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07-24-2012, 04:13 PM   #16
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Wow! I had better be careful.

After reading that site I see I could have been arrested as a sex offender for peeing in my garden.(Well, actually in a bottle.) Urine/ urea makes good fertilizer when you dilute it with about 10 x water. The cops would arrest me for fertilizing my garden. They would search my house and find Mary Ellen's American Odyssey, look at page 41 and I'd be locked up for 20 years!

07-24-2012, 10:07 PM   #17
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There is a move, Pretty Baby which starred a Young Susan Sarandan. The movie was about a turn of the century photographer in New Orleans and his subjects were around a brothel. It also had Brook Shields playing Sarandan's 12 year old daughter. I guess Shield's mom signed a legal waiver, but the film pushes the envelop, especially at the time it was filmed.
07-27-2012, 09:01 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I don't think people should assume that photos of naked children automatically constitute pornography,
There are people out there that believe that any representation of naked people is pornographic. I personally have a very liberal mindset when it comes to photography - but nude photographs of people younger than 18 - forget it, that is a line I refuse to cross.
07-27-2012, 09:17 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
There are people out there that believe that any representation of naked people is pornographic. I personally have a very liberal mindset when it comes to photography - but nude photographs of people younger than 18 - forget it, that is a line I refuse to cross.
In my reading of things, they are mainly people with a religious viewpoint to push, or politicians with an eye to capturing the votes of that group. There are also people traumatised by childhood abuse or their advocates, who are easy targets for unscrupulous vote-harvesting.

I have no interest in recording the bodies of pubescent teens, speaking personally, but there are some artists, including photographers, who do. Where that's the case, there are legal and ethical precautions to be taken, to ensure the artist's interests are not simply prurient, but no one can canvas the motivations of any viewer of the work.

It's worth noting that the artist Egon Schiele suffered mightily for painting teenage girls nude, about 100 years ago, but exhibitions of his works hang in various art galleries all over the world, now, without comment. Of course, that includes the town where he painted those subjects, but it wasn't in the US or Queensland.

07-27-2012, 09:55 PM   #20
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When I was a very little girl my Mom thought nothing of hauling me into the shower with her if I got stuff all over me and her while playing or eating. These days even a same sex relative who did that would likely face accusations of child molestation. In fact Dear Abby just chided a grandma for taking a bath with her granddaughter. Nothing weird was going on. They both just got very dirty, and rather than leave a 2 year old unsupervised while she took a bath she just took one with her and washed out her hair and stuff. But Abby went off on her for doing that. There comes an age where a child should put clothes on in company. Taking a bath with a kid that's old enough to know what a sex is? That is one thing. But to a 2 year old a naked body is no big thing. Heck when I was that age you couldn't hardly keep clothes on me. I used to drop mine and streak around naked at the first opportunity when it was just me and my Mom.

My Dad used to make me put my clothes back on. He's the type who blushes easily, still does, even now just seeing me in a sports bra or any top sans bra wigs him out. He's always yelling at me to go put more clothes on even when it's freakin 100 degrees outside. Goodness forbid I should to go the store around the corner sans a bra even in a top where you can't see much. To be fair I'm not exactly little up top. I don't usually go out in public sans a bra. To do that is to invite harassment around here, but I do walk around my own house in one of the thin cover up tie-dye dresses I have all the time. I do answer the door, get the mail et all, without running to put a bra on. That totally drives my Dad nuts when he's around, but that's his problem, and I don't tell him that my roommate is practically a nudist when he's not here besides.

She has a robe by the door, so do I, but when we're on our own I don't really care if the only thing she has on is panties. I do insist upon those for sanitary reasons but otherwise I really don't care. A naked body of any age doesn't really bother me and I don't think anything of a kid under the age of say 6 stripping down and running around. Older than that they probably should put something on outside their own room, but if a kid wants to strip and sit in the buff in their own bedroom I'm not saying anything. I don't want any kid to get that hung up over any naked body let alone their own.

