Long exposure help?

Bcrary3 · 05-27-2013, 07:47 PM

Okay, so, what I am trying to do (as I haven't done it in forever) is long exposures! I know it's a neat trick especially with water and the sky, however, I'd also like to do it in more places than where just those two things are present. Now, I know the basics, basically crank your aperture way up, go into bulb mode, turn ISO as far down as possible, I know. But here is the problem.. I am too tight of a budget presently to invest in and ND filters, is there any way to get around this? Could I get the same results by going to maybe -3EV? Any suggestions or tips?
Thanks!

VoiceOfReason · 05-27-2013, 08:00 PM

ND filters are best, though I have gotten decent results by cranking the ISO down, the aperture as closed as it would go, then during daylight up to a couple seconds, then tweaking in photoshop. Bulb mode in daylight? Not happening without ND filters.

I take that back about a couple seconds. Here's one where I did it for 1/3 second and blew the sky completely. Hey, I was just learning! The exif info is on the page on the right and down a little.

Helps if I post the link...

http://voice0freason.deviantart.com/art/Frozen-in-Time-202348371

**patrick9** · 05-27-2013, 08:02 PM

.Shoot at night . I assume you have a tripod

Bcrary3 · 05-27-2013, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by patrick9

.Shoot at night . I assume you have a tripod

I do have a tripod.

If I were to get some (maybe cheap) Cokin ND filters, what density would be best? (I wouldn't get a holder for them, I'd just hold them by hand. Too many different sized lenses haha)

manacho2005 · 05-27-2013, 08:12 PM

Stitching multiple (semi-long) exposures is a good way to avoid ND filters.

**patrick9** · 05-27-2013, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by Bcrary3

If I were to get some (maybe cheap) Cokin ND filters, what density would be best? (I wouldn't get a holder for them, I'd just hold them by hand. Too many different sized lenses haha)

The only one I have is an ND8 You might also consider getting one that fits your largest lens filter size the getting step down rings. they are fairly inexpensive.

CheepShot · 05-27-2013, 08:18 PM

Smoke an old UV filter with a candle. :-)

Bcrary3 · 05-27-2013, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by patrick9

The only one I have is an ND8 You might also consider getting one that fits your largest lens filter size the getting step down rings. they are fairly inexpensive.

That'd be an awful lot of step down rings. Haha (Going from 77mm down to 49mm) Now out of the question though.
I was thinking something like maybe a 3.0 density filter (10 stops) would be good enough?

**jatrax** · 05-27-2013, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by Bcrary3

I was thinking something like maybe a 3.0 density filter (10 stops) would be good enough?

10 stops is extreme and very expensive. Amazon.com: Hoya 77mm Neutral Density ND-400 HMC Filter: Camera & Photo

For dreamy waterfalls and similar things ND8 is good, that's 3 stops. Combine that with a CPL and you can do most any waterfall.

If you do want 10 stops cheap try a welding supply house and ask about the glass from a welders mask. I have a friend who uses one to track where the sun is behind clouds when setting up his camera. We experimented and compared his glass to my ND400 and found his glass was roughly 8 - 10 stops. Be aware that this glass WILL impart a color cast. Whether you can correct that or not I have no idea. You might be able to find one at a thrift shop or pawn shop for next to nothing.

But honestly check ebay for a set of ND filters 2x, 4x and 8x. They are not that expensive. All of mine all 49mm which means they only get used on the 49mm lenses, but so what? If I'm going to use the ND's then I use a lens that they fit on. Except for the ND400 I got them all used for next to nothing with other stuff I bought. They are likely as old as I am but they still work great.

Wired · 05-27-2013, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by patrick9

The only one I have is an ND8 You might also consider getting one that fits your largest lens filter size the getting step down rings. they are fairly inexpensive.

This is what I did. I grabbed two for my two most common lenses (DA*50-135, FA 43/77) and then just stepping rims from there.

The other thing I did was get promaster variable ND filters. Not too much cash ($80 for the DA*50-135 mount one, and $60 for the smaller one) and have been more than happy with them. They give fantastic control over how much light you want to stop, and the image quality is still pretty solid. I really like the Promaster filters, great value for the money, metal rings, and if you go for the "pro" series there is no flex and they feel really solid...almost like B&W filters...but for a fraction of the cost. The pro line also includes a lifetime unlimited warranty. Seriously... I dropped my K5/DA*55 and shattered the filter (lens was AOK, probably the only thing that saved the lens to be honest. camera had a broken LCD screen) and they replaced the filter no charge.

I'd say if you can find a Promaster variable ND, get it.

Culture · 05-27-2013, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by Bcrary3

Okay, so, what I am trying to do (as I haven't done it in forever) is long exposures! I know it's a neat trick especially with water and the sky, however, I'd also like to do it in more places than where just those two things are present. Now, I know the basics, basically crank your aperture way up, go into bulb mode, turn ISO as far down as possible, I know. But here is the problem.. I am too tight of a budget presently to invest in and ND filters, is there any way to get around this? Could I get the same results by going to maybe -3EV? Any suggestions or tips?
Thanks!

