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03-29-2008, 07:57 AM   #46
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Strewth! Calm down Chako! In no way, shape or form am I attempting to suggest that the K10D is the ultimate, flawless camera - and I in no way allude to that in my extremely short post. You would have to be extraordinarily blind to think that whatever system you used had no drawbacks, but in response to your rejection of my comment I would have to reiterate that it is still trendy to knock Pentax. I did a lot of research online and in print when I was looking at what camera to buy and I was surprised by the amount of vitriol directed at Pentax by people who used other systems, I don't know why and I'm not going to hazard a guess (poorly informed assumptions are precisely what I'm complaining about).
Don't get me wrong, you are clearly far more experienced a photographer than I and I'm sure you're right that your pro-level Canon with it's $1000 lens outperforms the K10D - I'd be staggered if it didn't! Using a faster DA* lens might level the playing field slightly, again, I don't know.
All I'm saying is that with the amount of needless criticism levelled at Pentax I think it is acceptible for people to answer such criticism without being accused of blind brand loyalty.
I have (briefly) used similar level Canons and Nikons and can't say that I noticed any shortfall in the performance of the Pentax AF in comparison, this was not the sort of specialised photography you clearly do, it was mostly gulls on and above a river.

I still think that for the majority of cases my answer to the OP would be 'Nothing'. Sorry you disagree, but wouldn't the world be a boring place if we were all in perfect accord?

03-29-2008, 08:38 AM   #47
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Oh hehe. Sorry. I didn't mean to give you the impression that I was frothing at the mouth raving mad. My comment was not specifically pointed at you other then the first line. It was intended for all audiences.

Likewise, the 20D isn't pro level. In fact, I think the K10D is more of a pro camera then the 20D which is now old for a digital camera (I just don't see a need to upgrade it yet for what I do with it). I would also like to say I am no pro. I donít make my living from photography.

It just irks me that there are people on here who look at their Pentax and laud its capabilities to the high heavens. You get comments that the AF is fantastic, etc... My field experience tells me otherwise. Likewise, the Canon camera has its own issues. Truth be told, the K10D comes to my hand more then the Canon. I know what each camera is capable of, and much like a golfer selecting clubs, I select the right camera for the job at hand. I guess it would be far too much to ask of our fellow photographers to stop attacking each others camera choice and to enjoy the pursuit and purity of our art sans bigotry, snobbery, and other human foibles.

As for opinioned fanboys, I would have to agree. However, I see the same on this forum as on any other forum but to a lesser degree. I left most of the other Canon forums because of brandaholics. There is an even more fanatical group I like to call the "L" aholic who preach evangelistically and mindlessly pro expensive optics to grandmothers who want something to take photos of their grandkids. I don't understand such loyalty and vapidity to be truthful. I have always views my equipment as simply that...equipment to achieve a goal. shrugs.

Sorry about the confusion. I suppose my previous post could be construed as a rant of sorts..and that was not my intention.

Have a good day. Now if only the weather would get warmer sometime this century! My trigger finger is starting to get itchy.
03-29-2008, 10:10 AM   #48
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Fair comments all! I probably wouldn't have replied so strongly but it's pouring with rain and I have a stir-crazy two-year-old running around here driving me bonkers! Ha ha!

To be honest, one of the reasons I find the brand obsession so irksome is that within a given bracket, most of the models are so equally capable that it makes this 'one-upmanship' a bit confusing!

I know what you mean about getting an itchy trigger finger though. Hang on, raining... 72 environmental seals on the K10D... Hmm...

(sorry)
03-29-2008, 02:05 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chako Quote
Why is it that people in here seem to feel the need to defend Pentax on all counts. It is rather bothersome to take that stance. Pentax, like all camera makers, have their pros and cons. Nobody yet has come remotely close to making the perfect camera. When you buy into a system, you know that you also buy into the good and the bad of that system. Frankly, yes the Pentax AF isnít anywhere near as good as some of the other manufacturers (I am basing my experience on the K10D). This is a fact of life, get over it. The fact that the AF is good enough for most forms of photography is negligible if your main focus is on fast moving objects, which is why you still get people complaining about it. Simply stating a fact does not mean people are attacking a brand.
Well said, Chako.

03-29-2008, 02:20 PM   #50
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I Can Relate.

Hey All,
I am practically being sent to the gallows at the Fuji forum for practically being called a traitor. I have own 5 different models of Fuji digcams (all P&S models) and now that have seen better results at higher ISOs with the Pentax compared to the Fuji..I am now evil..LOL. I am new to Pentax DSLRs and so far I'm happy. I was also happy with my Fuji s8000fd until I saw it's limitations... (shooting pics at 3200 or 6400 ISO is a joke with em) Anyone who is member of a camera maker's forum is going to defend "their baby" and that will never change.

Barry
03-29-2008, 02:40 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vormulac Quote
As a K10D owner, in my (admittedly limited) experience, to answer the OP 'Nothing, it's just awfully trendy to knock Pentax'.
It does seem that way does'nt it. More so here than on other Pentax forums i frequent.

Having said that, i, like some on here, shoot two systems, Nikon. We seem to like to compare systems that are not matched, so i'll do the same.

I have several Nikons, D1, D1h, D2h and D200. Using the 70-210 F2.8 Vr lens, there is NO comparison. Its 1000 times faster than any of my Pentax AF lenses.

Now, compare my Nikon 18-70,a "consumer" lens, and we are pretty much on the same page with AF speed etc.

