Need help improving macro photos

ubizubi · 05-05-2012, 12:25 PM

I'm really happy with the Tamron SP 90mm f2.8 macro I recently bought from a member here but I'm having trouble wrangling with balancing DOF and having enough light that the shutter speed doesn't have to be too low. I'm primarily trying to photograph honey bees, which are pretty small.

How far stopped down do people usually shoot something that small with a 1:1 macro? Much below f9 and it seemed like the photos started getting worse. It was a really sunny day and an external flash didn't seem to help much. Maybe 3/4" is just too much DOF to hope for when I'm dealing with that high a magnification?

Any thoughts/suggestions/links to helpful tutorials?

I'm happy with what I've taken so far but feel like I might be missing something obvious. A few samples below, both taken at f/9:

bee cleaning her tongue

bee at rest (might be a bit front focused?)

GabrielFFontes · 05-05-2012, 01:24 PM

You need a flash...its essential
The first pic is pretty nice btw, just crop it a little and increase the local contrast!

**Ash** · 05-05-2012, 01:58 PM

Get closer, get down to the subject's level, stop down more. The need for DoF increases exponentially the close you get to the subject.
Flash is indeed important, given that ambient light is barely enough the more you stop down.

tsakatsaka · 05-05-2012, 02:17 PM

I'm new in macro also but with tamron 90 and good light I stop down to f13 or even f20 without losing in quality

bluestringer · 05-05-2012, 03:27 PM

What helped me the most was when I got a ring flash. I just can not hand hold anymore, too shaky, and the SR doesn't help much at macro distances. With the ring flash I can get good detail and DOF.

ubizubi · 05-05-2012, 04:40 PM

Ok, so where should the flash be? Mounted on the camera it would cause a shadow.

I have a Metz 50 AF-1 which I really like, but when the lens is about an inch or two from the subject (or less even), i put the flash in slave mode on a little hotshoe stand (not sure what it's called, a little piece of plastic with a hotshoe on it) to the side of the subject but it didn't seem to make much difference. Maybe I need to play with the settings a bit more or make the flash less diffuse.

I'll definitely try again stopping down further. I've got a little tripod I can use (since the hive is close to ground level the camera needs to be down low to get the bees by the entrance of the hive, but they just don't hold still very long around the hive.

Thanks to all for the advice

ubizubi · 05-05-2012, 04:51 PM

Good call on the contrast. Thanks. I'm reluctant to do much PP but that looks like it will make a big difference. I'll have to fiddle around in Aperture to get it right.

Originally posted by GabrielFFontes

You need a flash...its essential
The first pic is pretty nice btw, just crop it a little and increase the local contrast!

GabrielFFontes · 05-05-2012, 05:15 PM

Check out, ubizubi :

I think it improves the pic a lot!

bluestringer · 05-05-2012, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by ubizubi

Ok, so where should the flash be? Mounted on the camera it would cause a shadow.

I have a Metz 50 AF-1 which I really like, but when the lens is about an inch or two from the subject (or less even), i put the flash in slave mode on a little hotshoe stand (not sure what it's called, a little piece of plastic with a hotshoe on it) to the side of the subject but it didn't seem to make much difference. Maybe I need to play with the settings a bit more or make the flash less diffuse.

I'll definitely try again stopping down further. I've got a little tripod I can use (since the hive is close to ground level the camera needs to be down low to get the bees by the entrance of the hive, but they just don't hold still very long around the hive.

