5's quick access to ISO settings. It just felt like such an obvious oversight to only allow one changing setting in a Hyper mode.

05-01-2012, 02:09 PM	#1
Mareket Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Chester Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 719	Hyper TAv, M, Av, Tv, Sv, Bulb and X? I've been using P mode a lot lately, and whilst it ends up being much more responsive and adjustable than M or TAv mode, I can't adjust shutter and aperture at the same time, and this got me thinking. The K-5 has a green button that resets exposure values to the P-Line, if you've got it set up like that. And you can adjust the wheels to set aperture or shutter speed. And then the exposure compensation and iso values can be changed by holding the buttons down and using the wheels. Pressing the green button whilst holding the button down returns the exposure compensation to 0, and the iso to auto. All's good and sorted. Now, what if you could change both the aperture AND the shutter speed in Program mode? To give a sort of, Hyper TAv mode. Or, with a fixed ISO, it'd give Manual mode. Press the green button and you're back to P mode. And then using either of the wheels gives you Tv and Av. Again, at any point the green button can be pressed to get you back to P mode. Being able to access every exposure program mode from P mode would be fantastic. You could overcome sudden changes so quickly with a quick twist of either dial. The memory could be set to remember the setting on each after you adjusted, so that if, say you were in Hyper TAv mode, and you pressed green but wanted to go back to the aperture you were using, just turning the AV dial would set you back to what you were using in TAv mode, but without a fixed shutter speed. I'm not sure if this is the best section for this kind of thing, but it's an interesting idea, and because of the green button, I think it's something that only Pentax cameras could really pull off. And it could always be disabled in a menu. And then adding a Movie record button would get you straight into movie mode. It'd be insanely easy to get to anything straight away.You'd be, at most, 3 or 4 clicks away from your desired exposure mode without moving either hand. Thanks again Green Button...

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05-01-2012, 02:21 PM	#2
amoringello Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,562	You can adjust ISO, Shutter and Aperture, in P mode, but the other will adjust to keep the same determined exposure. i.e. if you adjust the shutter speed up a stop, either the aperture or ISO will adjust down a stop where possible to maintain the same exposure. You can use the Ev [+/1] button to force exposure up or down a bit, but the camera will decide for you whether the ISO, shutter or exposure will be modified to do so. It almost sounds like you are ready to leave P mode and get into the Av or Tv settings as what you're stating, I believe, already exists. In all these modes, the green button is there to bounce you back to a safe setting determined by the camera. From which you can then make more fine tuned adjustments. Maybe I'm mis-understanding?

05-01-2012, 02:24 PM	#3
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	The green button is definitely handy, and can be customised to your liking according to your camera mode (see the e-dial programming menu option). But I'm not sure I follow the rationale behind your desire for a P mode on every other mode. P mode is only a flip of the mode wheel away, and you're back in action pointing and shooting. But TAv mode is for more control - and green button in that mode can be set for a P mode auto-exposure response at the stroke of the button. Switching modes brings you back to the settings you had when you left the mode. I think this is good, but the option to move to another mode and keep existing settings (that aren't made variable by switching modes) would be an added bonus. Adding a dedicated movie recording mode would probably be superfluous, though.

05-01-2012, 02:54 PM	#4
Mareket Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Chester Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 719 Original Poster	It's not a desire for more P-modes, and I've left Manual, TAv and Av recently for Program, because I can use Hyper Av really easily and adjusting ISO on the K-5 is simple as anything, so I don't generally find much use for TAv, and only use Manual when lighting is changing rapidly, for stage shows and all that. I'm thinking about the diea of being able to go straight from P mode to any other mode by turning AV and Tv wheels, instead of the mode dial. So, say I'm in P mode. Normally, a turn of either dial will take me into Hyper Av or Tv mode. Fantastic, I love this. But I want more. If I turn the Av wheel, and then the Tv wheel, it aborts Av and goes into Tv instead. I'm saying, why not go into TAv if you adjust the Av and Tv wheel? Giving you a Hyper TAv mode straight from Program. And then if you're in Hyper TAv, with the press of a button you can go from Auto ISO to fixed, which would obviously give you Manual Mode. Alternatively, fixing the ISO originally, you'd go from Av to Manual by setting both wheels. So, from P-mode, you can do the following: P Mode -> Turn Av Dial -> Hyper Av Mode P Mode -> Turn Tv Dial -> Hyper Tv Mode P Mode (Auto ISO) -> Turn Tv Dial -> Hyper Tv Mode -> Turn Av Dial -> Hyper TAv Mode P Mode (Fixed ISO)-> Turn Tv Dial -> Hyper Tv Mode -> Turn Av Dial -> Hyper M Mode At any point the green button takes you back to P. And so on. I just kind of hate the mode wheel. P mode lets me access pretty much all the modes, EXCEPT TAv and Manual, so I'm pining for a Hyper TAv and Hyper M mode. My K-5 is in it's box at the moment as it's going to the vets soon, but My K-x doesn't let you get from Tv or Hyper Tv to Bulb Mode, this would also be really handy. HYPER EVERYTHING! And yeah a movie button would take up room, but it'd be handy. Jump into a movie with your current settings, or the closest possible. Very handy.

05-01-2012, 03:28 PM	#5
amoringello Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,562	Yeah, OK. Any adjustment you make on one dial is intended to adjust the others in sync. Anything els defeats the purpose of the P mode. It is not meant to allow specific modification of more than one item. That is what M mode is for. The others are there to set one setting to a static value, allowing the others to mold themselves to get a valid exposure. All of the program modes (P, Av, Tv, Sv, Tav) are meant to maintain a "proper" exposure by the camera when a user adjustment is made to one or more settings. Its is just that the latter allow locking in one such as shutter via Tv, aperture via AV, etc... so that some you are in control of certain aspects. i.e. in P mode, you don't necessarily know what Aperture and Shutter will result when you point your camera at a subject. If you require a specific non-changing shutter, you use Tv, if you require a specific non-changing Aperture, you use Av. (I know you know this, just iterating my point, sorry, don't mean to treat you like an idiot) Only the Manual mode allows total customization to one setting without automatically adjusting another. It really is a smart, and I feel intuitive series of operational modes.

05-01-2012, 04:22 PM	#6
Mareket Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Chester Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 719 Original Poster	I know all that and it's fine, you're not being condescending or anything. P mode is for general exposure control without any priority given to any one specific aspect of exposure, and as you say, it's not meant to offer loads of control. But Hyper Av and Hyper Tv mean that P mode can give you control if you want it, so that you can go from P mode to Tv straight away, without moving to Tv mode. In this way you CAN know what aperture or shutter speed P mode is going to use when you point the camera at something. I just find it a bit odd that you can't adjust shutter speed AND aperture in Program mode, to give Hyper TAv or Hyper M modes. I've only recently moved to using Hyper Av/Tv modes but they're incredibly useful. Especially with the K-5's quick access to ISO settings. It just felt like such an obvious oversight to only allow one changing setting in a Hyper mode.