I had the same problem you do. So started to look around what will be cheapest way to test long exposure.

Answer is welding glass. It is very cheap. I got one for less than about 3 euros.

Check out this thread I started yesterday because of the results.

Welding glass club

You can post you images when you have been successful.

Culture

**patrick9** · 05-28-2013, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by Bcrary3

That'd be an awful lot of step down rings. Haha (Going from 77mm down to 49mm) Now out of the question though.

That would only be 1 ring.
How well would a variable ND work with that big of step down?
All of my filters are 62mm I won them on E-bay for $3 . There is an assortment of color filters, A 6 point star. and my ND8 All new from a store closing. All Hoya and Tiffen. I got the 62mm batch because that is my largest lens. Now I just need to get the step down rings. I have been saying that for a year now

Bcrary3 · 05-28-2013, 06:20 PM

I think what I'll end up doing is going over to my local welding supply store and seeing if I can buy a piece of welding glass (likely shade #12) and seeing how well that works out.

twitch · 05-28-2013, 07:57 PM

I use a 49mm 10 stop B+W filter for long expoosures. They are not "extreme" or even expensive. They're ~$55 and are the minimum strength I need to do long exposures in daylight.

I've got about 50 or so long exposure photos taken with that filter in this flickr set Long Exposures - a set on Flickr

**jatrax** · 05-28-2013, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by twitch

They are not "extreme" or even expensive.

They are expensive when the OP stated there was no budget and was looking for a cheap solution. 'expensive' is relative. I have a Hoya ND400 in 49mm and paid about $75 for mine. I felt that a reasonable cost but would not recommend it to someone who is just starting and has no budget.

And yes 10 stops is extreme. I have seen your work and it is remarkable, and if you need 10 stops to get there, wonderful. I still would not recommend a 10 stop for someone with no budget and no experience at long exposures. Starting with a 3 stop will allow good results and to gain experience in how long exposures work.

But anyway it sounds like the OP is going to try the welding glass route and I think that will be in the 8 - 10 stop range so I hope they post back and let us know how it works.

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05-27-2013, 07:47 PM	#1
Bcrary3 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Gallery Posts: 391	Long exposure help? Okay, so, what I am trying to do (as I haven't done it in forever) is long exposures! I know it's a neat trick especially with water and the sky, however, I'd also like to do it in more places than where just those two things are present. Now, I know the basics, basically crank your aperture way up, go into bulb mode, turn ISO as far down as possible, I know. But here is the problem.. I am too tight of a budget presently to invest in and ND filters, is there any way to get around this? Could I get the same results by going to maybe -3EV? Any suggestions or tips? Thanks!

05-27-2013, 08:00 PM	#2
VoiceOfReason Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mishawaka IN area Photos: Albums Posts: 6,124	ND filters are best, though I have gotten decent results by cranking the ISO down, the aperture as closed as it would go, then during daylight up to a couple seconds, then tweaking in photoshop. Bulb mode in daylight? Not happening without ND filters. I take that back about a couple seconds. Here's one where I did it for 1/3 second and blew the sky completely. Hey, I was just learning! The exif info is on the page on the right and down a little. Helps if I post the link... http://voice0freason.deviantart.com/art/Frozen-in-Time-202348371

05-27-2013, 08:02 PM	#3
patrick9 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Murfreesboro Tennessee Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,458	.Shoot at night . I assume you have a tripod

05-27-2013, 08:04 PM	#4
Bcrary3 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Gallery Posts: 391 Original Poster	Originally posted by patrick9 .Shoot at night . I assume you have a tripod I do have a tripod. If I were to get some (maybe cheap) Cokin ND filters, what density would be best? (I wouldn't get a holder for them, I'd just hold them by hand. Too many different sized lenses haha)

05-27-2013, 08:12 PM	#5
manacho2005 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Red Oak, TX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 462	Stitching multiple (semi-long) exposures is a good way to avoid ND filters.

05-27-2013, 08:15 PM	#6
patrick9 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Murfreesboro Tennessee Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,458	Originally posted by Bcrary3 If I were to get some (maybe cheap) Cokin ND filters, what density would be best? (I wouldn't get a holder for them, I'd just hold them by hand. Too many different sized lenses haha) The only one I have is an ND8 You might also consider getting one that fits your largest lens filter size the getting step down rings. they are fairly inexpensive.

05-27-2013, 08:18 PM	#7
CheepShot Forum Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 95	Smoke an old UV filter with a candle. :-)

05-27-2013, 08:19 PM	#8
Bcrary3 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Gallery Posts: 391 Original Poster	Originally posted by patrick9 The only one I have is an ND8 You might also consider getting one that fits your largest lens filter size the getting step down rings. they are fairly inexpensive. That'd be an awful lot of step down rings. Haha (Going from 77mm down to 49mm) Now out of the question though. I was thinking something like maybe a 3.0 density filter (10 stops) would be good enough?

