Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-10-2008, 03:15 PM   #1
Veteran Member
Buddha Jones's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,587
ND filter vs Photoshop

I was on the verge of getting a Cokin P kit and some Graduated ND filters, when it dawned on me, can I get the same affect by doing some dodge/burn in PS? Is that not the same thing?

Is that cheating?

03-10-2008, 06:46 PM   #2
Veteran Member
Buddha Jones's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,587
Original Poster
OK, so who actually knows what dodge/burn is?
03-10-2008, 10:08 PM   #3
New Member




Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 12
Photoshop is an amazing tool, but it's no substitute for getting the shot right the first time. Relying on it to fix overexposure will mean losing detail in bright areas. You can burn white areas 'til your heart's content, but if the amount of light hitting your sensor was too much for too long, you lose any subtleties.

Back when I was learning to dodge and burn in the darkroom (anybody remember darkrooms?), it made me appreciate the importance of correct exposure even more.

I'd say get the filters and take great pictures, then you can really put those photoshop skills to work.
03-10-2008, 10:37 PM   #4
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
Canada_Rockies's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,385
QuoteOriginally posted by Buddha Jones Quote
I was on the verge of getting a Cokin P kit and some Graduated ND filters, when it dawned on me, can I get the same affect by doing some dodge/burn in PS? Is that not the same thing?

Is that cheating?
Buddha, if there is no detail in the blacks, burning won't do anything, and if there is no detail in the highlights, dodging won't do anything. If you want to do it electronically, you will have to learn to expose for one of the HDR programs and use them.

03-11-2008, 01:00 AM   #5
Veteran Member
aegisphan's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 815
Like C.R. said, HDR is the one. The graduated ND is only useful if you have a straight horizon. This is where I learnt my first HDR technique:

NatureScapes.Net - The High Dynamic Range (HDR) Landscape Photography Tutorial
03-11-2008, 01:25 AM   #6
and
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,476
GND's will not work in every situation where hdr or simply digial blending will, however those techniques need more than 1 shot because the sky will be overexposed in the first shot so at least one more with a properly exposed shot is needed, this also means that it will be very preferable to use a tripod, which may not always be available for use.

Im not very good at PP myself so I prefer getting the shot right. Am considering some LEE GND's
03-11-2008, 04:20 AM   #7
Veteran Member
jshurak's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: philadelphia
Posts: 626
QuoteOriginally posted by Buddha Jones Quote
I was on the verge of getting a Cokin P kit and some Graduated ND filters, when it dawned on me, can I get the same affect by doing some dodge/burn in PS? Is that not the same thing?

Is that cheating?
If you blow out the sky, there's less and less detail recorded ---> less and less you will regain from burning.

QuoteOriginally posted by aegisphan Quote
Like C.R. said, HDR is the one. The graduated ND is only useful if you have a straight horizon.
You can rotate the cokin filter system around to adjust for a not straight horizon.......But HDR will work to, but its a little more work.

03-11-2008, 05:49 AM   #8
Inactive Account




Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Outside of Philly
Posts: 1,561
I know what dodging and burning is!

I did B&W photography in high school. I always had trouble getting the film out of the canister and into the developing tank; the teacher usually had to go into the bag and do it for me

I can still smell those chemicals in my head....
03-11-2008, 06:30 AM   #9
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 854
Like everyone else is saying...nothing beats the real thing.

A technique that can be used to balance out a shot is a gradient fill . It's done by duplicating the original layer. Using the Fill properties, set to gradient. Choose a Mid Gray as start and White as end, apply the Fill. Then use your transparency tool to set the transparency of the fill. Once this is completed you can set the transparency of the duplicate layer to your own taste. When done combine the layers.

Now I use this with Corel Graphics so the terms and such could be different from PS. Also in the fill properties you can set the fill to run horizontal, vertical, or diagonal, to match the flow of the image.