Thanks to all for the advice

Yes, you need to diffuse the flash. With a ring flash it is already diffused and produces a soft shadow. It connects to the end of the lens.

hangman43 · 05-06-2012, 10:38 AM

With my homemade Pringles can snoot diffuser I shoot most at F/16 to F/22 with my ring flash I will sometimes shoot at F/32 it is all about getting enough light and also where you place your subject in the DOF sometimes I have to shoot in portrait mode to get all in focus.

ubizubi · 05-12-2012, 05:20 PM

Ok, I finally got time to play around some more. This time with my flash and stopped down to f/32. That might be a bit far but it definitely shows me what's possible. I can tell that this is going to be fun. The pringles can snoot sounds pretty awesome too

link

hangman43 · 05-12-2012, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by ubizubi

Ok, I finally got time to play around some more. This time with my flash and stopped down to f/32. That might be a bit far but it definitely shows me what's possible. I can tell that this is going to be fun. The pringles can snoot sounds pretty awesome too

link

This is what it looks like it has foil on the inside and have different material cut to the size that will fit under the lid to diffuse works pretty good I can get f/22 with this set up. I can get f/32 with the ring flash but get some purple fringing on some shots at f/32.

Blue · 05-13-2012, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by bluestringer

Yes, you need to diffuse the flash. With a ring flash it is already diffused and produces a soft shadow. It connects to the end of the lens.

Some ring flashes have an option to set diffusers or no diffusers. Plus, some allow you to fire either side or both as well as adjust the intensity.

D0n · 05-13-2012, 09:15 AM

getting up close is one thing... but finding the subject that is doing something interesting, is also vital..
lastly, when using flash or ring flash, remember you always got two light sources, ambient and the flash... I prefer to use my ringflash to control contrast and make the ambient light the main light in most cases.

joe.penn · 05-13-2012, 09:47 AM

FYR: Image quality will deteriorate pretty quickly after stopping down past the sweet spot of the lens, really good results are had up to about f/13 (that's stretching it a little to, f/11 has been somewhat of my ceiling). Once you start stopping down past this mark, you start to get diffraction which in return correlates to severe loss in contrast and frame resolution (which leads to poor IQ and sharpness). If your presentation medium for your macro shots is only screen, then you can get good DOF shots with great IQ by backing out to 1:2 and cropping down in post...

05-05-2012, 12:25 PM	#1
ubizubi Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery Posts: 28	Need help improving macro photos I'm really happy with the Tamron SP 90mm f2.8 macro I recently bought from a member here but I'm having trouble wrangling with balancing DOF and having enough light that the shutter speed doesn't have to be too low. I'm primarily trying to photograph honey bees, which are pretty small. How far stopped down do people usually shoot something that small with a 1:1 macro? Much below f9 and it seemed like the photos started getting worse. It was a really sunny day and an external flash didn't seem to help much. Maybe 3/4" is just too much DOF to hope for when I'm dealing with that high a magnification? Any thoughts/suggestions/links to helpful tutorials? I'm happy with what I've taken so far but feel like I might be missing something obvious. A few samples below, both taken at f/9: bee cleaning her tongue bee at rest (might be a bit front focused?)

05-12-2012, 05:20 PM	#11
ubizubi Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery Posts: 28 Original Poster	Ok, I finally got time to play around some more. This time with my flash and stopped down to f/32. That might be a bit far but it definitely shows me what's possible. I can tell that this is going to be fun. The pringles can snoot sounds pretty awesome too link Last edited by ubizubi; 05-12-2012 at 05:20 PM. Reason: misspelled snoot

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05-05-2012, 01:24 PM	#2
GabrielFFontes Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Posts: 647	You need a flash...its essential The first pic is pretty nice btw, just crop it a little and increase the local contrast!

05-05-2012, 01:58 PM	#3
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Get closer, get down to the subject's level, stop down more. The need for DoF increases exponentially the close you get to the subject. Flash is indeed important, given that ambient light is barely enough the more you stop down.

05-05-2012, 02:17 PM	#4
tsakatsaka Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Athens, Greece Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 236	I'm new in macro also but with tamron 90 and good light I stop down to f13 or even f20 without losing in quality

05-05-2012, 03:27 PM	#5
bluestringer Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Cotton fields of South Georgia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,748	What helped me the most was when I got a ring flash. I just can not hand hold anymore, too shaky, and the SR doesn't help much at macro distances. With the ring flash I can get good detail and DOF.

