Video and Photo Apps Are Ruining Photography

RioRico · 05-17-2012, 03:47 PM

Video and Photo Apps Are Ruining Photography | John C. Dvorak | PCMag.com

Quote:

Why do people insist on mucking up perfectly fine photos and videos with slipshod filters?

Someone pointed out to me that the New York Times, one of the most respected news operations in the world, is worth less than Instagram, the schlock photo-sharing app. What's wrong with this picture?

Well, for starters, the picture was probably taken with Instagram.

125 years ago, it was handheld cameras that ruined phoitography. 50 years ago, it was Instamatics. Now it's digi-apps. How much further can photography be ruined? Have you ruined any photos lately?

NOTE: My profile here says my interests include "capturing and torturing sounds and images". Is that so wrong? Have you tortured any media files lately? Why not?

**MSL** · 05-17-2012, 03:58 PM

Dvorak is right in that there is a race to the bottom, and the desire to do things quickly and for free is opening up opportunities for the masses and lowering the quality of what is being produced, or perhaps more accurately lowering the average quality of what is being produced. But there is still a market for Rolls Royces and other fine, hand tooled cars, and there will still be a market for well produced images. He has his writing style and opinions and you have yours and I know which I will spend more of my time reading.

bobmaxja · 05-17-2012, 04:00 PM

Everybody now is a publisher

**jatrax** · 05-17-2012, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by RioRico

Have you ruined any photos lately?

Not yet, though I did mangle several yesterday. However, that is my lack of talent and has nothing to do with the hardware or anything else.

**RobA_Oz** · 05-17-2012, 04:59 PM

Dvorak does have a point, but I don't think he articulated it very well. It's hard to make a case like this without it sounding like the worst form of elitism (the unjustifiable self-aggrandising form, that is) and Dvorak made his name writing about IT matters, not aesthetic ones, so it's understandable if he missed the mark a bit.

Bad photos can be taken with any sort of camera, as can good ones. Digital manipulation, likewise, can be used to enhance or degrade an image. What has changed with apps like Instagram is the promotion of the idea that anyone can make great photos without effort, and it simply isn't true, except for the occasional fluke. It also adds to the notion that nothing has to be respected because great art is now in the hands of everyone, at no cost. That, however, is just a part of the modern disease of trivialising any form of artistic talent. It's very democratic, like Rap music, but it doesn't encourage the development of artistic excellence, just self-promotion.

Does it matter? Probably not. Will it encourage some people to develop picture-making skills? Possibly, but I can't help feeling that it's a bit like monkeys and typewriters, in that respect.

**boriscleto** · 05-17-2012, 05:34 PM

Dvorak is still alive?

RioRico · 05-17-2012, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

Dvorak is still alive?

Yes... unlike his keyboard.

mtansley · 05-17-2012, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by RioRico

Yes... unlike his keyboard.

Actually, John Dvorak didn't come up with that infamous keyboard.

Dvorak Simplified Keyboard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

**LaurenOE** · 05-17-2012, 06:27 PM

He's probably right - and I'm loving it, because it opens up the door to great photography!
I thought the Lytro camera might be a real threat to photography, but after seeing one tested and in action, technology is not going to replace good photographs anytime soon.
I'm waiting for the HDR craze to die out as that is my pet peeve right now.

RioRico · 05-17-2012, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by mtansley

Actually, John Dvorak didn't come up with that infamous keyboard.

What, and he didn't write the NEW WORLD SYMPHONY either?!?!? Oh bother.

mtansley · 05-17-2012, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by RioRico

What, and he didn't write the NEW WORLD SYMPHONY either?!?!? Oh bother.

I generally take any wikipedia reference with a grain of salt but I do remember discovering how the keyboard and him aren't related except that switching to the dvorak keyboard and reading his articles can result in annoyance and irritation.

Edit: [5 minutes later] I just remembered who wrote the New World Symphony.

VoiceOfReason · 05-21-2012, 08:52 AM

When people see my pictures, and compare them to theirs taken with a P&S or a phone, they will ask me how I got mine to look "like they are in high definition" so I tell them it's the camera and lenses I use. I've gotten a couple of people to pick up a Kr kit because of that. I've also had multiple people tell me I should make calendars or photobooks and sell them because they would love one. I have no idea where to go for that though. So, I really think that while people like the "instand" thing, there are plenty out there that like quality.

