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08-02-2012, 02:12 PM   #1
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need help with low light, motion with *ist dl

I'm new to the DSLR world and new to Pentax. I bought a used *ist DL in April and have so far been very happy with it, once I figured out how to adjust it. I LOVE how it performs for pics of my daughter's swim meets and softball games, but now I'm moving on to a completely different area. I am gonig to do birth photography and was hoping to use the ist dl since it's what have. I do very much want to upgrade, perhaps to the k-30, but it's completely out of the budget right now. It'll take me probly a year or so so save the $900 needed. BUT I have a client in October whom I'm going to take birth pictures for so I need tips of how to get the best pics, low light, NO FLASH. I got a 55mm f/1.7 MF lens and that helped tremendously, but not enough. I also turned the ISO up to 3200, which also helped, but NOT enough. there will be motion, so I need a good speed so as not to get blur. does anybody have any tips for using this camera in VERY low light settings with no flash? and how much could I compensate in photoshop - which I still barely know how to use, but I'm learning that as well. I only shoot in manual, as I feel that's the whole point is being able to take the picture that I want, not what the camera thinks.

08-02-2012, 03:02 PM   #2
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I think you already have a good grasp of the concepts. Photography is a world of compromise, everything is tied together, aperture, ISO, shutter speed and extra light are the only things you can change.

You got a very fast lens (f/1.7) and you increased the ISO to 3200 which I think is pushing the limit on that camera. Except for either flash or video lights, nothing else you can do with that camera.

That is a very difficult shoot, and unfortunately not a lot you can do without upgrading your camera. And even that will not magically fix it, just make it closer to possible. If ISO 3200 is not working the only solution is even higher ISO which you can get with the k-5 and k-30.

You might look into a used k-x, you can go at least 6400 and maybe 12,800 on that camera if you have good noise reduction software.
08-02-2012, 07:02 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marsena Quote
I'm new to the DSLR world and new to Pentax. I bought a used *ist DL in April and have so far been very happy with it, once I figured out how to adjust it. I LOVE how it performs for pics of my daughter's swim meets and softball games, but now I'm moving on to a completely different area. I am gonig to do birth photography and was hoping to use the ist dl since it's what have. I do very much want to upgrade, perhaps to the k-30, but it's completely out of the budget right now. It'll take me probly a year or so so save the $900 needed. BUT I have a client in October whom I'm going to take birth pictures for so I need tips of how to get the best pics, low light, NO FLASH. I got a 55mm f/1.7 MF lens and that helped tremendously, but not enough. I also turned the ISO up to 3200, which also helped, but NOT enough. there will be motion, so I need a good speed so as not to get blur. does anybody have any tips for using this camera in VERY low light settings with no flash? and how much could I compensate in photoshop - which I still barely know how to use, but I'm learning that as well. I only shoot in manual, as I feel that's the whole point is being able to take the picture that I want, not what the camera thinks.
As Jatrax pointed out, you will need to get something that has high ISO performance. I would suggest maybe looking in to hire for the shoot, you could hire a K-5 for the day and if you are willing to go up to ISO 3200 on the ist dl you would be exceptionally happy with results at even 12800 with the K-5 which even goes up to 51200 and some people are happy with these results even.

If you were going to hire for the day I suggest you go hire one now give it a trial run and learn how it all works. This will save you money on upgrading if you don't need it often.
08-03-2012, 09:15 AM   #4
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Thanks! I may look into trying to find a rent to own. I live in the middle of Nebraska. closest camera place (and only one within 4 hours) is an hour away, they have a small selection, due to small demand. all they have is a 3 month layaway, but I need it to work with now. ) I did find a rent to own website which may be an option. the k-5 is sounding dreamy! ) I compared it to the k-30 and it costs more but is sounding way better! ) thanks so much for your replies!

08-03-2012, 10:27 AM   #5
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By mentioning a 'client' you make this sound like a paid photo shoot so I would certainly do some test shooting in a similar environment and similar lighting to get a feel for what you will have to do to make things work. I have to be completely honest with you, I am not sure that you have the best tools for this task but there are several things you can do to increase your chance of success. People have been able to take images like this with a lot less than what you have available.

