Advise - What lenses are good to shoot these beautiful birds...and portraits as well.

samysarena · 05-06-2013, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by Docrwm

Very nice work. Flash is your friend. Even lower power settings will result in sharper images. C an't seem to find it now but there was a long thread a while back on power of flash and freezing humming birds in flight. You might look around the forum and see if you can find it.

Hi! Docrwm, I'll try to look around and read more about using Flash in better way. I've not explored how to use flash other than just pop up flash as in Point and shoot and there it goes. I may sound too amateur but then I'm new to DSLR world, learning baby steps.

samysarena · 05-06-2013, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by GordonZA

Very nice shots!

You could experiment with using a higher shutter speed and higher ISO that would allow you to freeze the wings. Also save up and get a fast telephoto prime lens that would allow you to use a higher shutter speed but because it lets in more light you could still keep your ISO lower for less noise.

Your shots are great though!!

Hi! Gordon, Thanks for suggestions. Could you please suggest such fast telephoto prime lens. Also do the old Takumar or M fall in such category as well. Please name a few models.

Docrwm · 05-06-2013, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by samysarena

Hi! Docrwm, I'll try to look around and read more about using Flash in better way. I've not explored how to use flash other than just pop up flash as in Point and shoot and there it goes. I may sound too amateur but then I'm new to DSLR world, learning baby steps.

Freezing action is more a factor of how fast the flash is when you get to humming bird wing speed than the shutter speed is. If they were on your neighbors porch then a flash is not going to work. Get some feeders to draw them closer and then try flash at different settings -0.5, -1.0, etc.

samysarena · 05-06-2013, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by Docrwm

Freezing action is more a factor of how fast the flash is when you get to humming bird wing speed than the shutter speed is. If they were on your neighbors porch then a flash is not going to work. Get some feeders to draw them closer and then try flash at different settings -0.5, -1.0, etc.

Thanks for quick response. Yes I am gonna buy a feeder, I love these birds. Would not these birds get scared with flash. I read they've very very fast heart beat (250 beats per minute resting and 1250 beats per minute while feeding).

Docrwm · 05-06-2013, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by samysarena

Thanks for quick response. Yes I am gonna buy a feeder, I love these birds. Would not these birds get scared with flash. I read they've very very fast heart beat (250 beats per minute resting and 1250 beats per minute while feeding).

Others have been successful with flash and local hummingbirds. Do a search here for Hummingbird and you'll find some good threads on this issue.

samysarena · 05-06-2013, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by Docrwm

Others have been successful with flash and local hummingbirds. Do a search here for Hummingbird and you'll find some good threads on this issue.

Yup thanks for heads up. I am looking around

bullitt_60 · 05-06-2013, 10:26 PM

I think either the Sigma or Tamron 70-200 f2.8 would fit the bill well for those two types of photography.

**Lowell Goudge** · 05-07-2013, 04:41 AM

Originally posted by samysarena

Thanks for quick response. Yes I am gonna buy a feeder, I love these birds. Would not these birds get scared with flash. I read they've very very fast heart beat (250 beats per minute resting and 1250 beats per minute while feeding).

I have used flash with birding for about 15 years now, it goes virtually in noticed, and gives you very good definition because it can really freeze motion.

As for lenses, you will find this is a slippery slope, you can never get a long enough lens.

Right now, I am playing with a Q, since it has a 5.5:1 crop factor it makes my K135 like a 750mmF2.5 lens

, but I think the Q can actually our resolve the lens.

Docrwm · 05-07-2013, 04:45 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

I have used flash with birding for about 15 years now, it goes virtually in noticed, and gives you very good definition because it can really freeze motion.

As for lenses, you will find this is a slippery slope, you can never get a long enough lens.

Right now, I am playing with a Q, since it has a 5.5:1 crop factor it makes my K135 like a 750mmF2.5 lens

, but I think the Q can actually our resolve the lens.

Are you using a Pentax adapter or a 3rd party one (can't recall sorry)?

**boriscleto** · 05-07-2013, 04:46 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

I have used flash with birding for about 15 years now, it goes virtually in noticed, and gives you very good definition because it can really freeze motion.

Principles of Birding Ethics | About the American Birding Association | American Birding Association

**Lowell Goudge** · 05-07-2013, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by Docrwm

Are you using a Pentax adapter or a 3rd party one (can't recall sorry)?

pentax, i went for the ability to have flash with legacy glass

Docrwm · 05-07-2013, 05:13 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

pentax, i went for the ability to have flash with legacy glass

Thought that might be the case, also you have the built in shutter.