I use my Nikons mostly for my equine action work, they fit the bill a bit better than my Pentax gear, but, and a big but, the Pentax gear, works fine, yes a bit slower, but it works fine. I have many sales to prove it.

And that folks, is what i go on.

Dave
03-29-2008, 08:41 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chako Quote
...(snip) Why is it that people in here seem to feel the need to defend Pentax on all counts. It is rather bothersome to take that stance. Pentax, like all camera makers, have their pros and cons. Nobody yet has come remotely close to making the perfect camera. When you buy into a system, you know that you also buy into the good and the bad of that system. Frankly, yes the Pentax AF isnít anywhere near as good as some of the other manufacturers (I am basing my experience on the K10D). This is a fact of life, get over it. The fact that the AF is good enough for most forms of photography is negligible if your main focus is on fast moving objects, which is why you still get people complaining about it. Simply stating a fact does not mean people are attacking a brand.

You insist you're not attacking the brand, but your message paints Pentax AF performance solely in a bad light ("...the Pentax AF isnít anywhere near as good as some of the other manufacturers..."). Where is the complement to that saying Pentax AF is actually better than some other manufacturers. You provide several examples where you say the AF systems are quicker, without examples of AF systems which are slower. That lack of balance or proportion is what leads others to question or doubt your position. Many here are well aware Pentax AF is not the very best on the planet (we likely can't afford the very best), but are also aware it is not the worst either. Therefore, your efforts to point in one direction without acknowledging the other is troubling enough to some to well warrant a counter-argument.

stewart

03-29-2008, 08:44 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chako Quote
...(snip) It just irks me that there are people on here who look at their Pentax and laud its capabilities to the high heavens. You get comments that the AF is fantastic, etc... My field experience tells me otherwise. Likewise, the Canon camera has its own issues. Truth be told, the K10D comes to my hand more then the Canon. I know what each camera is capable of, and much like a golfer selecting clubs, I select the right camera for the job at hand. I guess it would be far too much to ask of our fellow photographers to stop attacking each others camera choice and to enjoy the pursuit and purity of our art sans bigotry, snobbery, and other human foibles. (snip)...

Of course, you're ranting about that in a thread where nobody has done anything of the sort. I looked back through the messages after reading the above. The OP said "SAFOX is just as good." That's not exactly lauding the capabilities to the high heavens. Several said AF was fast enough or good enough for themselves. That seems a bit short of fantastic. Two or three said Pentax AF performs well enough in relation to the price of camera. Not a lot of bigotry or snobbery there. Two or three said they personally see nothing wrong with the performance. No great human foibles in that. Given the actual comments versus your judgements of them, it appears the only comments you'll find acceptable (without judging them as hyperbole, bigotry, snobbery, human foibles, or whatever) are those which agree totally with you. Sadly, as hinted in the last message, few who view the topic with a greater sense of balance can truly do so.

stewart
03-29-2008, 09:46 PM   #54
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Now I regret starting this thread. I never wanted users to start bickering! Just to share my own personal experience with the Pentax AF and to draw a conclusion.
03-29-2008, 10:09 PM   #55
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I am only expressing my honest opinion from experience with two different cameras. I am only focusing on the AF system, as this is what this thread is about if you hadn't noticed.

Why should I compare something else to Pentax's AF system, when I do not have any personal experience with Olympus, or some other brand? Seems rather ridiculous don't you think? Oh wait, Pentax AF isn't all that bad...because it does beat brand X model Y! That leads to the path of mediocrity. Besides, I am not qualified to comment on gear I have no personal experience on. If I did, that would make me a liar, and worse, a fool.

You are making the mistake of thinking my comments are aimed at any specific individual in this forum, when they are not.

As for your thinking that I will only accept those opinions that only agree with me...well..wow. You sure think you know me don't you? I do have my opinions however, and I feel I was more then fair in my summation. What I must wonder is why you feel the need to attack me for mine? Obviously you disagree with me. However, it feels rather odd that you accuse me of being narrow minded and harsh after reading your scathing reply.

EDIT: Sorry ftpaddict. It was not my intent to argue with anyone. I was just expressing my opinions based on the gear I own. I may have added a little more then I should have. I just have a hard time understanding some of the general trends I see when photographers of all ilk get together and discuss gear. I guess its a group mentality that I don't prescribe to.
03-30-2008, 02:52 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chako Quote
I am only expressing my honest opinion from experience with two different cameras. ...(snip)... What I must wonder is why you feel the need to attack me for mine? ...(snip)...

You post two messages viciously assaulting those who defend Pentax, describing them as bigots, snobs, and so on, while dismissing their viewspoints as hyperbole, and then have the audacity to say people are attacking you. Incredible. Your messages in this thread are every bit as one-sided as anything I've seen from even the most extreme Pentax defenders, yet who here is calling you such names or dismissing your comments in the same manner? Notice I've said nothing to contradict your viewpoints about the cameras, or attack your camera choices, in spite of your efforts to now twist all this to imply that. I simply pointed to the lack of balance and questioned your characterizations of the others here.

Earlier, you said, "I guess it would be far too much to ask of our fellow photographers to stop attacking each others camera choice and to enjoy the pursuit and purity of our art sans bigotry, snobbery, and other human foibles." If I had said that, I would probably think it a good idea to practice what I preach. Enough said, so lets get back to discussing cameras without all the name calling and so on.

stewart
03-31-2008, 03:59 AM   #57
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I think you need to re-read my postings. Your interpretation of what I have said is way off base.

This is all I have to say to you, as I will not be dragged down into arguing with you on the internet. Are we not adults..or are we children?
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