Micro - Not Macro Photography

**LaurenOE** · 07-12-2013, 03:35 PM - **1 Like**

I've recently thought about getting into Micro photography. I guess there are two routes, as in add the camera to a microscope - which I have all the Pentax adapters to use a microscope - and the other route is via a bellows and a very rare Pentax Microscope/Royal thread adapter.

I picked up three basic objectives via eBay

Here I am using my ProMediaGear Katana Gimbal as a Microscope stand

Here is the left eye of George Washington's left eye from an American Dollar Bill

Un-cropped image using the 10x objective

Cropped image using the 10x objective

The bellows technique allows me to set up anywhere, and focus on anything, whereas if I use a Microscope proper, I have to use the Microscope stage and put things on there.

For all the "Micro" shooters, any tips on using the "Bellows" technique?

Old Man · 07-12-2013, 03:53 PM

I sure don't have any tips for you, but wish you well in doing it. I have a brand new, still in plastic, in the box, Pentax, Auto Bellows "A" Set. I have never used it, so I will be watching your thread for ideas.
I have been thinking about opening it up, but always just use extension tubes instead.

**LaurenOE** · 07-12-2013, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Old Man

I sure don't have any tips for you, but wish you well in doing it. I have a brand new, still in plastic, in the box, Pentax, Auto Bellows "A" Set. I have never used it, so I will be watching your thread for ideas.
I have been thinking about opening it up, but always just use extension tubes instead.

If you ever want to sell it, let me know - I'd love to have another!
I LOVE my bellows! I try and use it all the time!
Granted, the extension tubes are easy, and I use them too, but the bellows gives so much more flexibility!

I don't see much Micro photography out on the web without using a microscope, so I hope to get some folks in here talking about this technique!

I'm brand new in this technique!

Old Man · 07-12-2013, 04:34 PM

That's me too. I have not dabbled into using a microscope lens for taking pics, but I know there are a lot of people doing it.
I had a chance several times to pickup the adapters and just never did it. Pentax made a lot of accessories back in the day. I have a lot of them, but some I wish I had, I don't have. Never thought I would have a use for them.
I am going to keep an eye on this thread, maybe someone can school me.

Not a Number · 07-12-2013, 04:41 PM

Take a look at Ernie Cooper's blog on the subject. Even though he uses Olympus equipment he often uses microscope objectives. Olympus had an adapter for their bellows to RMS (one of the standards) thread objectives. He'll has all sorts of tips on lighting, focusing abd staging.

macrocritters | What's a nice bug like you doing in a place like this…?

And the forums on Photomacrograpy.net covers the subject too.
www.photomacrography.net...Front Page

I did at one time find either an RMS to K mount or an RMS to T-mount adapter as I was looking into this myself. However having no budget to work with that's as far as I got.

**gofour3** · 07-12-2013, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by LaurenOE

If you ever want to sell it, let me know - I'd love to have another!
I LOVE my bellows! I try and use it all the time!
Granted, the extension tubes are easy, and I use them too, but the bellows gives so much more flexibility!

I don't see much Micro photography out on the web without using a microscope, so I hope to get some folks in here talking about this technique!

I'm brand new in this technique!

If you are using a bellows the K100/4 Bellows lens is a good idea. It has no focusing ring, as you use the bellows to adjust. When doing more than 1:1 magnification it’s a good idea to reverse your lens, so you will need the Pentax 49mm or 52mm reverse adapter. My best lens for reversing is a K28/3.5, you can get up to 6.72x magnification. It gets really dark in the cameras viewfinder so a magnifier also helps focusing

Phil.

**crewl1** · 07-12-2013, 04:52 PM - **1 Like**

Have you tried putting the Q on the back end instead of the K-5?

Not a Number · 07-12-2013, 04:57 PM - **1 Like**

Here's the relevant post from Ernie Cooper's blog

Image stacking: macro photograph of a fruit fly using a yogurt container white box | macrocritters

**LaurenOE** · 07-12-2013, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

Take a look at Ernie Cooper's blog on the subject. Even though he uses Olympus equipment he often uses microscope objectives. Olympus had an adapter for their bellows to RMS (one of the standards) thread objectives. He'll has all sorts of tips on lighting, focusing abd staging.

macrocritters | What's a nice bug like you doing in a place like this…?

And the forums on Photomacrograpy.net covers the subject too.
www.photomacrography.net...Front Page

I did at one time find either an RMS to K mount or an RMS to T-mount adapter as I was looking into this myself. However having no budget to work with that's as far as I got.