**Lowell Goudge** · 05-07-2013, 06:17 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

I have used flash with birding for about 15 years now, it goes virtually in noticed, and gives you very good definition because it can really freeze motion.

As for lenses, you will find this is a slippery slope, you can never get a long enough lens.

Right now, I am playing with a Q, since it has a 5.5:1 crop factor it makes my K135 like a 750mmF2.5 lens

, but I think the Q can actually our resolve the lens.

Originally posted by boriscleto

Principles of Birding Ethics | About the American Birding Association | American Birding Association

I am not sure what you are suggesting here, but a flash is very, very non intrusive. I can understand lighting for video etc, where amongst other things the heat alone is disturbing and stressful, but flash is really no different that lightning or other natural events which birds are exposed to. I have, for example never had a bird leave its perch when shooting with flash, but i have often seen this when people approach.

Clearly common sense needs to be taken into account, especially near nesting areas, for the obvious reasons, but i do not see flash, combined with a telephoto lens as an issue

**Lowell Goudge** · 05-07-2013, 06:21 AM

Originally posted by Docrwm

Thought that might be the case, also you have the built in shutter.

the built in shutter is what really allows flash, because without it, sync speed is something like 1/13 of a second. With the Pentax adaptor you get up to at least 1/250.

I have not done a lot yet with the Q and flash for wild life, as the main reason I am looking at the Q for wildlife in particular is to get more reach with less lens. Presently I am playing with a K135/2.5 and a series 1 70-210/3.5. the 135 has a FF equivalent of 750mm and the zoom at 210mm is something like 1100mm FF equivalent.

I dont know of any other way to get 1100mm at F3.5 in under 1 kilo

p.s. to the op, sorry for the hijack

**boriscleto** · 05-07-2013, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

I am not sure what you are suggesting here, but a flash is very, very non intrusive. I can understand lighting for video etc, where amongst other things the heat alone is disturbing and stressful, but flash is really no different that lightning or other natural events which birds are exposed to. I have, for example never had a bird leave its perch when shooting with flash, but i have often seen this when people approach.

Clearly common sense needs to be taken into account, especially near nesting areas, for the obvious reasons, but i do not see flash, combined with a telephoto lens as an issue

This has been debated ad nauseum...my local Audubon comes down on the side of no flash.

05-07-2013, 04:41 AM	#23
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	Originally posted by samysarena Thanks for quick response. Yes I am gonna buy a feeder, I love these birds. Would not these birds get scared with flash. I read they've very very fast heart beat (250 beats per minute resting and 1250 beats per minute while feeding). I have used flash with birding for about 15 years now, it goes virtually in noticed, and gives you very good definition because it can really freeze motion. As for lenses, you will find this is a slippery slope, you can never get a long enough lens. Right now, I am playing with a Q, since it has a 5.5:1 crop factor it makes my K135 like a 750mmF2.5 lens, but I think the Q can actually our resolve the lens.

05-07-2013, 04:45 AM	#24
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge I have used flash with birding for about 15 years now, it goes virtually in noticed, and gives you very good definition because it can really freeze motion. As for lenses, you will find this is a slippery slope, you can never get a long enough lens. Right now, I am playing with a Q, since it has a 5.5:1 crop factor it makes my K135 like a 750mmF2.5 lens, but I think the Q can actually our resolve the lens. Are you using a Pentax adapter or a 3rd party one (can't recall sorry)?

05-07-2013, 06:17 AM	#28
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge I have used flash with birding for about 15 years now, it goes virtually in noticed, and gives you very good definition because it can really freeze motion. As for lenses, you will find this is a slippery slope, you can never get a long enough lens. Right now, I am playing with a Q, since it has a 5.5:1 crop factor it makes my K135 like a 750mmF2.5 lens, but I think the Q can actually our resolve the lens. Originally posted by boriscleto Principles of Birding Ethics \| About the American Birding Association \| American Birding Association I am not sure what you are suggesting here, but a flash is very, very non intrusive. I can understand lighting for video etc, where amongst other things the heat alone is disturbing and stressful, but flash is really no different that lightning or other natural events which birds are exposed to. I have, for example never had a bird leave its perch when shooting with flash, but i have often seen this when people approach. Clearly common sense needs to be taken into account, especially near nesting areas, for the obvious reasons, but i do not see flash, combined with a telephoto lens as an issue

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05-06-2013, 08:05 PM	#16
samysarena Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 54 Original Poster	Originally posted by Docrwm Very nice work. Flash is your friend. Even lower power settings will result in sharper images. C an't seem to find it now but there was a long thread a while back on power of flash and freezing humming birds in flight. You might look around the forum and see if you can find it. Hi! Docrwm, I'll try to look around and read more about using Flash in better way. I've not explored how to use flash other than just pop up flash as in Point and shoot and there it goes. I may sound too amateur but then I'm new to DSLR world, learning baby steps.

