[calicojack]

In 3 months, I will be taking photos at a god-daughter's wedding. I've suggested to her that I just be the "back up" photographer since I haven't seriously shot at a wedding in many years and actually am just getting back into serious photography after a point and shoot period. She insists that I be the primary photographer since she doesn't want "some stranger" doing it. So, the pressure is on me to get back up to speed quickly.
The wedding will be outdoors, on a gulf coast beach that I've never been to. The only thing I keep imagining is that strong sun shining down creating all those wonderful shadows. A wonderful creative photography situation, but as a wedding photographer I keep thinking racoon eyes, nose shadows, extreme contrast situations. So now I have to get good at fill flash quickly.
The equipment that I have and will be using is: K10D, Sigma 17-70 (unless a DA`50-135 appears in my bag some how to supplement it), Pentax 360FGZ, Stroboframe Fip Bracket (Stroboframe | Quick Flip 350 Bracket | 310-635 | B&H Photo Video) (holds the flash further above the lens and flips for portrait position) with a 5P sync cord connecting the flash to the hot shoe, and a Lumiquest soft box (LumiQuest | SoftBox for Shoe-Mount Flashes | LQ-107 | B&H Photo) (5"X7", flash mounted). The soft box is supposed to cut the flash by about 1 - 1 1/2 stops.
Today, I put this whole kit together and tried some flash shots just to check functionality, light softness (never had the soft box on the 360 before), and exposures. I left the K10D in P mode, the flash in P-TTL and tried some interior shots. The shots I took are nowhere near the exposure extremes that I will experience at the wedding, but they looked OK.
I've done some web surfing to research "Fill" flash techniques and they all seem to say to just dial down the flash by 1 - 2 stops. Does adding my soft box with it's own exposure modification do the same thing? Am I missing something or is it really this simple? I'm expecting to try this out this Sunday on real subjects, in (hopefully) strong sun light and will try to post a few examples afterwards. In the mean time, I'm open to any and all advice I can get from you guys (and gals).
Thanks,
Brian

[flyer]

In very bright light, the softbox might not give you enough light to have a good fill flash exposure. Beside that, with P-TTL and camera on auto mode, you just let the camera handle everything and that's it. But you should use some minus flash compensation to avoid completely "washing out" the shadows and ending up with "flat"looking pictures. How much compensation depends on what you want your pictures to look like. Maybe you should experiment in full sunlight around midday with different compensation level to see how much "brightening" of the shadows you are getting. If the shadows are too dark and you try "opening"them in post, you sometime get too much noise in the shadows, so it is worth spending some time experimenting. There is nothing like getting it right in the camera. And you should not believe somebody who tells you to shoot RAW and then recover anything in Photoshop. You can get away with a lot of things and recover it in Photoshop, but you can't recover what was not recorded. Good luck and try to have some fun!!!

[wlachan]

I've done some web surfing to research "Fill" flash techniques and they all seem to say to just dial down the flash by 1 - 2 stops. Does adding my soft box with it's own exposure modification do the same thing? Am I missing something or is it really this simple? I'm expecting to try this out this Sunday on real subjects, in (hopefully) strong sun light and will try to post a few examples afterwards. In the mean time, I'm open to any and all advice I can get from you guys (and gals).
Thanks,
Brian

-1 to 2EV for daylight fill-flash is still valid if you use M or A flash. If the lens was set tp f16, the flash should be set to f8 (= -2EV). However, modern TTL flash systems have a mind of their own so you have to work out how they behave. Ideally any TTL flash system will compensate automatically with any add-on diffusers so they are not the same as flash compensation.

[OniFactor]

won't PTTL compensate for the light modifier on the flash? i'd say, if you've got the time, get a subject, get them out under some bright sun before the wedding, and make sure. another thing you make wanna look into is something like a gary phong light sphere..

[Jerry Thirsty]

One thing you might want to try out is the contrast control flash feature (see page 185 in the K10D manual). Basically, you use the external flash on the flash bracket as the master and either the pop-up flash or a second dedicated Pentax flash on the hot shoe adapter as the secondary. When set to the contrast control setting, the master and secondary will fire at a 2:1 ratio, basically giving you a main and a fill to soften the shadows from the main. I'm not sure how well it will work in sunlight or with a modifier like the Lumiquest though, so you'd better get to know it first before depending on it for real.

[calicojack]

One thing you might want to try out is the contrast control flash feature (see page 185 in the K10D manual). Basically, you use the external flash on the flash bracket as the master and either the pop-up flash or a second dedicated Pentax flash on the hot shoe adapter as the secondary. When set to the contrast control setting, the master and secondary will fire at a 2:1 ratio, basically giving you a main and a fill to soften the shadows from the main. I'm not sure how well it will work in sunlight or with a modifier like the Lumiquest though, so you'd better get to know it first before depending on it for real.

I'm trying to avoid the 2 flash type set ups. My wife will be with me at the wedding but I don't want to burden her with being my "portable flash stand" as I move about. I also don't intend to do a multiflash, studio type, of set up like many pro wedding photographers do. I'm more of a candid photographer (and the bride knows that). My intention is to use the sun as the main light and the camera flash as contrast control.