**jatrax** · 05-21-2012, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by VoiceOfReason

I should make calendars or photobooks and sell them because they would love one. I have no idea where to go for that though.

There are a number of photographers doing that here and selling at the local farmer's markets. I have no idea if they make any money though. Getting them done is easy enough, my wife has had photobooks of family vacations made and given as presents to everyone who went along. Lots of places on the web do this quite reasonably. LR4 has a built in photobook application with connection to an online printer. But MPIX, Shutterfly, and a bunch of others will do the work.

Alliecat · 05-22-2012, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by VoiceOfReason

I've also had multiple people tell me I should make calendars or photobooks and sell them because they would love one. I have no idea where to go for that though.

Shutterfly. Gorgeous 8x8 hardcovers; pretty nice 7x9 paperbacks although they don't stand up to handling as well. They frequently have sales, discounts, coupons, & you can often find coupon codes on eBay too. The calendars are less often on sale.
Most products are not priced for resale. It's not worth doing if you have to pay $30+ for a hardcover book plus shipping, or $20 for a paperback. Nobody's going to pay much of a markup on that. Fortunately the coupons & sales are frequent. I recommend designing your book & getting it ready to go, then wait for a sale & place your order then.
BTW, if you are planning to sell them at markets or stores or somehow make more than just a few for family & friends, you will likely need an ISBN for the books.
In Canada I use Staples for calendars; they occasionally have a 50% sale which is the only time the price is right.
I spent a lot of time wandering around the internet looking up photobook producers; Shutterfly has the best prices.

VoiceOfReason · 05-22-2012, 10:58 AM

Thanks for the recommendations. I am definitely goign to look into them.

05-17-2012, 03:47 PM	#1
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Video and Photo Apps Are Ruining Photography Video and Photo Apps Are Ruining Photography \| John C. Dvorak \| PCMag.com Quote: Why do people insist on mucking up perfectly fine photos and videos with slipshod filters? Someone pointed out to me that the New York Times, one of the most respected news operations in the world, is worth less than Instagram, the schlock photo-sharing app. What's wrong with this picture? Well, for starters, the picture was probably taken with Instagram. 125 years ago, it was handheld cameras that ruined phoitography. 50 years ago, it was Instamatics. Now it's digi-apps. How much further can photography be ruined? Have you ruined any photos lately? NOTE: My profile here says my interests include "capturing and torturing sounds and images". Is that so wrong? Have you tortured any media files lately? Why not?

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05-17-2012, 03:58 PM	#2
MSL Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Greater Toronto Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,749	Dvorak is right in that there is a race to the bottom, and the desire to do things quickly and for free is opening up opportunities for the masses and lowering the quality of what is being produced, or perhaps more accurately lowering the average quality of what is being produced. But there is still a market for Rolls Royces and other fine, hand tooled cars, and there will still be a market for well produced images. He has his writing style and opinions and you have yours and I know which I will spend more of my time reading.

05-17-2012, 04:00 PM	#3
bobmaxja Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Laval, Quebec Canada Posts: 2,171	Everybody now is a publisher

05-17-2012, 04:03 PM	#4
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by RioRico Have you ruined any photos lately? Not yet, though I did mangle several yesterday. However, that is my lack of talent and has nothing to do with the hardware or anything else.

05-17-2012, 04:59 PM	#5
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,191	Dvorak does have a point, but I don't think he articulated it very well. It's hard to make a case like this without it sounding like the worst form of elitism (the unjustifiable self-aggrandising form, that is) and Dvorak made his name writing about IT matters, not aesthetic ones, so it's understandable if he missed the mark a bit. Bad photos can be taken with any sort of camera, as can good ones. Digital manipulation, likewise, can be used to enhance or degrade an image. What has changed with apps like Instagram is the promotion of the idea that anyone can make great photos without effort, and it simply isn't true, except for the occasional fluke. It also adds to the notion that nothing has to be respected because great art is now in the hands of everyone, at no cost. That, however, is just a part of the modern disease of trivialising any form of artistic talent. It's very democratic, like Rap music, but it doesn't encourage the development of artistic excellence, just self-promotion. Does it matter? Probably not. Will it encourage some people to develop picture-making skills? Possibly, but I can't help feeling that it's a bit like monkeys and typewriters, in that respect.

