Moon & Jupiter on Monday

Alliecat · 01-19-2013, 09:17 PM

Assuming this event is not clouded out like every other astronomical event around here that I've been looking forward to photographing...
I'd like to get a good shot of the moon & Jupiter. With 200 film when putting a moon in a scene I usually shoot 1/125 at f8 for a full moon, or 5.6 for less than full. I'm wondering if that will be sufficient to expose Jupiter as well. This seems like a dumb question to which I ought to know the answer. But having shot the Christmas conjunction with just my little postage-stamp digicam, I'd like to do a "good" shot this time on film, & would like to have an exposure that shows Jupiter nicely without washing out the moon. --i.e. a minimum of "fixing" with Photoshop! I can go to 300 mm with my lenses or use my telescope which equates to, if I recall, 700mm (probably too close?) & is an f11 on the camera. But wondering about the exposure.
Suggestions?

Eulogy · 01-19-2013, 09:46 PM

I tried this recently, and I can tell you, it will be exposed, but not all that well. I actually used a dry erase pen to darken the area capturing the moon a bit. (Still was a massive exposure nightmare, though will film, DR is massive, so you might have better luck)

ElJamoquio · 01-19-2013, 11:22 PM

If you're doing digital, I'd probably take a pic of both with the 300mm and one just of jupiter with the 800mm and stitch them together later.

Medium FormatPro · 01-20-2013, 05:35 AM

I'm thinking that Jupiter won't show up as much more than a dot - even with 800mm and also even "if" one did use the 1.5 conversion factor. To get both in the same pic would also require either extreme editing or a lot of experimenting with filters and such - preferably graduated filters.

wildman · 01-20-2013, 06:13 AM

I'd like to get the 1000mm on it but the official weather report for Monday night is...

..."Partly cloudy, with a low around -11. Wind chill values as low as -28. Northwest wind 7 to 14 mph."

Need I say more?

klkitchens · 01-20-2013, 06:19 AM

"I light my torch and wave it..." ~ Duran Duran

The rule I've always used is 1/ISO at f11

Docrwm · 01-20-2013, 07:39 AM

For balancing both you'll need to use graduated filters and compose just right. The difference in intensity of the light your camera will be processing is huge between the moon and nearly any other night-time astronomical object.

klkitchens · 01-20-2013, 12:01 PM

And set white balance to sunlight

**Ex Finn.** · 01-20-2013, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by Alliecat

my telescope which equates to, if I recall, 700mm

That should get them both in frame. All you can do is expose for the moon and try to adjust for Jupiter in PP.
I will be trying the same shot tomorrow with 900mm FL, will be a tight shot, might have to rotate the camera to fit everything in frame.

**baro-nite** · 01-20-2013, 08:08 PM

Alliecat, thanks for bringing this up -- I would have missed the conjunction otherwise. I envy those in South America who will have a full occultation.

I just did some experimenting to check on exposure and magnifications. I got a reasonable moon exposure (half a stop underexposed) at ISO 800, 1/160, approx f/16. The small f/ratio is because I was using stacked TCs. The same exposure does get Jupiter, underexposed by about 3 stops, but does not pick up its moons. For that I needed ISO 1600, 1/60, which only barely gets the moons; that's about as far as I could push things at this magnification.

From Canada I don't think the Moon and Jupiter will be close enough to have Jupiter show as more than a speck anyway, so I don't know that getting Jupiter's moons is as important for this shot.

Jupiter
DA* 300 on stacked generic TCs (1.4x and 2x), stopped down 1 stop, on the Q. 50% crop.

Mountains of the moon. (Same rig as previous shot; 25% crop.) The large crater at upper left is Plato, from which the Montes Alpes swing down and right, to the Montes Caucasus (bordering Mare Serenitatis, at right) with the Montes Appeninus continuing down and leftward, pointing toward Copernicus -- the large crater just visible on the Terminator at lower left.