05-27-2013, 08:49 PM	#9
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by Bcrary3 I was thinking something like maybe a 3.0 density filter (10 stops) would be good enough? 10 stops is extreme and very expensive. Amazon.com: Hoya 77mm Neutral Density ND-400 HMC Filter: Camera & Photo For dreamy waterfalls and similar things ND8 is good, that's 3 stops. Combine that with a CPL and you can do most any waterfall. If you do want 10 stops cheap try a welding supply house and ask about the glass from a welders mask. I have a friend who uses one to track where the sun is behind clouds when setting up his camera. We experimented and compared his glass to my ND400 and found his glass was roughly 8 - 10 stops. Be aware that this glass WILL impart a color cast. Whether you can correct that or not I have no idea. You might be able to find one at a thrift shop or pawn shop for next to nothing. But honestly check ebay for a set of ND filters 2x, 4x and 8x. They are not that expensive. All of mine all 49mm which means they only get used on the 49mm lenses, but so what? If I'm going to use the ND's then I use a lens that they fit on. Except for the ND400 I got them all used for next to nothing with other stuff I bought. They are likely as old as I am but they still work great.

05-27-2013, 10:11 PM	#10
Wired Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,519	Originally posted by patrick9 The only one I have is an ND8 You might also consider getting one that fits your largest lens filter size the getting step down rings. they are fairly inexpensive. This is what I did. I grabbed two for my two most common lenses (DA50-135, FA 43/77) and then just stepping rims from there. The other thing I did was get promaster variable ND filters. Not too much cash ($80 for the DA50-135 mount one, and $60 for the smaller one) and have been more than happy with them. They give fantastic control over how much light you want to stop, and the image quality is still pretty solid. I really like the Promaster filters, great value for the money, metal rings, and if you go for the "pro" series there is no flex and they feel really solid...almost like B&W filters...but for a fraction of the cost. The pro line also includes a lifetime unlimited warranty. Seriously... I dropped my K5/DA*55 and shattered the filter (lens was AOK, probably the only thing that saved the lens to be honest. camera had a broken LCD screen) and they replaced the filter no charge. I'd say if you can find a Promaster variable ND, get it.

05-27-2013, 10:11 PM	#11
Culture Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Vaasa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 818	Originally posted by Bcrary3 Okay, so, what I am trying to do (as I haven't done it in forever) is long exposures! I know it's a neat trick especially with water and the sky, however, I'd also like to do it in more places than where just those two things are present. Now, I know the basics, basically crank your aperture way up, go into bulb mode, turn ISO as far down as possible, I know. But here is the problem.. I am too tight of a budget presently to invest in and ND filters, is there any way to get around this? Could I get the same results by going to maybe -3EV? Any suggestions or tips? Thanks! I had the same problem you do. So started to look around what will be cheapest way to test long exposure. Answer is welding glass. It is very cheap. I got one for less than about 3 euros. Check out this thread I started yesterday because of the results. Welding glass club You can post you images when you have been successful. Culture

05-28-2013, 06:17 PM	#12
patrick9 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Murfreesboro Tennessee Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,458	Originally posted by Bcrary3 That'd be an awful lot of step down rings. Haha (Going from 77mm down to 49mm) Now out of the question though. That would only be 1 ring. How well would a variable ND work with that big of step down? All of my filters are 62mm I won them on E-bay for $3 . There is an assortment of color filters, A 6 point star. and my ND8 All new from a store closing. All Hoya and Tiffen. I got the 62mm batch because that is my largest lens. Now I just need to get the step down rings. I have been saying that for a year now

05-28-2013, 06:20 PM	#13
Bcrary3 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Gallery Posts: 391 Original Poster	I think what I'll end up doing is going over to my local welding supply store and seeing if I can buy a piece of welding glass (likely shade #12) and seeing how well that works out.

05-28-2013, 07:57 PM	#14
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	I use a 49mm 10 stop B+W filter for long expoosures. They are not "extreme" or even expensive. They're ~$55 and are the minimum strength I need to do long exposures in daylight. I've got about 50 or so long exposure photos taken with that filter in this flickr set Long Exposures - a set on Flickr

05-28-2013, 08:27 PM	#15
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by twitch They are not "extreme" or even expensive. They are expensive when the OP stated there was no budget and was looking for a cheap solution. 'expensive' is relative. I have a Hoya ND400 in 49mm and paid about $75 for mine. I felt that a reasonable cost but would not recommend it to someone who is just starting and has no budget. And yes 10 stops is extreme. I have seen your work and it is remarkable, and if you need 10 stops to get there, wonderful. I still would not recommend a 10 stop for someone with no budget and no experience at long exposures. Starting with a 3 stop will allow good results and to gain experience in how long exposures work. But anyway it sounds like the OP is going to try the welding glass route and I think that will be in the 8 - 10 stop range so I hope they post back and let us know how it works.