Give it a try, it's a fun technique.
03-11-2008, 08:08 AM   #10
Veteran Member
aegisphan's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 815
QuoteOriginally posted by jshurak Quote
You can rotate the cokin filter system around to adjust for a not straight horizon.......But HDR will work to, but its a little more work.
I meant a straight line horizon, not a horizontal one. The site I linked to has the example image of such situation. If you use an ND grad, the mountain range, and the tree section on the right area will not get enough detail.

Personally, I don't use much PP for my picture except minor exposure adjustment. However, HDR is the one method that, I believe, would accomplish more than any simple equipment out there. After all, it gives you a higher dynamic range.
03-11-2008, 08:15 AM   #11
Veteran Member
Gooshin's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto, the one in Canada.
Posts: 5,610
if the argument is Filter vs Photoshop on a single frame then ofcourse using a filter will give better results, as others have said you cant put light into pure black and you cant put detail into burned out whites.

however, if we are talking about using the digital cameras full capabilities, an HDR + Photoshop will produce results a filter will never match

not to mention the fact that you have less glass in the way.
03-11-2008, 08:51 AM   #12
Veteran Member
jshurak's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: philadelphia
Posts: 626
QuoteOriginally posted by aegisphan Quote
I meant a straight line horizon, not a horizontal one. The site I linked to has the example image of such situation. If you use an ND grad, the mountain range, and the tree section on the right area will not get enough detail.

Personally, I don't use much PP for my picture except minor exposure adjustment. However, HDR is the one method that, I believe, would accomplish more than any simple equipment out there. After all, it gives you a higher dynamic range.

right, that's fine. But keep in mind that in digital photography more detail is kept in an underexposed frame than in an overexposed frame. That being said, anything that is included in the grad part that shouldn't be, like a mountain and whatnot, will be underexposed by the ND amount. This small area can easily be dodged to the right exposure.

Of course HDR will work, but personally, I think PS's version is crap. Photomatix is much better. But an additional $100. Plus you're going to spend a lot of time tone mapping, which can easily be overdone.
03-11-2008, 09:18 AM   #13
Veteran Member
Buddha Jones's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,587
Original Poster
Thanks for all the replies. The reason that I asked this question is because I am heading to the Grand Canyon in a few weeks and I wanted to go there prepared. And what I am getting from the majority here is that HDR is my best option to getting everything right. I have never shot an HDR, so this is going to be fun.
03-11-2008, 10:06 AM   #14
New Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Halmstad - Sweden
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 7
I would go for a filter system. A more solid feeling and no hazzle playing with HDR-software. Lets say you get like 50 good photos from your journey. You will then be forced to post process every single one of them and play with HDR-software to get a better dynamic range. There is a big possibility that the images will get an artificial look if you are not used to manipulating HDR.

Maby I'm saying this because I'm waiting for my Cokin-set to arrive at my doorstep, who knows. But one thing i know is that producing good looking HDR's is a pain in the buttocks...
03-11-2008, 10:19 AM   #15
Veteran Member
jshurak's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: philadelphia
Posts: 626
QuoteOriginally posted by Buddha Jones Quote
Thanks for all the replies. The reason that I asked this question is because I am heading to the Grand Canyon in a few weeks and I wanted to go there prepared. And what I am getting from the majority here is that HDR is my best option to getting everything right. I have never shot an HDR, so this is going to be fun.

Buddha, please keep in mind that typically 1 HDR images is produced from atleast 3 images. You could use 1 RAW file to generate the three exposure's, but the results aren't as good. My suggestion would be to go out right now and start creating some HDR images, because, as Amnell pointed out, there is a lot of post processing involved.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, filter vs, photography
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which freeware photoshop alternative can apply photoshop plugins in batch raider Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 1 01-28-2010 10:54 PM
Opening Photoshop-saved RAW in Photoshop jzietman Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 4 12-09-2009 10:49 PM
Mediflight Photoshop filter fun - Topaz mwcfire Post Your Photos! 3 05-08-2009 07:51 AM
neutral density filter in Photoshop? canadave Photographic Technique 3 05-26-2008 07:27 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:54 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top