Alliecat · 01-20-2013, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by baro-nite

I got a reasonable moon exposure (half a stop underexposed) at ISO 800, 1/160, approx f/16.

So that should equate more or less to my default 1/125, f8, ISO 200. No, would certainly not expect to pick up Jupiter's moons. I suppose I could overexpose the moon a bit & sort of average it out between that & Jupiter. It won't be anything display-worthy, more of an I-was-there kind of shot!
May all be moot anyway. Forecast is giving a chance of flurries. ARGH!!!

Originally posted by baro-nite

From Canada I don't think the Moon and Jupiter will be close enough to have Jupiter show as more than a speck anyway,

Um... is Jupiter closer to the USA...?

**Ex Finn.** · 01-21-2013, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by Alliecat

Um... is Jupiter closer to the USA...?

Absolutely

.

**baro-nite** · 01-21-2013, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by Alliecat

Um... is Jupiter closer to the USA...?

Given that it's winter, I suppose not, at least at night. But you have a different viewing angle -- for those of us in the Northern Hemisphere, the Moon will appear to pass south of Jupiter, so the farther north you go, the wider the separation.

**Ex Finn.** · 01-21-2013, 07:34 PM

OK, it is windy out there tonight, 20-30 mph. So that is my excuse for the lack of image quality and the fact that I did my shooting more than an hour from optimal time.
Just a minor adjustment to levels in PSE.

**baro-nite** · 01-21-2013, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Ex Finn.

OK, it is windy out there tonight, 20-30 mph. So that is my excuse for the lack of image quality and the fact that I did my shooting more than an hour from optimal time.
Just a minor adjustment to levels in PSE.

Excellent! 1/200 @ ISO 80, so shooting around f/5.6?

01-19-2013, 09:17 PM	#1
Alliecat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: East of Everywhere, Canada Posts: 740	Moon & Jupiter on Monday Assuming this event is not clouded out like every other astronomical event around here that I've been looking forward to photographing... I'd like to get a good shot of the moon & Jupiter. With 200 film when putting a moon in a scene I usually shoot 1/125 at f8 for a full moon, or 5.6 for less than full. I'm wondering if that will be sufficient to expose Jupiter as well. This seems like a dumb question to which I ought to know the answer. But having shot the Christmas conjunction with just my little postage-stamp digicam, I'd like to do a "good" shot this time on film, & would like to have an exposure that shows Jupiter nicely without washing out the moon. --i.e. a minimum of "fixing" with Photoshop! I can go to 300 mm with my lenses or use my telescope which equates to, if I recall, 700mm (probably too close?) & is an f11 on the camera. But wondering about the exposure. Suggestions?

01-21-2013, 06:05 AM	#12
Ex Finn. Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern Maryland. Espoo. Kouvola. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,975	Originally posted by Alliecat Um... is Jupiter closer to the USA...? Absolutely.

01-21-2013, 07:34 PM	#14
Ex Finn. Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern Maryland. Espoo. Kouvola. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,975	OK, it is windy out there tonight, 20-30 mph. So that is my excuse for the lack of image quality and the fact that I did my shooting more than an hour from optimal time. Just a minor adjustment to levels in PSE. Last edited by Ex Finn.; 11-11-2014 at 05:46 PM.

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01-19-2013, 09:46 PM	#2
Eulogy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick Photos: Gallery Posts: 632	I tried this recently, and I can tell you, it will be exposed, but not all that well. I actually used a dry erase pen to darken the area capturing the moon a bit. (Still was a massive exposure nightmare, though will film, DR is massive, so you might have better luck)

01-19-2013, 11:22 PM	#3
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	If you're doing digital, I'd probably take a pic of both with the 300mm and one just of jupiter with the 800mm and stitch them together later.

01-20-2013, 05:35 AM	#4
Medium FormatPro Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Charleston & Pittsburgh Photos: Albums Posts: 1,668	I'm thinking that Jupiter won't show up as much more than a dot - even with 800mm and also even "if" one did use the 1.5 conversion factor. To get both in the same pic would also require either extreme editing or a lot of experimenting with filters and such - preferably graduated filters.