05-06-2013, 08:07 PM	#17
samysarena Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 54 Original Poster	Originally posted by GordonZA Very nice shots! You could experiment with using a higher shutter speed and higher ISO that would allow you to freeze the wings. Also save up and get a fast telephoto prime lens that would allow you to use a higher shutter speed but because it lets in more light you could still keep your ISO lower for less noise. Your shots are great though!! Hi! Gordon, Thanks for suggestions. Could you please suggest such fast telephoto prime lens. Also do the old Takumar or M fall in such category as well. Please name a few models.

05-06-2013, 08:08 PM	#18
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by samysarena Hi! Docrwm, I'll try to look around and read more about using Flash in better way. I've not explored how to use flash other than just pop up flash as in Point and shoot and there it goes. I may sound too amateur but then I'm new to DSLR world, learning baby steps. Freezing action is more a factor of how fast the flash is when you get to humming bird wing speed than the shutter speed is. If they were on your neighbors porch then a flash is not going to work. Get some feeders to draw them closer and then try flash at different settings -0.5, -1.0, etc.

05-06-2013, 08:13 PM	#19
samysarena Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 54 Original Poster	Originally posted by Docrwm Freezing action is more a factor of how fast the flash is when you get to humming bird wing speed than the shutter speed is. If they were on your neighbors porch then a flash is not going to work. Get some feeders to draw them closer and then try flash at different settings -0.5, -1.0, etc. Thanks for quick response. Yes I am gonna buy a feeder, I love these birds. Would not these birds get scared with flash. I read they've very very fast heart beat (250 beats per minute resting and 1250 beats per minute while feeding).

05-06-2013, 08:14 PM	#20
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by samysarena Thanks for quick response. Yes I am gonna buy a feeder, I love these birds. Would not these birds get scared with flash. I read they've very very fast heart beat (250 beats per minute resting and 1250 beats per minute while feeding). Others have been successful with flash and local hummingbirds. Do a search here for Hummingbird and you'll find some good threads on this issue.

05-06-2013, 08:38 PM	#21
samysarena Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 54 Original Poster	Originally posted by Docrwm Others have been successful with flash and local hummingbirds. Do a search here for Hummingbird and you'll find some good threads on this issue. Yup thanks for heads up. I am looking around

05-06-2013, 10:26 PM	#22
bullitt_60 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 320	I think either the Sigma or Tamron 70-200 f2.8 would fit the bill well for those two types of photography.

05-07-2013, 04:46 AM	#25
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,473	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge I have used flash with birding for about 15 years now, it goes virtually in noticed, and gives you very good definition because it can really freeze motion. Principles of Birding Ethics \| About the American Birding Association \| American Birding Association

05-07-2013, 04:58 AM	#26
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	Originally posted by Docrwm Are you using a Pentax adapter or a 3rd party one (can't recall sorry)? pentax, i went for the ability to have flash with legacy glass

05-07-2013, 05:13 AM	#27
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge pentax, i went for the ability to have flash with legacy glass Thought that might be the case, also you have the built in shutter.

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05-07-2013, 06:21 AM	#29
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	Originally posted by Docrwm Thought that might be the case, also you have the built in shutter. the built in shutter is what really allows flash, because without it, sync speed is something like 1/13 of a second. With the Pentax adaptor you get up to at least 1/250. I have not done a lot yet with the Q and flash for wild life, as the main reason I am looking at the Q for wildlife in particular is to get more reach with less lens. Presently I am playing with a K135/2.5 and a series 1 70-210/3.5. the 135 has a FF equivalent of 750mm and the zoom at 210mm is something like 1100mm FF equivalent. I dont know of any other way to get 1100mm at F3.5 in under 1 kilo p.s. to the op, sorry for the hijack

05-07-2013, 06:40 AM	#30
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,473	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge I am not sure what you are suggesting here, but a flash is very, very non intrusive. I can understand lighting for video etc, where amongst other things the heat alone is disturbing and stressful, but flash is really no different that lightning or other natural events which birds are exposed to. I have, for example never had a bird leave its perch when shooting with flash, but i have often seen this when people approach. Clearly common sense needs to be taken into account, especially near nesting areas, for the obvious reasons, but i do not see flash, combined with a telephoto lens as an issue This has been debated ad nauseum...my local Audubon comes down on the side of no flash.