Onifactor suggested that P-TTL would compensate for the soft box factor.
That's what I was expecting. The too simple testing that I did shows a definate difference between bare flash and modified flash. Maybe it was just the softening effect (I haven't used a soft box in several years of point & shoot use)? Hopefully I'll learn more this Sunday while shooting during our family Easter gathering.

Thanks and keep 'em coming,
Brian

[flyer]

P-TTL will compensate for the softbox if the flash has enough power to send enough light to the subject. But, in bright conditions, this might not be the case. The 360 is a good unit, but not the most powerful one. You should experiment a little bit with the set up you want to use before the event to make sure it works the way you want. I may be wrong, but I don't think the 360 has enough power to use as fill flash during daylight with the softbox that will "soak" something like 60% of the power.

[calicojack]

<snip> I may be wrong, but I don't think the 360 has enough power to use as fill flash during daylight with the softbox that will "soak" something like 60% of the power.

What would you think about using the same set up, but without the soft box? I used to use the soft box solution for "normal" indoor flash at partys and the like, to avoid the harsh full flash appearance. That was using my Super Program and AF280T flash, all in TTL mode. I don't have really any experience at Fill Flash techniques, so my mind just automatically said "use the soft box". With the sun as primary and the 360 as fill, do you think the flash would be soft enough?
Brian

[flyer]

What would you think about using the same set up, but without the soft box? I used to use the soft box solution for "normal" indoor flash at partys and the like, to avoid the harsh full flash appearance. That was using my Super Program and AF280T flash, all in TTL mode. I don't have really any experience at Fill Flash techniques, so my mind just automatically said "use the soft box". With the sun as primary and the 360 as fill, do you think the flash would be soft enough?
Brian

I am pretty sure it would work better without the softbox when you are outside, especially if you use some minus flash compensation to open up the shadows, not completely eliminate them. If you eliminate the shadows completely, your pictures will look "flat" anyway. When you use fill flash outside, the main goal is to soften the shadows so you still have details in the dark areas.

[Jerry Thirsty]

I'm trying to avoid the 2 flash type set ups. My wife will be with me at the wedding but I don't want to burden her with being my "portable flash stand" as I move about. I also don't intend to do a multiflash, studio type, of set up like many pro wedding photographers do. I'm more of a candid photographer (and the bride knows that). My intention is to use the sun as the main light and the camera flash as contrast control.

Thanks and keep 'em coming,
Brian

I don't think you quite understand how the Contrast Control system works. You don't need anyone to carry a second flash, and you don't need to worry about balancing the two flashes; it's all internal. That having been said, I agree that it won't work the best with the Stroboframe, because that would put the two flashes one above the other (when shooting horizontal). I actually prefer a bracket more like the Hama ones, where the main flash is moved off to the side. When I've used the Contrast Control function in the past, I've used it straight (no bounce, no modifier) and it still looks pretty clean. Here's a couple of pics with and without it:

Pentax Contrast Control Flash Off.jpg

Pentax Contrast Control Flash On.jpg

In these, the main flash is an 330FTZ with no modifier, and the second flash is the pop-up. Keep in mind that if you are using the pop-up as the second flash, it's pretty weak so your distance will be limited to maybe 15 feet or so.

[afs760bf]

This will be a little tricky with the K10D and the 360. You're going to have to be close enough for the 360 to have any effect at all and then hope it doesn't have too much.

You won't know how strong or how obscured the sun will be until the day of the wedding, so you'll really need to take some test shots when you get to the scene.

I have the 540, and have found it to be somewhat inconsistent in how it applies flash, especially with bounce, but you won't have to worry about bounce. It does a pretty good job straight-on, and I agree with some of the others that you probably won't need the softbox. Hope for a nice partly-cloudy day and the sky will provide its own softbox.

[calicojack]

I don't think you quite understand how the Contrast Control system works.<snip> I agree that it won't work the best with the Stroboframe, because that would put the two flashes one above the other (when shooting horizontal). I actually prefer a bracket more like the Hama ones, where the main flash is moved off to the side.<snip>
In these, the main flash is an 330FTZ with no modifier, and the second flash is the pop-up. <snip>

Jerry,
I definately see the difference in your two shots. I'm amazed that by moving your main flash off to the side by a few inches like the Hama bracket does and using the built in flash as secondary, that you can get such a difference. Other examples that I've read about usually move the main flash to a 45` position (or there abouts). I think I have an old handle mount around somewhere that is similar to the Hama. I'll try to find it and see what I can do that way.
Brian

[calicojack]

This will be a little tricky with the K10D and the 360. <snip> I have the 540, and have found it to be somewhat inconsistent in how it applies flash, especially with bounce, <snip> Hope for a nice partly-cloudy day and the sky will provide its own softbox.

I had read about the inconsistancies with the 540, which is why I went with the 360.
If the sky produces the softbox, I hope the sand will provide a perfect reflector. It would make life so much easier.
Brian

[OniFactor]

another thing is you could lobby for is to have the bride and groom have their part of the ceremony under one of those white topped portable pavilions, lol

[calicojack]

another thing is you could lobby for is to have the bride and groom have their part of the ceremony under one of those white topped portable pavilions, lol

Don't lol too loud. There is going to be a white tent set up. But I bet the ceremony is out in the open, with the sun pointing right into my lens!
Brian