I think being naked can be healthy for body image. Me, I never had an issue at all with mine at all until I started school and ballet and the other girls made snarky comments about me actually having hips and boobs before they did. Changing for gym and ballet? That became just hellish. I got very self conscious about being naked, my weight which was perfectly normal back then for my size, and in particular about my breast size and that's a real shame because that shouldn't happen, ever. Took me a long time to get over that.

I used to see Mom and Dad sans clothes once in a while when I was a kid. They used to sleep nude sometimes. It didn't warp me much I don't think. Dad was always quick to cover but Mom hated anything on her when she was hot except underwear and she'd walk around like that all the time when it was just us unless Dad caught her and yelled at her. She finally got some of those little vest t-shirts to wear to make him happy but I do really think she preferred being naked up top in the Summer. She took pics of me and the grand kids naked in the bath and with cookies all over us and stuff. On a fluffy rug when we were infants. But my Mom was no pervert. She just didn't have the hang ups my Dad has about nudity that's all. Naked baby butts were cute to her, not salacious.

Personally I think Pretty Baby was close to being porn. I've seen it. I don't think it was much of a film artistically speaking. Like Taxi Driver with Jodie Foster I think it's a lot more about the scandal of the kids being in it used in such a way than it is about actually being good movie making. Neither movie ranks well with me. B movies both of them, IMHO. I think that Brooke Shield's mother never should have allowed that. But that's her kid and she made her choice. I don't get that it affected Brooke Shields too negatively but still that's too close to child porn that movie for me and I wouldn't allow any child of mine at that age to do something like that. Now they'd use an adult petite body double or cut away from something like that. That bath scene? They'd get an X rating for that now and there would be a huge fuss like there was when Nicole Kidman made that one movie where she was in the bath with a kid.

After say 6 and until a person is 18 I don't think they should be photographed naked. I'm sure it can be perfectly innocent on a photographer's or film maker's part but what those photos or film can be used for can be a bit skeevy. Back when Brook Shields made Pretty Baby you didn't often see digitally enhanced naked shots of normal kids being used on child porn sites. You take an innocent artistic pic of your kid in the bath naked today and it could be on the internet tomorrow and all over the world for every pervert under the sun to digitally manipulate and make into something nasty. That changes the game a bit I think. You have to be more careful now with the internet and all. It's all a matter of intent though when you get down to it. One person's art can be another's porn.

Christa Meola was recently chided by some people for posing a women naked with a cigarette. This is the photo that completely wigged some people out. That got her some really nasty comments on her blog. (Not work safe, her site. Lots of boudoir work...) Personally I think this is a lot more art than porn, and I like her work a lot, but apparently some people didn't think so...

http://christameola.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/christa_meola_nude_boudoi...9,r:1,s:0,i:75

I don't even get wigged out about porn most of the time these days though. I don't like really truly violent or degrading stuff, or stuff involving kids or animals, but otherwise I don't care what people do in the privacy of their bedrooms and I don't think sexy pics of naked people or porn videos are somehow intrinsically bad. So long as everyone is legal, there of their own free will, and the acts portrayed are legal it's not my business what people get their kinks off of. Meola? She's pretty darned tame if you ask me. The people that harassed her really need to get a life if they think that is porn, lol.

Ditto buck naked baby pics et all. A 10 year old posing shirtless, yeah, that can be a bit questionable, but a toddler or a baby? You have got to have a really dirty mind to think that's porn unless there is some adult there clearly posing the kid in a really nasty way. Little kids love being naked and even flaunting it and there is nothing wrong with that. I don't show my naked baby pics around, but that's not because I think my parents were wrong to take them. I just don't particularly want the whole world to see them, that's all. I'm not ashamed of them. I actually just like to keep any photos of me private.