You obviously are familiar with the ISO, shutter speed and aperture relationship so you have your exposure options well mapped out. I do use 3200 on my DL2 but I prefer to stay at 1600 or below if I can. The pictures are much better and Noise Ninja does a better job of cleaning them up.

I think a bigger problem than your camera may be your lens. I know you like manual, and so do I, but in this case your aperture will need to be wide open, and your depth of field is going to be very narrow. This means that exact focus will be far more important than is normally the case. I recommend setting yourself up in one spot with a reasonably clear view of the "action" so you can pre-focus the lens. It will certainly help if you can do this. Remember, focus confirmation will help but it isn't exact so don't totally rely on it. Practice your manual focusing technique in the same general lighting you will have available until you are confident you can focus in quickly. Practice, practice, practice!! Photographers were successfully using manual lenses for years and years before autofocus along, but they had much clearer viewfinders and focusing aids to work with that you do not have on your camera. And they pre-focused a lot.

I use manual focus all the time on my DL2 (I have to because the focus motor died) but I have a Katzeye focus screen installed which makes my keeper rate much higher. You may want to check into this if your budget will allow it. Obviously the nice thing about manual focus is that you are making the decisions, not the camera. The downside is that you will sometimes miss some shots.

Rental is a much better option if you can find a K5 for the shoot, or even (gasp) a Nikon or Canon.

I don't usually recommend this but another thing you can try is setting your drive mode to continuous shooting. Be prepared to fire three or four shots at a time. Your buffer should handle that many shots without locking up on you. I find that many times at least one of that string will be a clear shot. Don't be afraid of taking too many pictures. Have several memory cards quickly available. Know how many shots you can get and swap cards early whenever there is a break in the action.

Do what you can do to remove your own motion from the equation. If you can, use a monopod to help steady your camera. I would recommend a tripod but this is almost certainly too much and will be too hard to move out of the way if you have to do it quickly.

I don't know everything about this "birthing" but if it is in someone's home perhaps you can suggest a bit of additional lighting. Obviously not a flash but maybe you can set a floor lamp up in advance to improve your light.

And remember to enjoy yourself. A birth is a wonderful event and you are getting the chance to record it.
08-03-2012, 07:23 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marsena Quote
I may look into trying to find a rent to own.
I think chaos_realm was talking about just renting the gear you need at first, if this is a paying gig then you can cover the cost of the rental and also find out if the gear is up to the job. After you have done a few you should have the cash to buy outright if things are working and if they do not work then you are not out the money for the gear. This is actually pretty common for professionals that might need a particular lens for a job, they just rent it for as long as they need it and then return.

Here is a link to a rental outfit that has Pentax gear: Rent professional cameras or camera lenses for Canon, Nikon, Sony, Olympus, Leica and Pentax
I have never used them but have heard of others that have.
08-05-2012, 09:30 AM   #7
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I knew it was meant as renting. but I don't see the point of renting when I could buy, then resell if I decide I don't like it. I'd pay a good chunk to rent for long enough to decide. I plan to do this as a charge business, but I'm doing it for a few for *really* cheap so I can get some practice. So it'll be awhile before I have enough paying clients to buy the better camera. I went to the local camera store and got a used K-r that's better in low light. I'm hoping I can make it work for a year or until I can save for the k-5. But while I have 4to kids, 2 of which are age 2 and 7 months, it'll be awhile before I'm ready for more commitment than a couple clients per month ) and right now I have 2 "scheduled" for october.... not that I can schedule births lol. Thanks for the help! I sometimes wish I didn't live in the middle of nowhere, so I had more options lol. But overall we love it here!

08-05-2012, 05:08 PM   #8
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I think you will see an upgrade in the K-r and with photokina next month and everyone anticipating a possible K-5 announcement, you should be able to get a good deal on a used K-5 in a few months. I see that you are new on here, so I would watch the marketplace as you can usually find some pretty good deals.

Regarding your shoot... The K-r will be better, but it still might not be enough. Could you use some continuous lighting? I know there are a lot of DIY lighting projects on the internet and daylight balanced bulbs can be found at lowes and home depot. With DIY you could get a decent set-up without having to order for brand-name new.
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