01-20-2013, 06:13 AM	#5
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	I'd like to get the 1000mm on it but the official weather report for Monday night is... ..."Partly cloudy, with a low around -11. Wind chill values as low as -28. Northwest wind 7 to 14 mph." Need I say more?

01-20-2013, 06:19 AM	#6
klkitchens Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Allanta, GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 480	"I light my torch and wave it..." ~ Duran Duran The rule I've always used is 1/ISO at f11

01-20-2013, 07:39 AM	#7
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	For balancing both you'll need to use graduated filters and compose just right. The difference in intensity of the light your camera will be processing is huge between the moon and nearly any other night-time astronomical object.

01-20-2013, 12:01 PM	#8
klkitchens Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Allanta, GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 480	And set white balance to sunlight

01-20-2013, 06:12 PM	#9
Ex Finn. Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern Maryland. Espoo. Kouvola. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,975	Originally posted by Alliecat my telescope which equates to, if I recall, 700mm That should get them both in frame. All you can do is expose for the moon and try to adjust for Jupiter in PP. I will be trying the same shot tomorrow with 900mm FL, will be a tight shot, might have to rotate the camera to fit everything in frame.

01-20-2013, 08:08 PM	#10
baro-nite Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,295	Alliecat, thanks for bringing this up -- I would have missed the conjunction otherwise. I envy those in South America who will have a full occultation. I just did some experimenting to check on exposure and magnifications. I got a reasonable moon exposure (half a stop underexposed) at ISO 800, 1/160, approx f/16. The small f/ratio is because I was using stacked TCs. The same exposure does get Jupiter, underexposed by about 3 stops, but does not pick up its moons. For that I needed ISO 1600, 1/60, which only barely gets the moons; that's about as far as I could push things at this magnification. From Canada I don't think the Moon and Jupiter will be close enough to have Jupiter show as more than a speck anyway, so I don't know that getting Jupiter's moons is as important for this shot. Jupiter DA* 300 on stacked generic TCs (1.4x and 2x), stopped down 1 stop, on the Q. 50% crop. Mountains of the moon. (Same rig as previous shot; 25% crop.) The large crater at upper left is Plato, from which the Montes Alpes swing down and right, to the Montes Caucasus (bordering Mare Serenitatis, at right) with the Montes Appeninus continuing down and leftward, pointing toward Copernicus -- the large crater just visible on the Terminator at lower left.

01-20-2013, 11:12 PM	#11
Alliecat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: East of Everywhere, Canada Posts: 740 Original Poster	Originally posted by baro-nite I got a reasonable moon exposure (half a stop underexposed) at ISO 800, 1/160, approx f/16. So that should equate more or less to my default 1/125, f8, ISO 200. No, would certainly not expect to pick up Jupiter's moons. I suppose I could overexpose the moon a bit & sort of average it out between that & Jupiter. It won't be anything display-worthy, more of an I-was-there kind of shot! May all be moot anyway. Forecast is giving a chance of flurries. ARGH!!! Originally posted by baro-nite From Canada I don't think the Moon and Jupiter will be close enough to have Jupiter show as more than a speck anyway, Um... is Jupiter closer to the USA...?

01-21-2013, 06:41 AM	#13
baro-nite Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,295	Originally posted by Alliecat Um... is Jupiter closer to the USA...? Given that it's winter, I suppose not, at least at night. But you have a different viewing angle -- for those of us in the Northern Hemisphere, the Moon will appear to pass south of Jupiter, so the farther north you go, the wider the separation.

01-21-2013, 07:44 PM	#15
baro-nite Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,295	Originally posted by Ex Finn. OK, it is windy out there tonight, 20-30 mph. So that is my excuse for the lack of image quality and the fact that I did my shooting more than an hour from optimal time. Just a minor adjustment to levels in PSE. Excellent! 1/200 @ ISO 80, so shooting around f/5.6?