[Wild Hog 4]

I'm hoping some fellow Pentaxians can help me. I have a friend who is going skiing in Japan and wants to know what are the ideal settings he should be using for taking photos of snow and ice landscapes. He envisages being in temps of minus 15 to minus 35 deg. I believe he will also be going to an area where there are frozen waterfalls. He has both Pentax and Sony DSLRs. As we don't have too much snow in this part of the world, and he lives on the Gold Coast, in Queensland, where there is never any snow, I though some of you learned folk out there, who have almost daily contact with the "white fluffy stuff" this time of year, may have some helpful info he could use. It would be much appreciated.

[mrNewt]

There is no such thing as ideal settings... it all depends on the light and subject... and surroundings.
Is it going to be morning, afternoon or night time!? Is it going to be sunny or cloudy!? Too many variables to consider to just say stick with this or that.

My recommendation will be to to leave it in AV mode so you can be in charge of your aperture - let the camera figure out the rest.

[Doundounba]

I'd like snow tips too. I think that under some circumstances, my camera tends to underexpose snowy landscapes and everything turns out grey rather than white. Fixable in post, but I could also dial in some exposure compensation if I could predict under which circumstances it would happen. I could watch my histograms in the field I guess. And there's a snow option in scene mode, but then I lose aperture control...

[normhead]

Chimping with the histogram turned on for review is a wonderful thing... if you're n too much of a hurry to do that, a two stop bracket is also a really good deal, 2 over, two under and even.

[dms]

Basically the camera tries to interpret the scene as a middle gray if it sees mostly white snow, which is about 10-20% reflectance (there is some misleading info on what is a middle gray--but for our purposes just realize:

fresh snow has a reflectance of about 90%--so you need to expose about 2 to 3 stops more than metering the snow(+2.5 e.v. may be a good starting point

older snow/ice is likely about 50% so 1 to 2 stops more than metering snow (+1.5 e.v. as starting point).

Actually this is all basic exposure theory--look up metering a black cat and a white background vs a white cat and black background.

[normhead]

Basically the camera tries to interpret the scene as a middle gray if it sees mostly white snow, which is about 10-20% reflectance (there is some misleading info on what is a middle gray--but for our purposes just realize:

fresh snow has a reflectance of about 90%--so you need to expose about 2 to 3 stops more than metering the snow(+2.5 e.v. may be a good starting point

older snow/ice is likely about 50% so 1 to 2 stops more than metering snow (+1.5 e.v. as starting point).

Actually this is all basic exposure theory--look up metering a black cat and a white background vs a white cat and black background.

Is there going to be a section on purple fringing?

[c.a.m]

Hi,

As mentioned above, winter and snow present a variety of lighting and environmental conditions. Here are several things that I keep in mind.

- Exposure. If white snow fills more than about a third of the picture, the exposure must be compensated by at least +1 EV. Typically, my snowscapes are captured with a compensation of +1.5 EV. This is necessary because the camera's metering system assumes that a real scene averages to a mid-grey value, so it underexposes a bright white scene.

- Contrast. A field of fresh snow offers little contrast at mid-day (at mid latitudes). I find that early morning and late afternoon are the best time of day for shooting snow scenes, when the low sun casts shadows or presents reflections off of snow crystals.

- Lens hoods. Just as important in winter as in other times of year.

- White balance and colour correction. (a) Shadows in snow typcially have a blue cast. (b) Auto white balance may not necessarily handle a snow scene well, depending on time of day and the colour temperature. Take a reference shot of a white-balance card.

There are other important considerations not related to taking the picture:

- Environmental temperature. A system of mittens or gloves is critical. In coldest weather (e.g., minus 20 degrees C), I use fingerless mittens with a light inner liner glove. It's also important to dress well using layered clothing and warm boots (as in any other outdoor winter activity).

- Battery. Battery energy capacity drops significantly at cold temperatures, so the camera's battery will not power as many shots as at, say, plus 20's C. Take an extra battery and store it in an inner clothing pocket to keep it warm.

- Moving gear outdoors and back indoors. Sudden changes in temperature can cause condensation on camera and lens surfaces and on internal parts. It's best to seal the gear in plastic 'zip-loc' bags and let it aclimatize to the new environment. This is especially important when moving from the cold outdoors to a warm and moist indoor location.

- I have experienced few problems with shooting my Pentax K-5 in temperatures as low as about minus 20 C. It's rated to minus 10, but operates well below that limit.

- Sunglasses or goggles. Outdoor enthusiasts often wear polarized sunglasses. However, they will mask the rear LCD display of most cameras.

Hope this helps.

- Craig

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Last edited by c.a.m; 01-02-2014 at 09:09 AM. Reason: technical correction.

[asp1880]

You could also set +2 EC (adjust to taste), spot meter the brightest snow, exposure lock, recompose and shoot.

Also, highlight protection works well for snow, it retains more detail and contrast in the bright (the snowy) parts of the scene.

Regards,
--Anders.

[wombat2go]

Too much snow here today, so I took the K-01 and ist ds and Pentax 3/21 spot meter out to see how they do.
The spot meter said iso 200 f/8 and 1/2000. That is EV 16 on the bright areas.
I use the cameras in spot meteing too
The K-01 was completely unable to meter, and grossly underexposed, maybe because I have that highlight limiter hurdy gurdy switched on.
The ist ds was OK, metering on the bright spots, iso 200 f/8 and 1/1500th and putting the highlights at a bit over 200/255

[dms]

wombat2go, it would clarify matters if you could indicate:
1) which of the 3 metering modes you were in?
2) where in the scene the cameras and spot meter were pointed at, and?
3) how old the snow was (it appears to be fresh/or only a day old and very fine--see 4)?
4) looking at the image at high resolution--do you see texture to the snow surface?
As two comment: the +2 tp 3 e.v. would not apply to metering if the vehicle was a significant part of the scene, and particularly if also the mode was matrix/multi-segment. [The easiest/most positive manner with snow is to only meter the brightest area of the snow where you still want some slight texture to register--i.e., not blown highlights.] And although the histogram does not show it--the snow does not appear to have any surface texture (which suggests it is even possibly overexposed?), but that may be the low resolution of image.

[dms]

Oh--and what were the specifics of the K01 that underexposed--including what exposure it was calling for?
Thanks, DMS

[wombat2go]

Hi Dms
1) I was in spot metering mode on both cameras. It is the mode I almost always use, with the cameras in M ,
2) spot metering on the bright areas, pressing the button, then move to recompose on the tractor without changing exposure ( in M mode) .
I just went out again with the K-01, with the highlight limiting set off, and it still can not meter the snow correctly. I don't know what's wrong there, anyway the K-01 works fine indoors which is where I usually use it.
I also tried K-01 in matrix mode while composed on the tractor scene, it under exposed that one too.

The ist ds is working as I expect it, exposing a bright area at about 200/255.

3) the snow is falling, sun is hazy and is 4) yes fluffy and its 14 F (-10 C) Only mad dogs, englishmen and wombats are outside messing around with exposure checks today!

[grhazelton]

Snow shooting is a good time to haul out that old incident light meter....

[Wild Hog 4]

Thanks everyone for all your input. My friend had a look at your postings the Forum and now has some helpful info to play around with when he goes to Japan. Thank you all, once again, for your help.

[Deedee]

Too much snow here today

Hi wombat2go

What version of Linux are you using?

Sorry for off-topic question. I am currently using Linux Mint 16 and loving it.

Cheers!