Advice on Upcoming Event

metalfab · 03-09-2008, 01:15 PM

Hi All,

There is an upcoming Renewing of Vows that a couple is having at a church. I have been asked to volunteer (which is fine by me, I'm no pro) to do the photos. It's not what would be called a formal wedding, it's going to take place during the regular Sunday service.

I have the 2 lenses in my sig and that is it. However, I have convinced the better half that I need a flash, I'm thinking the Pentax 360 due to budget and post-usage. Also, I'm not going to want to switch lenses so which one would you use?

Any other suggestions would be great in terms of tips/tricks

TIA

AndrewShirley · 03-09-2008, 01:23 PM

The only thing that really sticks out about the 360 is lack of swivel. I have the Sigma Ef-500 DG Super and find the swivel absolutely essential when shooting portrait orientation. Without it, you can only bounce in landscape (unless using wireless). I suppose trying to bounce in a church would be out of the question anyway.

If you're allowed to get close then I would go with the 50/1.4, especially if you're not even allowed to use flash. If you're shooting from the nose-bleeds then the 18-250 is the only way to go.

- Andrew

metalfab · 03-09-2008, 01:51 PM

I was thinking about the 360's lack of swivel too (so much for the 360 name

. Money is a factor so i don't know if I can justify another $200 for the 540.

I can get as close as I want, within reason of course. I have shot there before with just the 50mm with no flash, 20 of 65 photos were good, maybe 3 were 8x10 worthy. From the balcony I can get about 3/4 of the stage area.

**Lowell Goudge** · 03-09-2008, 04:28 PM

I think there are reasons to use the 50mm, specifically for some natural light shots, just set the WB for tungsten,

I am not sure the other lens would be fast enough otherwise.

Flash also may be allowed, if you can get permission peforehand

flyer · 03-09-2008, 05:24 PM

If you're buying a new flash for the event, you should give the Sigma EF530DG Super a serious look. It's fully compatible with Pentax P-TTL, has tilt and swivel and works in wireless mode. It is about the same price as the Pentax 360, but quite a bit more powerful (a guide number of 53/metre vs 36/metre). If you are shooting in church, due to high ceiling and walls too far to reflect the light, believe me, you'll need the extra power. Since those walls and ceiling are far, you might need to use about +1 on the flash compensation. I wish you luck!

metalfab · 03-10-2008, 05:00 PM

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I ended up getting the 360, like I said, $200 more for the 540 was too much.

I couldn't find the Sigma 530 anywhere locally so to get use to the flash by this Sunday I just couldn't wait.

Our living room has a very high ceiling and is about 18' x 23' with a open hallway from the next floor up looking down. I can practice a bit over the next few nights when I have time. Also to see how the flash bounces off the natural cedar ceiling, should come close to the white ceiling of the church which is a bit higher.

metalfab · 03-10-2008, 07:46 PM

I think what I'm going to do is put the 50 on and the 360 flash, best of both worlds. I won't have to move too much as they'll either be just entering and moving to there place up front, near the Pastor and then exiting. I will obviously get some shots afterwards too.

On another note I just took about 20 images with the 18-250mm and 20 with the 50mm using my better half and kids as models. I used P Mode and P-TTL. The average F stop was 4.5 on the 18-250mm and 2.5 on the 50mm. All images were noticeably better on the 50mm, light, sharpness, everything. I knew this was to be the case but, the 50 blew the 18-250 away, no contest at all.

So, I'll test a few more times just to be sure. I'll see if I can get into the church on the Saturday to test the lighting as well. If not, go in about 1 or 2 hours early on the day of the wedding.

stewart_photo · 03-11-2008, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by metalfab

There is an upcoming Renewing of Vows that a couple is having at a church. ...(snip)... it's going to take place during the regular Sunday service. ...(snip)... I have convinced the better half that I need a flash, ...(snip)

Before buying/using any flash for this one event (especially during regular Sunday service), make sure to ask both the couple and the church leader if flash is acceptable. Either may prefer not to have such a blatant distraction.