Cool!

Originally posted by gofour3

If you are using a bellows the K100/4 Bellows lens is a good idea. It has no focusing ring, as you use the bellows to adjust. When doing more than 1:1 magnification it’s a good idea to reverse your lens, so you will need the Pentax 49mm or 52mm reverse adapter. My best lens for reversing is a K28/3.5, you can get up to 6.72x magnification. It gets really dark in the cameras viewfinder so a magnifier also helps focusing

Phil.

I've got all the goodies for Macro work, no problem there. I'm trying to go micro, as in using microscope objectives and going super small.

Originally posted by crewl1

Have you tried putting the Q on the back end instead of the K-5?

LOL. The Q. Maybe I will give it a go when I settle into the K5 workflow. The K5 with it's dynamic range and IQ is very very nice right now. Plus, I can use my right angle adapter on the K5.

**jford** · 07-12-2013, 05:52 PM

The printed version of "The Amateur Scientist's Handbook" contains a chapter on photomicrography(?). While it's geared towards building your own system, and film, it probably has some useful advice on the subject side, if not the camera side. Good luck.

**gofour3** · 07-12-2013, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by LaurenOE

I've got all the goodies for Macro work, no problem there. I'm trying to go micro, as in using microscope objectives and going super small.

OK you want real close, then you need the Pentax microscope adapter. The problem is finding a microscope that fits the adapter.

Phil.

carrrlangas · 07-12-2013, 11:45 PM

ok, show us more examples!

**baro-nite** · 07-13-2013, 05:04 AM - **1 Like**

Photomacrography.net, linked above, is the place to go to learn all about the options, equipment, and techniques involved.

Note that newer microscope objectives are infinity-corrected, requiring a converging lens (AKA "tube lens") to produce good results. The converging lens can be an ordinary camera lens. Objectives come in a bewildering array of specifications, and most types are not particularly well suited to being used directly attached to a camera.

Older microscope objectives can indeed be used on a bellows.

In either case, once magnifications go above 5x or so, DOF is so shallow that large image stacks are needed to deal with most subjects. So you need a very stable rig with fine control of camera and/or subject movements.

For up to 4x you can get good results with a reversed lens. There are very few lenses that allow you to go beyond 4x to good effect, because of the problem of diffraction. As Phil has recommended elsewhere, the K28/3.5 is outstanding reversed. It is sharp just one click down from f/3.5, and the shorter FL allows high magnifications with moderate amounts of extension.

I have a 10x rig, using a 10x objective (infinity-corrected) on a 200mm converging lens (DA*200). Or I'll put the objective on a 150mm lens (M75-150) for 7.5x, as here:

This is the eye-spot from the wing of a Luna Moth, stack of 85 shots.

**LaurenOE** · 07-13-2013, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by gofour3

OK you want real close, then you need the Pentax microscope adapter. The problem is finding a microscope that fits the adapter.

Phil.

Yep. I already have that adapter...as that is the microscope proper method.
I'm coming at it from a different angle - the bellows technique which Pentax didn't really push.

**LaurenOE** · 07-13-2013, 06:23 AM

Originally posted by baro-nite

Photomacrography.net, linked above, is the place to go to learn all about the options, equipment, and techniques involved.

Note that newer microscope objectives are infinity-corrected, requiring a converging lens (AKA "tube lens") to produce good results. The converging lens can be an ordinary camera lens. Objectives come in a bewildering array of specifications, and most types are not particularly well suited to being used directly attached to a camera.

Older microscope objectives can indeed be used on a bellows.

In either case, once magnifications go above 5x or so, DOF is so shallow that large image stacks are needed to deal with most subjects. So you need a very stable rig with fine control of camera and/or subject movements.

For up to 4x you can get good results with a reversed lens. There are very few lenses that allow you to go beyond 4x to good effect, because of the problem of diffraction. As Phil has recommended elsewhere, the K28/3.5 is outstanding reversed. It is sharp just one click down from f/3.5, and the shorter FL allows high magnifications with moderate amounts of extension.

I have a 10x rig, using a 10x objective (infinity-corrected) on a 200mm converging lens (DA*200). Or I'll put the objective on a 150mm lens (M75-150) for 7.5x, as here:

This is the eye-spot from the wing of a Luna Moth, stack of 85 shots.

Great shot!

I guess I got lucky then, because the objectives I got off eBay work great with the Pentax K to RMS adapter and the bellows!