05-05-2012, 04:40 PM	#6
ubizubi Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery Posts: 28 Original Poster	Ok, so where should the flash be? Mounted on the camera it would cause a shadow. I have a Metz 50 AF-1 which I really like, but when the lens is about an inch or two from the subject (or less even), i put the flash in slave mode on a little hotshoe stand (not sure what it's called, a little piece of plastic with a hotshoe on it) to the side of the subject but it didn't seem to make much difference. Maybe I need to play with the settings a bit more or make the flash less diffuse. I'll definitely try again stopping down further. I've got a little tripod I can use (since the hive is close to ground level the camera needs to be down low to get the bees by the entrance of the hive, but they just don't hold still very long around the hive. Thanks to all for the advice

05-05-2012, 04:51 PM	#7
ubizubi Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery Posts: 28 Original Poster	Good call on the contrast. Thanks. I'm reluctant to do much PP but that looks like it will make a big difference. I'll have to fiddle around in Aperture to get it right. Originally posted by GabrielFFontes You need a flash...its essential The first pic is pretty nice btw, just crop it a little and increase the local contrast!

05-05-2012, 05:15 PM	#8
GabrielFFontes Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Posts: 647	Check out, ubizubi : I think it improves the pic a lot!

05-05-2012, 06:45 PM	#9
bluestringer Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Cotton fields of South Georgia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,748	Originally posted by ubizubi Ok, so where should the flash be? Mounted on the camera it would cause a shadow. I have a Metz 50 AF-1 which I really like, but when the lens is about an inch or two from the subject (or less even), i put the flash in slave mode on a little hotshoe stand (not sure what it's called, a little piece of plastic with a hotshoe on it) to the side of the subject but it didn't seem to make much difference. Maybe I need to play with the settings a bit more or make the flash less diffuse. I'll definitely try again stopping down further. I've got a little tripod I can use (since the hive is close to ground level the camera needs to be down low to get the bees by the entrance of the hive, but they just don't hold still very long around the hive. Thanks to all for the advice Yes, you need to diffuse the flash. With a ring flash it is already diffused and produces a soft shadow. It connects to the end of the lens.

05-06-2012, 10:38 AM	#10
hangman43 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Hueytown, Alabama Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,508	With my homemade Pringles can snoot diffuser I shoot most at F/16 to F/22 with my ring flash I will sometimes shoot at F/32 it is all about getting enough light and also where you place your subject in the DOF sometimes I have to shoot in portrait mode to get all in focus.

05-12-2012, 06:42 PM	#12
hangman43 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Hueytown, Alabama Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,508	Originally posted by ubizubi Ok, I finally got time to play around some more. This time with my flash and stopped down to f/32. That might be a bit far but it definitely shows me what's possible. I can tell that this is going to be fun. The pringles can snoot sounds pretty awesome too link This is what it looks like it has foil on the inside and have different material cut to the size that will fit under the lid to diffuse works pretty good I can get f/22 with this set up. I can get f/32 with the ring flash but get some purple fringing on some shots at f/32.

05-13-2012, 09:12 AM	#13
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by bluestringer Yes, you need to diffuse the flash. With a ring flash it is already diffused and produces a soft shadow. It connects to the end of the lens. Some ring flashes have an option to set diffusers or no diffusers. Plus, some allow you to fire either side or both as well as adjust the intensity.

05-13-2012, 09:15 AM	#14
D0n Banned Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 530	getting up close is one thing... but finding the subject that is doing something interesting, is also vital.. lastly, when using flash or ring flash, remember you always got two light sources, ambient and the flash... I prefer to use my ringflash to control contrast and make the ambient light the main light in most cases.

05-13-2012, 09:47 AM	#15
joe.penn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Maryland (Right Outside Washington DC) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,902	FYR: Image quality will deteriorate pretty quickly after stopping down past the sweet spot of the lens, really good results are had up to about f/13 (that's stretching it a little to, f/11 has been somewhat of my ceiling). Once you start stopping down past this mark, you start to get diffraction which in return correlates to severe loss in contrast and frame resolution (which leads to poor IQ and sharpness). If your presentation medium for your macro shots is only screen, then you can get good DOF shots with great IQ by backing out to 1:2 and cropping down in post...