If the latter turns out to be the case, stay away from the longest focal length of that zoom (focal lengths less than the very max have faster apertures), kick the ISO up to the maximum, and invest in image noise removal software instead (applied gently). I prefer Neat Image (since it works just fine with or without a camera profile), but many report good results with Noise Ninja as well.

And, yes, I would use the zoom over the 50mm. The longer focal lengths will allow you to maintain some reasonable distance to avoid intruding on the event too much.

stewart

metalfab · 03-12-2008, 07:07 PM

I can use the flash, that wasn't an issue with either party.

Originally posted by stewart_photo

And, yes, I would use the zoom over the 50mm. The longer focal lengths will allow you to maintain some reasonable distance to avoid intruding on the event too much.

stewart

Really? I don't think even if I shot at 3.5 I'd get any good shots with the 18-250mm and I'd be way too close as well. The 50mm at 1.4 last time I was there and 800 ISO was still only 1/20s (no flash). It will be day time this time around but, knowing the light inside the 50 and flash would be best. I'm going to test it out a day before if I can just to be sure.

dhulsmeyer · 03-13-2008, 10:54 AM

what about the legendary sunpak 383 or vivitar 285hv. both are widely available for less than a hundred bucks and everyone has good luck with them...

metalfab · 03-16-2008, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by stewart_photo

And, yes, I would use the zoom over the 50mm. The longer focal lengths will allow you to maintain some reasonable distance to avoid intruding on the event too much.

stewart

OK Stewart, I owe you an apology. You were very right about using the 18-250 over the 50 with a flash. I did a small test about an hour before the service today with both lenses. Got a few candid/test models in play too and the results were easier with the zoom.

The Pentax 360 flash I bought was great as well. At 100 to 150mm focal lengths (from the balcony area, approx. 40-60ft from the subjects) with the EV on +1 (max) they were just a shade dark. I used Silkypix EV control to easily bring the image back to a normal bright state. NR was not used in the camera (never is) and only false color control +10 points above default was needed (very small amount) at the most, 70% the photos didn't even need that.

Thanks again!

03-09-2008, 01:15 PM	#1
metalfab Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 302	Advice on Upcoming Event Hi All, There is an upcoming Renewing of Vows that a couple is having at a church. I have been asked to volunteer (which is fine by me, I'm no pro) to do the photos. It's not what would be called a formal wedding, it's going to take place during the regular Sunday service. I have the 2 lenses in my sig and that is it. However, I have convinced the better half that I need a flash, I'm thinking the Pentax 360 due to budget and post-usage. Also, I'm not going to want to switch lenses so which one would you use? Any other suggestions would be great in terms of tips/tricks TIA

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03-09-2008, 01:23 PM	#2
AndrewShirley Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 421	The only thing that really sticks out about the 360 is lack of swivel. I have the Sigma Ef-500 DG Super and find the swivel absolutely essential when shooting portrait orientation. Without it, you can only bounce in landscape (unless using wireless). I suppose trying to bounce in a church would be out of the question anyway. If you're allowed to get close then I would go with the 50/1.4, especially if you're not even allowed to use flash. If you're shooting from the nose-bleeds then the 18-250 is the only way to go. - Andrew

03-09-2008, 01:51 PM	#3
metalfab Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 302 Original Poster	I was thinking about the 360's lack of swivel too (so much for the 360 name . Money is a factor so i don't know if I can justify another $200 for the 540. I can get as close as I want, within reason of course. I have shot there before with just the 50mm with no flash, 20 of 65 photos were good, maybe 3 were 8x10 worthy. From the balcony I can get about 3/4 of the stage area.

03-09-2008, 04:28 PM	#4
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	I think there are reasons to use the 50mm, specifically for some natural light shots, just set the WB for tungsten, I am not sure the other lens would be fast enough otherwise. Flash also may be allowed, if you can get permission peforehand

03-09-2008, 05:24 PM	#5
flyer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada Posts: 2,013	If you're buying a new flash for the event, you should give the Sigma EF530DG Super a serious look. It's fully compatible with Pentax P-TTL, has tilt and swivel and works in wireless mode. It is about the same price as the Pentax 360, but quite a bit more powerful (a guide number of 53/metre vs 36/metre). If you are shooting in church, due to high ceiling and walls too far to reflect the light, believe me, you'll need the extra power. Since those walls and ceiling are far, you might need to use about +1 on the flash compensation. I wish you luck!