05-17-2012, 05:34 PM	#6
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,473	Dvorak is still alive?

05-17-2012, 05:46 PM	#7
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263 Original Poster	Originally posted by boriscleto Dvorak is still alive? Yes... unlike his keyboard.

05-17-2012, 06:00 PM	#8
mtansley Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Ajax, Ontario, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,139	Originally posted by RioRico Yes... unlike his keyboard. Actually, John Dvorak didn't come up with that infamous keyboard. Dvorak Simplified Keyboard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

05-17-2012, 06:27 PM	#9
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	He's probably right - and I'm loving it, because it opens up the door to great photography! I thought the Lytro camera might be a real threat to photography, but after seeing one tested and in action, technology is not going to replace good photographs anytime soon. I'm waiting for the HDR craze to die out as that is my pet peeve right now.

05-17-2012, 06:42 PM	#10
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263 Original Poster	Originally posted by mtansley Actually, John Dvorak didn't come up with that infamous keyboard. What, and he didn't write the NEW WORLD SYMPHONY either?!?!? Oh bother.

05-17-2012, 06:55 PM	#11
mtansley Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Ajax, Ontario, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,139	Originally posted by RioRico What, and he didn't write the NEW WORLD SYMPHONY either?!?!? Oh bother. I generally take any wikipedia reference with a grain of salt but I do remember discovering how the keyboard and him aren't related except that switching to the dvorak keyboard and reading his articles can result in annoyance and irritation. Edit: [5 minutes later] I just remembered who wrote the New World Symphony.

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05-21-2012, 08:52 AM	#12
VoiceOfReason Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mishawaka IN area Photos: Albums Posts: 6,124	When people see my pictures, and compare them to theirs taken with a P&S or a phone, they will ask me how I got mine to look "like they are in high definition" so I tell them it's the camera and lenses I use. I've gotten a couple of people to pick up a Kr kit because of that. I've also had multiple people tell me I should make calendars or photobooks and sell them because they would love one. I have no idea where to go for that though. So, I really think that while people like the "instand" thing, there are plenty out there that like quality.

05-21-2012, 06:18 PM	#13
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by VoiceOfReason I should make calendars or photobooks and sell them because they would love one. I have no idea where to go for that though. There are a number of photographers doing that here and selling at the local farmer's markets. I have no idea if they make any money though. Getting them done is easy enough, my wife has had photobooks of family vacations made and given as presents to everyone who went along. Lots of places on the web do this quite reasonably. LR4 has a built in photobook application with connection to an online printer. But MPIX, Shutterfly, and a bunch of others will do the work.

05-22-2012, 10:22 AM	#14
Alliecat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: East of Everywhere, Canada Posts: 740	Originally posted by VoiceOfReason I've also had multiple people tell me I should make calendars or photobooks and sell them because they would love one. I have no idea where to go for that though. Shutterfly. Gorgeous 8x8 hardcovers; pretty nice 7x9 paperbacks although they don't stand up to handling as well. They frequently have sales, discounts, coupons, & you can often find coupon codes on eBay too. The calendars are less often on sale. Most products are not priced for resale. It's not worth doing if you have to pay $30+ for a hardcover book plus shipping, or $20 for a paperback. Nobody's going to pay much of a markup on that. Fortunately the coupons & sales are frequent. I recommend designing your book & getting it ready to go, then wait for a sale & place your order then. BTW, if you are planning to sell them at markets or stores or somehow make more than just a few for family & friends, you will likely need an ISBN for the books. In Canada I use Staples for calendars; they occasionally have a 50% sale which is the only time the price is right. I spent a lot of time wandering around the internet looking up photobook producers; Shutterfly has the best prices.

05-22-2012, 10:58 AM	#15
VoiceOfReason Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mishawaka IN area Photos: Albums Posts: 6,124	Thanks for the recommendations. I am definitely goign to look into them.