I've got some more modifications to do, as using the 40x objective requires a ton more light.

07-12-2013, 03:35 PM - 1 Like	#1
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	Micro - Not Macro Photography I've recently thought about getting into Micro photography. I guess there are two routes, as in add the camera to a microscope - which I have all the Pentax adapters to use a microscope - and the other route is via a bellows and a very rare Pentax Microscope/Royal thread adapter. I picked up three basic objectives via eBay Here I am using my ProMediaGear Katana Gimbal as a Microscope stand Here is the left eye of George Washington's left eye from an American Dollar Bill Un-cropped image using the 10x objective Cropped image using the 10x objective The bellows technique allows me to set up anywhere, and focus on anything, whereas if I use a Microscope proper, I have to use the Microscope stage and put things on there. For all the "Micro" shooters, any tips on using the "Bellows" technique?

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07-12-2013, 03:53 PM	#2
Old Man Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Indiana Posts: 171	I sure don't have any tips for you, but wish you well in doing it. I have a brand new, still in plastic, in the box, Pentax, Auto Bellows "A" Set. I have never used it, so I will be watching your thread for ideas. I have been thinking about opening it up, but always just use extension tubes instead.

07-12-2013, 04:00 PM	#3
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690 Original Poster	Originally posted by Old Man I sure don't have any tips for you, but wish you well in doing it. I have a brand new, still in plastic, in the box, Pentax, Auto Bellows "A" Set. I have never used it, so I will be watching your thread for ideas. I have been thinking about opening it up, but always just use extension tubes instead. If you ever want to sell it, let me know - I'd love to have another! I LOVE my bellows! I try and use it all the time! Granted, the extension tubes are easy, and I use them too, but the bellows gives so much more flexibility! I don't see much Micro photography out on the web without using a microscope, so I hope to get some folks in here talking about this technique! I'm brand new in this technique!

07-12-2013, 04:34 PM	#4
Old Man Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Indiana Posts: 171	That's me too. I have not dabbled into using a microscope lens for taking pics, but I know there are a lot of people doing it. I had a chance several times to pickup the adapters and just never did it. Pentax made a lot of accessories back in the day. I have a lot of them, but some I wish I had, I don't have. Never thought I would have a use for them. I am going to keep an eye on this thread, maybe someone can school me.

07-12-2013, 04:41 PM	#5
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Take a look at Ernie Cooper's blog on the subject. Even though he uses Olympus equipment he often uses microscope objectives. Olympus had an adapter for their bellows to RMS (one of the standards) thread objectives. He'll has all sorts of tips on lighting, focusing abd staging. macrocritters \| What's a nice bug like you doing in a place like this…? And the forums on Photomacrograpy.net covers the subject too. www.photomacrography.net...Front Page I did at one time find either an RMS to K mount or an RMS to T-mount adapter as I was looking into this myself. However having no budget to work with that's as far as I got.

07-12-2013, 04:48 PM	#6
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,090	Originally posted by LaurenOE If you ever want to sell it, let me know - I'd love to have another! I LOVE my bellows! I try and use it all the time! Granted, the extension tubes are easy, and I use them too, but the bellows gives so much more flexibility! I don't see much Micro photography out on the web without using a microscope, so I hope to get some folks in here talking about this technique! I'm brand new in this technique! If you are using a bellows the K100/4 Bellows lens is a good idea. It has no focusing ring, as you use the bellows to adjust. When doing more than 1:1 magnification it’s a good idea to reverse your lens, so you will need the Pentax 49mm or 52mm reverse adapter. My best lens for reversing is a K28/3.5, you can get up to 6.72x magnification. It gets really dark in the cameras viewfinder so a magnifier also helps focusing Phil.

07-12-2013, 04:52 PM - 1 Like	#7
crewl1 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,807	Have you tried putting the Q on the back end instead of the K-5?