03-10-2008, 05:00 PM	#6
metalfab Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 302 Original Poster	Thanks for the advice everyone. I ended up getting the 360, like I said, $200 more for the 540 was too much. I couldn't find the Sigma 530 anywhere locally so to get use to the flash by this Sunday I just couldn't wait. Our living room has a very high ceiling and is about 18' x 23' with a open hallway from the next floor up looking down. I can practice a bit over the next few nights when I have time. Also to see how the flash bounces off the natural cedar ceiling, should come close to the white ceiling of the church which is a bit higher.

03-10-2008, 07:46 PM	#7
metalfab Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 302 Original Poster	I think what I'm going to do is put the 50 on and the 360 flash, best of both worlds. I won't have to move too much as they'll either be just entering and moving to there place up front, near the Pastor and then exiting. I will obviously get some shots afterwards too. On another note I just took about 20 images with the 18-250mm and 20 with the 50mm using my better half and kids as models. I used P Mode and P-TTL. The average F stop was 4.5 on the 18-250mm and 2.5 on the 50mm. All images were noticeably better on the 50mm, light, sharpness, everything. I knew this was to be the case but, the 50 blew the 18-250 away, no contest at all. So, I'll test a few more times just to be sure. I'll see if I can get into the church on the Saturday to test the lighting as well. If not, go in about 1 or 2 hours early on the day of the wedding.

03-11-2008, 07:12 PM	#8
stewart_photo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,864	Originally posted by metalfab There is an upcoming Renewing of Vows that a couple is having at a church. ...(snip)... it's going to take place during the regular Sunday service. ...(snip)... I have convinced the better half that I need a flash, ...(snip) Before buying/using any flash for this one event (especially during regular Sunday service), make sure to ask both the couple and the church leader if flash is acceptable. Either may prefer not to have such a blatant distraction. If the latter turns out to be the case, stay away from the longest focal length of that zoom (focal lengths less than the very max have faster apertures), kick the ISO up to the maximum, and invest in image noise removal software instead (applied gently). I prefer Neat Image (since it works just fine with or without a camera profile), but many report good results with Noise Ninja as well. And, yes, I would use the zoom over the 50mm. The longer focal lengths will allow you to maintain some reasonable distance to avoid intruding on the event too much. stewart

03-12-2008, 07:07 PM	#9
metalfab Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 302 Original Poster	I can use the flash, that wasn't an issue with either party. Originally posted by stewart_photo And, yes, I would use the zoom over the 50mm. The longer focal lengths will allow you to maintain some reasonable distance to avoid intruding on the event too much. stewart Really? I don't think even if I shot at 3.5 I'd get any good shots with the 18-250mm and I'd be way too close as well. The 50mm at 1.4 last time I was there and 800 ISO was still only 1/20s (no flash). It will be day time this time around but, knowing the light inside the 50 and flash would be best. I'm going to test it out a day before if I can just to be sure.

03-13-2008, 10:54 AM	#10
dhulsmeyer Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio USA Posts: 51	what about the legendary sunpak 383 or vivitar 285hv. both are widely available for less than a hundred bucks and everyone has good luck with them...

03-16-2008, 03:10 PM	#11
metalfab Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 302 Original Poster	Originally posted by stewart_photo And, yes, I would use the zoom over the 50mm. The longer focal lengths will allow you to maintain some reasonable distance to avoid intruding on the event too much. stewart OK Stewart, I owe you an apology. You were very right about using the 18-250 over the 50 with a flash. I did a small test about an hour before the service today with both lenses. Got a few candid/test models in play too and the results were easier with the zoom. The Pentax 360 flash I bought was great as well. At 100 to 150mm focal lengths (from the balcony area, approx. 40-60ft from the subjects) with the EV on +1 (max) they were just a shade dark. I used Silkypix EV control to easily bring the image back to a normal bright state. NR was not used in the camera (never is) and only false color control +10 points above default was needed (very small amount) at the most, 70% the photos didn't even need that. Thanks again!