Last edited by magkelly; 07-27-2012 at 10:13 PM.
07-27-2012, 09:58 PM   #21
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I would not be too quick to rely on advice of forum lawyers.

Speaking of Brooke Shields movies, they packed the theaters. Now, many of them and similar movies could not be made today. I'm sure Vladimir Nabokov cringes in his grave for what the term "Lolita" has unfortunately come to be used.
07-27-2012, 11:52 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
Christa Meola was recently chided by some people for posing a women naked with a cigarette. This is the photo that completely wigged some people out. That got her some really nasty comments on her blog. (Not work safe, her site. Lots of boudoir work...) Personally I think this is a lot more art than porn, and I like her work a lot, but apparently some people didn't think so...

http://christameola.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/christa_meola_nude_boudoi...9,r:1,s:0,i:75
Damned tobacco lobby probably loves that one, not that I think that was the artist's motivation. Promoting cigarettes to pubescent boys (or girls)? Now that's child abuse.

07-28-2012, 05:09 AM   #23
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In vol one of:

Amazon.com: Art: 21 - Art in the 21st Century: Seasons One & Two: VARIOUS: Movies & TV

They had a segment on Sally Mann. She did a lot of nude pix of her young kids. She talked about it some, but didn't go into any details about problems from the photos. Was matter of fact like as to why she did it. They were just their and used to run around naked like she did when young, so she shot them. Whatever is around her - she shoots it.


...get it from your library.
07-28-2012, 05:37 AM   #24
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Well there's such a load of nonsense on this issue. Just because someone, somewhere, might find a picture a turn on, doesn't mean that the picture isn't valid art. If there's artistic justification, and the model isn't being exploited sexually, anything goes as far as I'm concerned. Are we worried about 'harm', or just our own personal revulsion?

In my family, growing up, everyone walked around naked at bathtime. I think me and my sister became more private at and after puberty of course, but not excessively so. And there was no lock on the bathroom door.
07-28-2012, 08:46 AM   #25
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I was able to find some info for this topic from Ohio. Other states were not so forthcoming with the information from a quick search.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.323
07-28-2012, 09:13 AM   #26
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Interesting. The list of 'proper persons' to distribute such images includes members of the clergy. Is this wise?

I can't think of a legitimate reason why members of the clergy should be singled out to be allowed to distribute such images.
07-28-2012, 09:22 AM   #27
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I didn't even read that. Clergy...what a joke!

I'm an ADD'er. I just gloss over stuff and even then it is only half-ass. That is why I ask questions here. Don't have the ability to study things up hard core. That is why I'm not a MD, lawyer or scientist. I like for the forum to dissect matters and give me the bottom line. Then I may have enuf energy and brain power to study up their verdict.

Found another site. Check out your own state if so inlcined.

Sex Laws

I will tell you one thing. I never knew sex offenses were such big biz. Sure I hear every other night on the TV news about sex offender A, b and c. But this area of laws really employs a lot of people. Esp the online sex offender legal end.

Now I read how the teens sexting are hitting the legal system in droves. That helps keep the politicians busy with new laws and more laws on top of that to remedy the failed laws they just passed.

If I had more time I'd study it up further but got to hit the road and do some shooting.


SC

Last edited by slackercruster; 07-28-2012 at 09:27 AM.
03-10-2013, 10:25 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by slackercruster Quote
Never really thought about this topic until 2 months ago when I picked up a small collection of photo books to expand my library.

<snip>

The other one was 'The last Day of Summer' by Jock Sturges.
The book is available in Australian book stores.

The TV programme "The Beauty Within Us: The Photographer Jock Sturges" was shown on TV here in Australia very recently (January) - on an Australian federal govt. owned channel (the ABC). Not only were the photos shown but so was video of nude girls being photographed by Sturges. I found it interesting that Sturges had no pants on whilst doing the photography.

Unlike the USA, nothing was pixellated out.

Last edited by p38arover; 03-11-2013 at 04:21 AM.
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