07-12-2013, 04:57 PM - 1 Like	#8
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Here's the relevant post from Ernie Cooper's blog Image stacking: macro photograph of a fruit fly using a yogurt container white box \| macrocritters

07-12-2013, 05:07 PM	#9
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690 Original Poster	Originally posted by Not a Number Take a look at Ernie Cooper's blog on the subject. Even though he uses Olympus equipment he often uses microscope objectives. Olympus had an adapter for their bellows to RMS (one of the standards) thread objectives. He'll has all sorts of tips on lighting, focusing abd staging. macrocritters \| What's a nice bug like you doing in a place like this…? And the forums on Photomacrograpy.net covers the subject too. www.photomacrography.net...Front Page I did at one time find either an RMS to K mount or an RMS to T-mount adapter as I was looking into this myself. However having no budget to work with that's as far as I got. Cool! Originally posted by gofour3 If you are using a bellows the K100/4 Bellows lens is a good idea. It has no focusing ring, as you use the bellows to adjust. When doing more than 1:1 magnification it’s a good idea to reverse your lens, so you will need the Pentax 49mm or 52mm reverse adapter. My best lens for reversing is a K28/3.5, you can get up to 6.72x magnification. It gets really dark in the cameras viewfinder so a magnifier also helps focusing Phil. I've got all the goodies for Macro work, no problem there. I'm trying to go micro, as in using microscope objectives and going super small. Originally posted by crewl1 Have you tried putting the Q on the back end instead of the K-5? LOL. The Q. Maybe I will give it a go when I settle into the K5 workflow. The K5 with it's dynamic range and IQ is very very nice right now. Plus, I can use my right angle adapter on the K5.

07-12-2013, 05:52 PM	#10
jford Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Indiana PA USA Posts: 1,396	The printed version of "The Amateur Scientist's Handbook" contains a chapter on photomicrography(?). While it's geared towards building your own system, and film, it probably has some useful advice on the subject side, if not the camera side. Good luck.

07-12-2013, 11:45 PM	#12
carrrlangas Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Joensuu (Finland) Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,761	ok, show us more examples!

07-13-2013, 05:04 AM - 1 Like	#13
baro-nite Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,294	Photomacrography.net, linked above, is the place to go to learn all about the options, equipment, and techniques involved. Note that newer microscope objectives are infinity-corrected, requiring a converging lens (AKA "tube lens") to produce good results. The converging lens can be an ordinary camera lens. Objectives come in a bewildering array of specifications, and most types are not particularly well suited to being used directly attached to a camera. Older microscope objectives can indeed be used on a bellows. In either case, once magnifications go above 5x or so, DOF is so shallow that large image stacks are needed to deal with most subjects. So you need a very stable rig with fine control of camera and/or subject movements. For up to 4x you can get good results with a reversed lens. There are very few lenses that allow you to go beyond 4x to good effect, because of the problem of diffraction. As Phil has recommended elsewhere, the K28/3.5 is outstanding reversed. It is sharp just one click down from f/3.5, and the shorter FL allows high magnifications with moderate amounts of extension. I have a 10x rig, using a 10x objective (infinity-corrected) on a 200mm converging lens (DA*200). Or I'll put the objective on a 150mm lens (M75-150) for 7.5x, as here: This is the eye-spot from the wing of a Luna Moth, stack of 85 shots.

07-13-2013, 06:20 AM	#14
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690 Original Poster	Originally posted by gofour3 OK you want real close, then you need the Pentax microscope adapter. The problem is finding a microscope that fits the adapter. Phil. Yep. I already have that adapter...as that is the microscope proper method. I'm coming at it from a different angle - the bellows technique which Pentax didn't really push.

07-13-2013, 06:23 AM	#15
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690 Original Poster	Originally posted by baro-nite Photomacrography.net, linked above, is the place to go to learn all about the options, equipment, and techniques involved. Note that newer microscope objectives are infinity-corrected, requiring a converging lens (AKA "tube lens") to produce good results. The converging lens can be an ordinary camera lens. Objectives come in a bewildering array of specifications, and most types are not particularly well suited to being used directly attached to a camera. Older microscope objectives can indeed be used on a bellows. In either case, once magnifications go above 5x or so, DOF is so shallow that large image stacks are needed to deal with most subjects. So you need a very stable rig with fine control of camera and/or subject movements. For up to 4x you can get good results with a reversed lens. There are very few lenses that allow you to go beyond 4x to good effect, because of the problem of diffraction. As Phil has recommended elsewhere, the K28/3.5 is outstanding reversed. It is sharp just one click down from f/3.5, and the shorter FL allows high magnifications with moderate amounts of extension. I have a 10x rig, using a 10x objective (infinity-corrected) on a 200mm converging lens (DA*200). Or I'll put the objective on a 150mm lens (M75-150) for 7.5x, as here: This is the eye-spot from the wing of a Luna Moth, stack of 85 shots. Great shot! I guess I got lucky then, because the objectives I got off eBay work great with the Pentax K to RMS adapter and the bellows! I've got some more modifications to do, as using the 40x objective requires a ton more light.